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How Do You Respond to Holocaust Deniers?

Dayton3

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I post at another online discussion board (PoliticalForum.com) and have an online diary there. It is a pretty nice forum with just one staggeringly huge exception. They allow holocaust deniers to post their crap on there. I've made repeated requests of the moderators/administrators to shut them down but I get the typical response of "It isn't our job to censor ideas".

I've been arguing with a couple of them and they demand evidence to support the claim that the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million or so other people. It has become apparent to me that nothing I post will be accepted as "evidence" and that their minds are utterly closed.

Yet for obvious reasons, I find it deeply troubling to allow that kind of stuff to go unanswered.

And yeah, for those of you who want to know I use the same avatar there as I do here.
 
Why do you feel a need to win them over? (Hint: you're not).
 
They allow holocaust deniers to post their crap on there. I've made repeated requests of the moderators/administrators to shut them down but I get the typical response of "It isn't our job to censor ideas".

I've been arguing with a couple of them and they demand evidence to support the claim that the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million or so other people. It has become apparent to me that nothing I post will be accepted as "evidence" and that their minds are utterly closed.


I laugh to think of their confusion.

"But look at his kickass avatar! Why does he believe the Holocaust happened?! Maybe he's trolling!"


ps. Holocaust deniers can post their crap here. They'll be scorned into the conspiracy subforum but they can post as much as they like.
 
It's like trying to convince flat-earthers that the Earth is round. Or anti-vaxxers that vaccines are actually a good thing. Or anti-moon-landing folk that we did indeed land on the moon.
 
Why do you feel a need to win them over? (Hint: you're not).

I don't want to win them over. I see that's a lost cause. I want them to STFU!!

I first encountered them when I defended Israel's actions during the U.S.S. Liberty Incident. Needless to say, they have no fondness for modern Israel either.
 
The guy with a Nazi avatar would like to know how to win over Holocaust deniers.

I demand a higher grade of trolling.
 
I don't want to win them over. I see that's a lost cause. I want them to STFU!!

I first encountered them when I defended Israel's actions during the U.S.S. Liberty Incident. Needless to say, they have no fondness for modern Israel either.

Why would you choose an avatar that is reminiscent of Nazis if you believe they murdered 6 million Jews?
 
Why would you choose an avatar that is reminiscent of Nazis if you believe they murdered 6 million Jews?

The avatar does not remind me of the Nazis. I found it online while looking for neo conservative symbols.

The Nazis murdering 6 million Jews is a cold hard fact. Few other historical facts are as written in stone as it is.
 
I post at another online discussion board (PoliticalForum.com) and have an online diary there. It is a pretty nice forum with just one staggeringly huge exception. They allow holocaust deniers to post their crap on there. I've made repeated requests of the moderators/administrators to shut them down but I get the typical response of "It isn't our job to censor ideas".

I've been arguing with a couple of them and they demand evidence to support the claim that the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million or so other people. It has become apparent to me that nothing I post will be accepted as "evidence" and that their minds are utterly closed.

Yet for obvious reasons, I find it deeply troubling to allow that kind of stuff to go unanswered.

And yeah, for those of you who want to know I use the same avatar there as I do here.

Evidence, evidence, evidence....
 
The avatar does not remind me of the Nazis.

It should. It is the Nazi eagle with an elephant superimposed on the Nazi emblem.

I found it online while looking for neo conservative symbols.

Should be simple to provide a link.

The Nazis murdering 6 million Jews is a cold hard fact. Few other historical facts are as written in stone as it is.

Correction - The Nazis murdering approximately 6 million Jews is a cold hard fact. How many exactly will get you tied down Holocaust denier rabbit holes.
 
The avatar does not remind me of the Nazis. I found it online while looking for neo conservative symbols.

The Nazis murdering 6 million Jews is a cold hard fact. Few other historical facts are as written in stone as it is.

It should since it's very similar to a Nazi symbol.
 
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The Nazis used an elephant?

Of course not but you have to admit the resemblance is striking.

y4Z28pSm.png
 
I don't want to win them over. I see that's a lost cause. I want them to STFU!!

I first encountered them when I defended Israel's actions during the U.S.S. Liberty Incident. Needless to say, they have no fondness for modern Israel either.

I have no fondness for modern Israel either, but that is because of their human rights abuses.

If you want to avoid Holocaust deniers, then you probably need to stay out of Holocaust threads.
 
I don't want to win them over. I see that's a lost cause. I want them to STFU!!

I first encountered them when I defended Israel's actions during the U.S.S. Liberty Incident. Needless to say, they have no fondness for modern Israel either.
What motivates you to engage the nut jobs in the first place? Surely you must understand that you’re not going to succeed in shutting them up, or down.

Unless you’re just having fun knocking down their deluded idiotic notions, like many here do with Trumpsters, why bother?
 
I post at another online discussion board (PoliticalForum.com) and have an online diary there. It is a pretty nice forum with just one staggeringly huge exception. They allow holocaust deniers to post their crap on there. I've made repeated requests of the moderators/administrators to shut them down but I get the typical response of "It isn't our job to censor ideas".

I've been arguing with a couple of them and they demand evidence to support the claim that the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million or so other people. It has become apparent to me that nothing I post will be accepted as "evidence" and that their minds are utterly closed.

Yet for obvious reasons, I find it deeply troubling to allow that kind of stuff to go unanswered.

And yeah, for those of you who want to know I use the same avatar there as I do here.

Welcome to the world of liberals, Democrats, and other rational people trying to discuss reality with The Donald followers. Or many pro-life supporters. Facts make no difference to a rigidly closed mind where dogma reigns and is blindly followed.




This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 
Yet for obvious reasons, I find it deeply troubling to allow that kind of stuff to go unanswered.

And yeah, for those of you who want to know I use the same avatar there as I do here.

There is no magic bullet here, but if you really give it the time and get to know them as individuals, it can be done.

De-escalate the conversation. Talk to them about really ordinary stuff. Maybe ask them for a little background about who they are (avoiding names and anything that could identity them offline obviously so they don't get doxxed) and how they reached their views. Maybe they read a book or saw something on YouTube.

Maybe crack a few jokes. Share a few Hitler memes or maybe some parodies of Hitler's rants from the movie Downfall. It's a good rule of thumb that if someone has no sense of humour, they are unreachable. being able to laugh at yourself means being able to admit you do things or can believe things that are absurd or counter-intuitive. That's a very solid starting point for identifying who is open and who is not.

Chances are they were not raised as holocaust deniers and went through a process of "learning" about these ideas or different conspiracy theories. When you start to see them more as people, they'll stop seeming so scary and it becomes something more profound and tragic.

I've been a communist for over a decade and the worst part of the conversation was feeling guilty and responsible for the deaths of 100 million people because I shared the same ideology as the perpetrators. You are forced to ask the question of whether you could have done these kind of things yourself (and yes, I probably could have when I was younger and didn't know what I was doing in a "wrong place, wrong time" kind of scenario). These kind of subjects are so unbelievably horrific that it is incredibly difficult to process, yet no-one on the other side gives you credit for what that actually involves a gratuitous, violent personal assault on your identity or your values. you share not simply the same ideas as some of the worst people who ever existed, but you share your humanity with them too. There is no hard line between good and evil and all we have is the choices we make. anyone and everyone could become involved in these kind of atrocities under the wrong circumstances and that is a shocking realisation.

The psychological process of accepting that level of horror, brutality, cruelty and sadism is really beyond anyone outside of a mental hospital and our popular account of history doesn't do justice to just how bad things really were. Believing the holocaust happened is not the same as understanding it or having lived through it. I watched several eyewitness accounts of the atrocities under the Khmer Rouge in cambodia ("Enemy of the People" is an extraordinarily daring documentary based on a series of interviews with perpetrators and with Noun Chea, "Brother Number 2", second only to Pol Pot ). But when you have invested so much of yourself and your worldview in the belief that the world is just, that people make rational decisions and are generally "good"- having to confront the fact that all of those foundational assumptions for our everyday interactions doesn't hold true, it's traumatic. When I learned that Communists had used gas vans against their own citizens, I basically just burst in to tears as that crossed the psychological threshold of "ok, you're no better than a Nazi now".

In the end, the difficulty of engaging with people who didn't understand my politics meant that my first girlfriend was a neo-nazi and a holocaust denier. She was involved in it for about a year. We got to know each other online and formed a bond because we were both outsiders and both highly political. We learned to laugh at each others beliefs and ourselves. But we had already both reached the tipping point where we knew it was BS even if we couldn't quite accept that. However, there was no where to go to talk about it, no kind of therapy available to unravel our identities from these beliefs, so we had to rely on each other to really come to terms with that kind of trauma. We are very good friends and she has left behind her neo-nazi days, is deeply ashamed and disgusted by her past antisemitism and has come out as bisexual and is more supportive of LGBT rights. I've come a long way, even if I was more deeply invested in communism and remain haunted by it to a point where it's never really left me (despite my best efforts). It takes an awful lot of love to forgive yourself for being involved with something like that and it remains the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
 
Of course not but you have to admit the resemblance is striking.

y4Z28pSm.png

It's this one. 1935 - 1945 Nazi Germany. He got his avatar from someone calling Republicans nazis.

Image from the wiki provided by someone above.

120px-Reichsadler_Deutsches_Reich_(1935–1945).svg.webp


Now that I look at them together, yours is the same but mirror.
 
Finally. It took forever.

Thank you.

Now.....

Are you personally tying the GOP with Hitler and the Nazis?


It's someone calling Republicans nazis.
 
Finally. It took forever.

Thank you.

Now.....

Are you personally tying the GOP with Hitler and the Nazis?

In my opinion the two are not related in any way whatsoever. In fact I get pissed off when I see President Trump compared to Hitler.
 
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