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How do you pardon a person that hasn't been convicted yet?

MrWonka

MrWonka

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There are talks of Trump attempting to pardon a bunch of his friends. In some cases, these are friends and associates who technically have not been convicted of anything.

It seems to me that the premise of a pardon would require that the person being pardoned has in fact been convicted of a crime before you can absolve them of said crime.

Furthermore, by pardoning someone of a crime are you not fully admitting that the evidence necessary to convict them in open court for said crime exists?

Has anybody ever actually been pre-emptively pardoned of something they had not been convicted or at least charged with?
I suppose if the person had at least been charged with a specific crime you could say that you're going to pardon them if convicted so just stop the trial,
but if they have not technically been tried yet it would seem that they could be re-charged without that violating double jeopardy.
 
The answer is, you issue the pardon. You throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. As respects protocol, Trump has no respect. In fact, pathologically, Trump has no respect for anything or anybody but for those he envies in their power, like autocrats and dictators.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump cannot issue a pardon for future crimes.
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But what about a crime committed in the past for which no charges have been brought?

So for example, let's say that Donald Jr actually had Jeffery Epstein murdered. There is no evidence of this, and he has not been charged with it. But if Trump knew his son had Epstein killed could he today pardon Donald Jr for the Murder of Jeffery Epstein just in case someone in the future ever found the evidence to prove it?
 
MrWonka said:
In some cases, these are friends and associates who technically have not been convicted of anything.
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Fixed that for you.

It seems to me that the premise of a pardon would require that the person being pardoned has in fact been convicted of a crime before you can absolve them of said crime.
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That's the problem with Twitter Law School. The professors are crap.

Furthermore, by pardoning someone of a crime are you not fully admitting that the evidence necessary to convict them in open court for said crime exists?
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No.

Has anybody ever actually been pre-emptively pardoned of something they had not been convicted or at least charged with?
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Richard Milhous Nixon.
 
In a country that claims no one is above the law, doesn't the Presidential Pardon toss that out the window? Michael Flynn, for instance, is now above the law because of his pardon, hell, he even pleaded guilty.
 
They are guilty.

They are just trying to figure out a way to avoid doing the time for their crimes.
 
The phrase "no one is above the law" bugs me because it has proven to be a fallacy. The Presidential Pardon is the same entitlement of the few as the gull to say "all men are created equal" while buying and selling slaves. The Pardon should only be used in certain extreme circumstances and it should have to be approved unanimously by the full legislative branch. meaning extremely difficult to obtain.
 
MrWonka said:
.

Has anybody ever actually been pre-emptively pardoned of something they had not been convicted or at least charged with?
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I'll look this up, but didn't President Gerald Ford preemptively pardon Richard Nixon when Nixon resigned?

EDIT: Ford did pardon Nixon for any crimes he (Nixon) may have committed.
 
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Non-specific pardons are not a new thing. There's common-law precedent going back hundreds of years, and US precedent as well.

But the pardon only works retroactively - Trump can't pardon anyone for future crimes.
 
element94 said:
In a country that claims no one is above the law, doesn't the Presidential Pardon toss that out the window? Michael Flynn, for instance, is now above the law because of his pardon, hell, he even pleaded guilty.
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He's still not "above the law" because the pardon recognizes Flynn is legally guilty. So, legally, Flynn was not absolved of guilt, his finding of guilty remains.
 
bluesmoke said:
He's still not "above the law" because the pardon recognizes Flynn is legally guilty. So, legally, Flynn was not absolved of guilt, his finding of guilty remains.
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What about the other part: carrying out of sentence? It's a sham perpetuated by the elites of government.
 
MrWonka said:
There are talks of Trump attempting to pardon a bunch of his friends. In some cases, these are friends and associates who technically have not been convicted of anything.

It seems to me that the premise of a pardon would require that the person being pardoned has in fact been convicted of a crime before you can absolve them of said crime.

Furthermore, by pardoning someone of a crime are you not fully admitting that the evidence necessary to convict them in open court for said crime exists?

Has anybody ever actually been pre-emptively pardoned of something they had not been convicted or at least charged with?
I suppose if the person had at least been charged with a specific crime you could say that you're going to pardon them if convicted so just stop the trial,
but if they have not technically been tried yet it would seem that they could be re-charged without that violating double jeopardy.
Click to expand...
The pardon reads that you are pardoned for all federal crimes you may be accused of from this date.
 
Cannot pardon for future crimes.

Specificity of pardons for any crimes that may have been tested has not been tested in court. So while Ford issued a general pardon for Nixon, we don't know if it actually would have been valid. Someone would have to indict Nixon and he'd have to fight it out in court.

Some constitutional scholarship indicates that an overly general pardon - one that did not specifically mention the crime(s) pardoned - should not stand up, as the framers intended the pardon power to work as it did in England. (See Blackstone's commentary, among others)

papers.ssrn.com

An Unappreciated Constraint on the President's Pardon Power

Most commentators assume that, except for the few textual limitations mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the President’s pardon power is effectively unlimited
papers.ssrn.com

 
element94 said:
What about the other part: carrying out of sentence? It's a sham perpetuated by the elites of government.
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Then, are all pardons a sham? Is a 10 years sentence pardoned after 5 yrs a sham? A pardon is of the sentence, not of the crime. That is the part that is being pardoned, the sentence. The sham is that there is little recourse. Congress cannot override a presidential veto. But then in these cases no way would 2/3 of Congress do so against Trump. So, any suggestion?
 
People talk shit about him way to much honestly.
 
There needs to be a change to our laws, Constitution if needed, to not allow pardons for any crimes that a person has not at the very least been charged with. That should be the bare minimum. You have to be charged with the crime, and then a pardon can be issued. Otherwise, tough cookies.
 
CaughtInThe said:
i'd say that Trump company CFO has Trump and family running scared.




www.wsj.com

Allen Weisselberg, Longtime Trump Organization CFO, Testified and Was Granted Immunity in Cohen Probe

Allen Weisselberg, President Trump’s longtime financial gatekeeper, was granted immunity by federal authorities and testified before a grand jury, the third confidant of Mr. Trump known to have provided information in a hush-money investigation that has implicated the president.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
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Yup. For a few yrs now, I think that guy has been in Trump's head like a time bomb ticking away.
 
bluesmoke said:
Yup. For a few yrs now, I think that guy has been in Trump's head like a time bomb ticking away.
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if he doesn't know where the dead bodies are then i'd be shocked.
 
CaughtInThe said:
if he doesn't know where the dead bodies are then i'd be shocked.
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That he'd be short of saying anything damning of Trump or criminal of himself, Weisselberg, that would otherwise locate those skeletons, I wouldn't be shocked.
 
Nixon was preemptively pardoned for all possible crimes committed during his administration, by Ford.

Precedent has been established.
 
roguenuke said:
There needs to be a change to our laws, Constitution if needed, to not allow pardons for any crimes that a person has not at the very least been charged with. That should be the bare minimum. You have to be charged with the crime, and then a pardon can be issued. Otherwise, tough cookies.
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No. This means a prosecutor can hold back charges in case of a pardon, then unleash the weight of the federal government again if one is granted.
 
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