How can we explain human consciousness with science?

[Quag]

I agree although I have met many people who I would not call self concious at all.

I would disagree with those people

 

[Tim the plumber]

I would disagree with those people

Within the idea of evolution is the capacity for people to suceed without actually being sentient. That is if they can immitate it they can get away with it. So your cat or dog is, I suspect, less likely to be not sentient than your neibough. Your dog cannot get away with not really being social.

There are those who simply do not ever see themselves in the eyes of another.

 

[Triton]

I guess you'll have to explain what you mean by "quantum." If you're talking about some aspect of quantum physics, then no, it most definitely is not necessarily based on that any more than anything else is based on that.

If it's governed by chemistry it's governed by quantum.

 

[zyzygy]

If it's governed by chemistry it's governed by quantum.

What do you mean by 'quantum'?

 

[craig]

There is actually a well established name for people who are not self-aware, "philosophical zombies". Look it up. It is an interesting topic.

 

[craig]

A dead body does not have a functioning brain, it has a dead brain. Smashing my air conditioner with a sledge hammer doesn't cause the cooling to "leave." It's just no longer capable of cooling.

Plug in an air conditioner it cools, unplug it and doesn't, plug it back in and it cools. What is it that causes the cooling? The air conditioner or the electricity in the air conditioner?

 

[craig]

I did.

OK I will help you. Scientists have detected that a field of energy surrounds the brain. Perhaps generated by the neurons firing as you describe. The interesting thing is that is if they induce changes into that electro-magnetic field other neurons will fire. So what is really causing neurons to fire.

 

[Noodlegawd]

If it's governed by chemistry it's governed by quantum.

You still haven't answered the question, but anyway if that's the case then it's a totally meaningless statement. It would also be true of a rock.

 

[craig]

OK I will help you. Scientists have detected that a field of energy surrounds the brain. Perhaps generated by the neurons firing as you describe. The interesting thing is that is if they induce changes into that electro-magnetic field other neurons will fire. So what is really causing neurons to fire.

This make me wonder where is all the information/data stored that fires neurons in the order required to generate consciousness. There is only 100 billion cells in the brain. My NAS has more storage. Brain cells are multiply connected with synapses but this still seems too small. Possibly it is stored at the quantum level. The laws of thermal dynamics may be deferent there and that data could be retained after the body is dead.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Plug in an air conditioner it cools, unplug it and doesn't, plug it back in and it cools. What is it that causes the cooling? The air conditioner or the electricity in the air conditioner?

The functioning of the air conditioner is what causes it to cool. Cooling is a result of the functioning of the airconditioner, just like consciousness is a result of the functioning of a brain.

 

[craig]

The functioning of the air conditioner is what causes it to cool. Cooling is a result of the functioning of the airconditioner, just like consciousness is a result of the functioning of a brain.

But it could also be: Consciousness is what makes the brain work. Just like electricity.

 

[craig]

But it could also be: Consciousness is what makes the brain work. Just like electricity makes the air conditioner work.

 

[Evilroddy]

This article may provide some ideas to prime the debate-pump of moving towards understanding.

What Is Consciousness?

Scientists are beginning to unravel a mystery that has long vexed philosophers

www.scientificamerican.com

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Noodlegawd]

But it could also be: Consciousness is what makes the brain work. Just like electricity.

It "could also be" that dark-matter unicorn juice is what causes consciousness. Of course there's no evidence for that and plenty to the contrary.

 

[craig]

This make me wonder where is all the information/data stored that fires neurons in the order required to generate consciousness. There is only 100 billion cells in the brain. My NAS has more storage. Brain cells are multiply connected with synapses but this still seems too small. Possibly it is stored at the quantum level. The laws of thermal dynamics may be deferent there and that data could be retained after the body is dead.

Actually my NAS has 1000 times more bytes of storage then the brain has brain cells. And each of those bytes have 256 possible states.

 

[craig]

It "could also be" that dark-matter unicorn juice is what causes consciousness. Of course there's no evidence for that and plenty to the contrary.

There is some evidence. I've discussed it in other posts under this topic.

 

[Noodlegawd]

There is some evidence. I've discussed it in other posts under this topic.

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't see a single post from you containing a link to any source of such "evidence."

 

[craig]

This article may provide some ideas to prime the debate-pump of moving towards understanding.

What Is Consciousness?

Scientists are beginning to unravel a mystery that has long vexed philosophers

www.scientificamerican.com

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Thanks. Interesting article. Is shows most current current research is driven by ideas from philosophical mechanism. I think advances in physics will allow more research to be driven by ideas of philosophical dualism. Did you see this article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...lly-brains-energy-field-claims-scientist.html

 

[craig]

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't see a single post from you containing a link to any source of such "evidence."

Scientists have detected that a field of energy surrounds the brain. Perhaps generated by the neurons firing as you describe. The interesting thing is that is if they induce changes into that electro-magnetic field other neurons will fire. So what is really causing neurons to fire.

 

[craig]

Scientists have detected that a field of energy surrounds the brain. Perhaps generated by the neurons firing as you describe. The interesting thing is that is if they induce changes into that electro-magnetic field other neurons will fire. So what is really causing neurons to fire.

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't see a single post from you containing a link to any source of such "evidence."

Oh sorry you want a link. I will try to find the article I read.

 

[craig]

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't see a single post from you containing a link to any source of such "evidence."

Human consciousness is the brain's 'energy field', claims scientist

Johnjoe McFadden, a professor of neuroscience at the University of Surrey, believes he has 'solved' the mystery of consciousness.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Noodlegawd]

Human consciousness is the brain's 'energy field', claims scientist

Johnjoe McFadden, a professor of neuroscience at the University of Surrey, believes he has 'solved' the mystery of consciousness.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is not evidence. It's the totally untested belief of one person. And even if consciousness is someone embodied, either wholly or partly, in the electromagnetic field that is generated by the electrical activity in the brain, it is still a product of the brain, not something separate from it.

 

[craig]

This is not evidence. It's the totally untested belief of one person. And even if consciousness is someone embodied, either wholly or partly, in the electromagnetic field that is generated by the electrical activity in the brain, it is still a product of the brain, not something separate from it.

It is a theory. You forget the topic. It was to discuss theories. Is electricity separate from the air conditioner. The air conditioner does not generate electricity. Electrical activity can only be detected when the air conditioner is turned on. I think it is a good analogy. Look up philosophical dualism as apposed to mechanism.
Try this one.

What Is Consciousness?

Scientists are beginning to unravel a mystery that has long vexed philosophers

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[craig]

This is not evidence. It's the totally untested belief of one person. And even if consciousness is someone embodied, either wholly or partly, in the electromagnetic field that is generated by the electrical activity in the brain, it is still a product of the brain, not something separate from it.

You missed the part where inducing a change in the field caused neurons to fire in the brain. Cause and effect may not be the same at the quantum level.

 

[Triton]

What do you mean by 'quantum'?

Quantum mechanics.