How Congress can fight Hamas's use of human shields

[Fledermaus]

in response to

We get the usual dishonest reply of

"Which didn't happen, so you are forced into lying again."

easily refuted by showing the poster's statement of

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...ithout-rearming-hamas.451534/#post-1074110442

as an excuse for Hamas striking anywhere in Israel (no matter how indiscriminately).

Anyone with even average intelligence can see who is really lying here and can also see who is projecting own dishonesty onto others.

Yeah, normal service all right.

Just like the Hamas TV show that clearly paints all Jews as legitimate targets.

Every once in a while the mask slips.

 

[oneworld2]

in response to

We get the usual dishonest reply of

"Which didn't happen, so you are forced into lying again."

easily refuted by showing the poster's statement of

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...ithout-rearming-hamas.451534/#post-1074110442

as an excuse for Hamas striking anywhere in Israel (no matter how indiscriminately).

Anyone with even average intelligence can see who is really lying here and can also see who is projecting own dishonesty onto others.

Yeah, normal service all right.

Yep, it didn't happen in the post you replied to so you are forced to go to a different thread with a slightly different context so as to make the square peg fit the round hole. You also ,dishonestly, refused to comment on the ,so called, equating of the alleged Palestinian miltiary human shields with the Israeli settler land human shields. Was it just too obvious that you were misrepresenting again ?

There is no " excuse" for rockets fired from Gaza because I ALWAYS describe them as war crimes. That it is true that every city in Israel is filled with IDF personnel, they are only legitimate targets if they are on duty/in combat etc. When they are not they are classed as civilians like everyone else. ( It is not the same for the Palestinians however )

Contexts matter when you are quoting people and your ongoing sommersaults in trying to project your demonstrable dishonesty onto others is legendary and only people " with average intelligence " ( or little intelligence) will be fooled by your posts imo

Also you have had NOTHING to say about the HRW report on the quintessential use of Palestinians by the IDF as human shields for their operations NOR the IDF slayings of people waving white flags.................... was that all just too tough for you too ?

 

[oneworld2]

Just like the Hamas TV show that clearly paints all Jews as legitimate targets.

Every once in a while the mask slips.

You got that wrong too and your own mask slips quite regularly as per my sigs and in many other examples and on many occasions

 

[Fledermaus]

You got that wrong too and your own mask slips quite regularly as per my sigs and in many other examples and on many occasions

And as usual you are incorrect.

Hamas considers all Israelis to be targets. They have stated so. Their TV show enforces that idea. And now you are on record as well.

Israeli citizens = Targets

 

[oneworld2]

How about addressing Hamas' constant use of Human Shields instead of trying to make a thread about Hamas into one about the IDF?

Because the IDF are and have been the more prolific users of human shields. Those that have investigsated the claims of Hamas et al of using human shields have found little/no evidence to support it. Those that have investigated the IDF uses of it come back with evidence and evidence of worse attrocities like shooting women and kids waving white flags and you habe NOTHING to say about that. Your silence, as well as that of Chagos in this regard and on this subject is glaringly indicative of a highly dubious/selective moral compass. The masks are slipping alright and it is theirs and your own that are the most obvious

 

[oneworld2]

And as usual you are incorrect.

Hamas considers all Israelis to be targets. They have stated so. Their TV show enforces that idea. And now you are on record as well.

Israeli citizens = Targets

You read the tv clip wrong. You have misrepresented what I have said you are forced to do these things because of a deep seated bias.....................nothing changes

 

[Chagos]

post #27 speaks for itself, shows all relevant data and thus that Hamas rocket attacks are deemed legitimate upon the entirety of Israel (civilian areas included), seeing how IDF forces are everywhere.

Doesn't matter in which other thread that was stated because stated it was.

Trying to deflect from that simple fact with all sorts of other diversions changes nothing in the assessment that all of Israel is target because..................

 

[Chagos]

Just like the Hamas TV show that clearly paints all Jews as legitimate targets.

Every once in a while the mask slips.

"Refuted by (firstly) "I never said that" and then, when actually shown as having been said, (secondly) by "I didn't say it in this thread".

Leeroy Jenkins at the helm of the Kobayashi Maru?

Maybe not a sound comparison but it does still come to mind

 

[Individual]

I addressed a certain part of your post because it showed a lack of understanding about the subject. So what do you do ? Mention the other parts of the post that I didn't address

The subject I was referring to is rockets being launched. Do you understand that?
A for military stores, which may be targeted, that may be a little more difficult, but if civilians accept being used as human shields...

 

[oneworld2]

Once again you ignore the topic and try to derail.

I cited material from stuff that was linked in the OP by yourself, THAT IS the topic. Your posts are ridiculous excuses for just willful biases that have little to add to any discussions about anything to do with this subject.

According to the definitions and examples given in the ICRC link you used, the IDF are the party more likely to " constantly use human shields" than Hamas combatants are. That's going by what YOU chose to cite.

 

[oneworld2]

The subject I was referring to is rockets being launched. Do you understand that?
A for military stores, which may be targeted, that may be a little more difficult, but if civilians accept being used as human shields...

You spoke about the use of leafleting and I responded to that part of your post because it was abundantly clear that you hadn't thought it through/was unaware of the issues it raises. If you want to deny it that's fine by me but it is recorded in the thread nonetheless.

Your point might be even more valid if the IDF desisted from bombing buildings that are near to/above suspected Palestinian militant assets but the truth is they don't. Mosques, schools hospitals, nurseries etc etc all have been repeated targets of the IDF.

Hamas has encouraged the people of Gaza to act as human shields for their own homes etc , the IDF had it as official policy and has consistently used Palestinians as human shields, in the most accepted definition of the term, for years . As I have said ,and you have seemed to ignore, that the definitions of human shields and the examples given for them are more readily found in the actions of IDF personnel than in the militant combatants in Gaza. The HRW request cited is based on a grey world where what is " feasible" and what is permissive/practical, within the restrictions of the laws of war, are open to discussion. That is not the case with many of the IDF uses of Palestinians as human shields and that is where this whole shebang is called into question imo

 

[oneworld2]

"Refuted by (firstly) "I never said that" and then, when actually shown as having been said, (secondly) by "I didn't say it in this thread".

Leeroy Jenkins at the helm of the Kobayashi Maru?

Maybe not a sound comparison but it does still come to mind

The contexts in the threads were different and so the words should be seen as different. They will be by people without the compulsion to misrepresent, which leaves you out. You also misrepresented what I said about the settlers serving as human shields for a land annexation programme. Misrepresentations fill your posts while you try to project your own demonstrable dishonesty onto others. It's just that simple

 

[oneworld2]

How about addressing Hamas' constant use of Human Shields instead of trying to make a thread about Hamas into one about the IDF?

When you can sustain the charge by referencing the definitions YOU chose to cite from the ICRC site you might have an argument but right now they apply vastly more accurately to the IDF. I guess you never thought this through when you were looking through the tunnel vision perspective you prefer, so these types of situations are going to be occupational hazards for you, time and again .

 

[Fledermaus]

When you can sustain the charge by referencing the definitions YOU chose to cite from the ICRC site you might have an argument but right now they apply vastly more accurately to the IDF. I guess you never thought this through when you were looking through the tunnel vision perspective you prefer, so these types of situations are going to be occupational hazards for you, time and again .

In case you missed it. This is the thread title.

How Congress can fight Hamas's use of human shields

If you can't discuss the subject please find another thread.

 

[Fledermaus]

I cited material from stuff that was linked in the OP by yourself, THAT IS the topic. Your posts are ridiculous excuses for just willful biases that have little to add to any discussions about anything to do with this subject.

According to the definitions and examples given in the ICRC link you used, the IDF are the party more likely to " constantly use human shields" than Hamas combatants are. That's going by what YOU chose to cite.

The subject is HAMAS and what Congress can do the end their constant use of Human Shields.

 

[oneworld2]

In case you missed it. This is the thread title.

How Congress can fight Hamas's use of human shields

If you can't discuss the subject please find another thread.

Once again, if the material you cite is contained in the OP then it is legitimate material to discuss. You DON'T get to restrict debate with the title of the thread so as to constrict discussions to reflect your own obvious bias on all things Palestinain. You want to complain that's fine but until you or Congress can ACTUALLY support the assertion using the definitions cited, you are just engaging in blowing smoke

 

[Fledermaus]

Once again, if the material you cite is contained in the OP then it is legitimate material to discuss. You DON'T get to restrict debate with the title of the thread so as to constrict discussions to reflect your own obvious bias on all things Palestinain. You want to complain that's fine but until you or Congress can ACTUALLY support the assertion using the definitions cited, you are just engaging in blowing smoke

Another post that does not address the subject of the thread.

 

[oneworld2]

The subject is HAMAS and what Congress can do the end their constant use of Human Shields.

see above post

 

[oneworld2]

Another post that does not address the subject of the thread.

The subject of the thread is the use, or not, of human shields. Your chosen citation for what constitutes as being a human shields applies more to IDF actions as is does Palestinian militant groups. Don't like it? find a definition that suits your biases

 

[Fledermaus]

The subject of the thread is the use, or not, of human shields. Your chosen citation for what constitutes as being a human shields applies more to IDF actions as is does Palestinian militant groups. Don't like it? find a definition that suits your biases

The subject is "How Congress can fight Hamas's use of human shields".

Congress

Hamas

Hamas' use of human shields.

Not Israel.

Not the IDF.

 

[oneworld2]

The subject is "How Congress can fight Hamas's use of human shields".

Congress

Hamas

Hamas' use of human shields.

Not Israel.

Not the IDF.

"The subject " is flawed and I have used the content of the OP to show why.

from the OP

During the May 2021 conflict, Hamas reportedly used civilians as human shields to protect its military assets from Israeli counterstrikes. For example, Hamas reportedly located military tunnels under a school and adjacent to a kindergarten, a mosque, and a hospital. It reportedly placed weapons stockpiles in several different houses and apartment buildings, situated pivotal intelligence research and operations facilities in the same building as the Associated Press and other foreign journalists, and installed its military intelligence headquarters next to a kindergarten. Hamas also reportedly used civilian apartment buildings for military planning and operations, positioned rocket launch sites next to civilian buildings, and situated weapons factories in the heart of densely populated civilian areas.

" Reportedly" by whom ? The IDF ? So they are already involved. Don't like it ? Tough.................if there is little/no evidence for Palestinian groups using people as human shields, there is nothing for Congress to " fight". If they want to stop the well known use of human shields by the IDF folk, something they can fight, they need only stop the bankrolling and diplomatic immunity they provide those actually guilty of using people as human shields.

Once again we see the USE of and PHONEY concern of some Americans being used to dupe people about the reality of a situation.

 

[Fledermaus]

"The subject " is flawed and I have used the content of the OP to show why.

from the OP

" Reportedly" by whom ? The IDF ? So they are already involved. Don't like it ? Tough.................if there is little/no evidence for Palestinian groups using people as human shields, there is nothing for Congress to " fight". If they want to stop the well known use of human shields by the IDF folk, something they can fight, they need only stop the bankrolling and diplomatic immunity they provide those actually guilty of using people as human shields.

Once again we see the USE of and PHONEY concern of some Americans being used to dupe people about the reality of a situation.

So, the use of Human Shields by Hamas. For example using civilian structures to hide and/or launch terror attacks against innocent civilians.

What do you think Congress can do to stop it?

 

[oneworld2]

What do you think Congress can do to stop it?

Stop the financial and diplomatic support they give that enables/protects it.

 

[Fledermaus]

Stop the financial and diplomatic support they give that enables/protects it.

Ah, so stop the financial and diplomatic support for Hamas.

Since they are the ones we are speaking of.

Right?

Won't that hurt the innocent Palestinian civilians?

We both know Hamas doesn't care about them.

 

[oneworld2]

Ah, so stop the financial and diplomatic support for Hamas.

You can't stop was isn't happening, obvious really but apparently not to you. Yep, the way for congress to stop those engaging in the use of humans as shields would be to stop the financial and diplomatic support for Israel

Since they are the ones we are speaking of.

Right?

Won't that hurt the innocent Palestinian civilians?

We both know Hamas doesn't care about them.

You don't care about the Palestinians either and probably way less than any member of Hamas does, so you are in no position to criticize them wrt the use, or not, of human shields