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Wayne Jr said:
How can I show that the "unorganized militia" was not sent to Vietnam? Would you like me to google a comprehensive list of all units active in Vietnam and then note that none of them are the unorganized militia?

Maybe I could go to the un-organized militia's un-website and request an un-list of all their un-deployments?

Calling the "un-organized militia" an organization by claiming to be a member of it is like saying atheism is a religion.
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This claim: "Title 10 USC 311 facilitates mandatory conscription of civilians into the military, not the militia."
 
Rucker61 said:
This claim: "Title 10 USC 311 facilitates mandatory conscription of civilians into the military, not the militia."
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Upon further research, new information forces me to revise my claim as Title 10 USC 331 does not regard conscription at all. It regards the international exchange of personnel.

Here is what the code is for. Militias are made of civilians, so with regard to civilians it reads, in part "...civilian personnel of the defense or security ministry of that foreign government or international or regional security organization...". An example of this would be the Secret Service. The Secret Service is a civilian law enforcement agency. A very extra super organized organization.

Every person had to be classified as something in order to establish legal authority for international exchange. This still does not mean you are a member of a militia, Title 10 USC 331 remains nothing but a legal tool for other things. There is no such thing as an un-organized militia.
 
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Sort-of off topic but it would be fun to posit a law which read:

"(a) The People of the United States consists of all born males and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the Right To Life Society.

(b) The classes of the "persons" are-

(1) Born members of the species homosapien; and

(2)Un-born members of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb"

We could write down any sort of law we wanted and make you a member of the un-organised church, too.
 
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Wayne Jr said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...saying that "the law disagrees" is not a logical argument, it's an Appeal To Authority. Laws are nothing more than arbitrary edicts meant to control the population. Laws are not objective truths.

Logically, if an un-organization existed then it would be just a reguler organization with a member list, budget, facility, assets, etc. The unorganized militia can only have un-members, meaning no members, because there's no roster or organization at all.

Title 10 USC 311 was written well after the 2nd amendment and only serves to facilitate the draft. Once drafted you will be issued weapons.
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If you misuse a word and I point to the dictionary and tell you the definition in there differs from the one you are using, I am not making an appeal to authority.

Logically being unorganized does not require anything that you say. The only requirements are stated clearly in the law. When it was written is irrelevant.
 
Aberration said:
If you misuse a word and I point to the dictionary and tell you the definition in there differs from the one you are using, I am not making an appeal to authority.

Logically being unorganized does not require anything that you say. The only requirements are stated clearly in the law. When it was written is irrelevant.
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You didn't point to a dictionary, tho.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Upon further research, new information forces me to revise my claim as Title 10 USC 331 does not regard conscription at all. It regards the international exchange of personnel.

Here is what the code is for. Militias are made of civilians, so with regard to civilians it reads, in part "...civilian personnel of the defense or security ministry of that foreign government or international or regional security organization...". An example of this would be the Secret Service. The Secret Service is a civilian law enforcement agency. A very extra super organized organization.

Every person had to be classified as something in order to establish legal authority for international exchange. This still does not mean you are a member of a militia, Title 10 USC 331 remains nothing but a legal tool for other things. There is no such thing as an un-organized militia.
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*311

Typo :P
 
Aberration said:
You are correct. But that’s not how analogies work. Tho.
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You haven't made an analogy, either.

Oh, and....

tho
T͟Hō/Submit
conjunction & adverb
informal spelling of though.
 
I did. Next time I’ll stick with pictures.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Upon further research, new information forces me to revise my claim as Title 10 USC 331 does not regard conscription at all. It regards the international exchange of personnel.

Here is what the code is for. Militias are made of civilians, so with regard to civilians it reads, in part "...civilian personnel of the defense or security ministry of that foreign government or international or regional security organization...". An example of this would be the Secret Service. The Secret Service is a civilian law enforcement agency. A very extra super organized organization.

Every person had to be classified as something in order to establish legal authority for international exchange. This still does not mean you are a member of a militia, Title 10 USC 331 remains nothing but a legal tool for other things. There is no such thing as an un-organized militia.
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US code underwent a renumbering. The 10 USC 311 that addressed the militia is now 10 USC 246:

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246
 
Rucker61 said:
US code underwent a renumbering. The 10 USC 311 that addressed the militia is now 10 USC 246:

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246
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Yes, that is the law which only serves to facilitate the exchange of personal internationally and does not establish you as a member of any such un-organized militia. Did you have an argument to make or were you just offering a citation for neutral reference?
 
Wayne Jr said:
Yes, that is the law which only serves to facilitate the exchange of personal internationally and does not establish you as a member of any such un-organized militia. Did you have an argument to make or were you just offering a citation for neutral reference?
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The law reads that all men not in the National Guard age 17-45 are in the unorganized militia. That's unequivocal. You've shown nothing to establish that it only facilitates the exchange of personal (sic) internationally. the 10 USC 311 you quoted is a result of the renumbering of US code. 10 USC 246 is plain English and not subservient to 10 USC 311.
 
Aberration said:
Shall not be infringed. That’s your “ample” room.
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Ahhh.... but it's the right itself that shall not be infringed. That's why a complete ban on firearm ownership would be unconstitutional. But let's not forget, also, that the right also co-exists with the need for a well-regulated militia - one depends on the other. You can't have a militia without an armed population, and you can't have a secure and free State unless that armed population is well regulated.
 
Cordelier said:
Ahhh.... but it's the right itself that shall not be infringed. That's why a complete ban on firearm ownership would be unconstitutional. But let's not forget, also, that the right also co-exists with the need for a well-regulated militia - one depends on the other. You can't have a militia without an armed population, and you can't have a secure and free State unless that armed population is well regulated.
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that has nothing to do with the federal government being able to ban private citizens owning certain types of firearms.
 
Cordelier said:
Why not? We can ban certain types of citizens from owning firearms, can we not? So why not the other way around?
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that's based on due process of law. we can ban certain types of citizens from being able to travel freely (people in prison, sex offenders, those on probation).
 
TurtleDude said:
that's based on due process of law. we can ban certain types of citizens from being able to travel freely (people in prison, sex offenders, those on probation).
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Regardless, I've never talked about a ban... I just want to classify semi-auto rifles as Title II weapons - in the same way machine-guns and sawed-off shotguns are now classified.
 
Cordelier said:
Regardless, I've never talked about a ban... I just want to classify semi-auto rifles as Title II weapons - in the same way machine-guns and sawed-off shotguns are now classified.
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Good for you.
 
Cordelier said:
Regardless, I've never talked about a ban... I just want to classify semi-auto rifles as Title II weapons - in the same way machine-guns and sawed-off shotguns are now classified.
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so you want everyone who owns a MI carbine-perhaps one of the million or so sold to them by the federal government to have to turn them in, apply for a tax stamp, wait 12 month etc? for what purpose? you gun banners (and that is a de facto gun ban) can never tell us why you are so afraid of honest people owning semi auto rifles
 
TurtleDude said:
so you want everyone who owns a MI carbine-perhaps one of the million or so sold to them by the federal government to have to turn them in, apply for a tax stamp, wait 12 month etc? for what purpose? you gun banners (and that is a de facto gun ban) can never tell us why you are so afraid of honest people owning semi auto rifles
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Because, on average, they've been used to kill 13 people per year in mass shootings since 2004; fewer than have been murdered using water or died from lightning strikes each year.
 
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