How can we explain human consciousness with science?

[craig]

This is not that hard. Consciousness is related to the various functions of the body. Is a person who is “brain dead” still conscious? Depends on your definition of the word. That human clearly can no longer think, but the brain still knows enough to keep the bodily functions going. When the brain dies, everything basically shuts down. Without electro-chemical reactions, there is no more consciousness. Period. What is so hard about this to figure out?

This has been an argument for a long time. That you are the machine and not in the machine. But it doesn't answer what consciousness is. And only locates it by saying it is the body.

 

[craig]

Or perhaps not a "photograph" of your mind if we figure out how consciousness works and can isolate it.

Yes that is the purpose of this topic. What are approaches we can take to do that?

 

[Questerr]

Yes that is the purpose of this topic. What are approaches we can take to do that?

The right answer right now is "we don't know". There are multiple hypotheses in science for how consciousness *might* work, but none of them are very solid or demonstrable.

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to be what Eclipse Phase calls an "egomorph", but we just aren't anywhere close.

 

[craig]

Most accurate scientific answer: We don't know.

There's a whole bunch of hypotheses. None come close to being scientific theories.

I am not saying there is now an answer. Far from it. Making guesses is the first step to developing theories and then gather evidence to support or refute them.

 

[watsup]

This has been an argument for a long time. That you are the machine and not in the machine. But it doesn't answer what consciousness is. And only locates it by saying it is the body.

Yes, it’s a direct result of the body functioning as a living entity. Where else could it possibly be?

 

[Questerr]

I am not saying there is now an answer. Far from it. Making guesses is the first step to developing theories and then gather evidence to support or refute them.

I mean, are you a neuroscientist?

 

[RAMOSS]

Yes, it’s a direct result of the body functioning as a living entity. Where else could it possibly be?

With current technology, we can observe the differences in the brain when it is conscious, and when it is not. What is missing is 'why', or even a model of 'why'

 

[iguanaman]

You can tell me you are conscious, animals can't. I consider the inner monologue a defining attribute of consciousness. Perhaps I should always use the word consciousness not conscious. I don't know if animals are aware and make choices or are only driven by instinct.

When we try to gauge consciousness we make the mistake of putting it in human terms. Animals have different emphasis's on other senses besides sight. Still many animals see themselves ina mirror meaning they recognize their existence.
When you look in the mirror, you see yourself. That puts you in the company of animals like dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees, and magpies, all of whom have shown the ability to recognize their own reflections.
https://qz.com/1501318/the-mirror-t...in the,whether animals possess self-awareness.

 

[watsup]

Where else could it be other than in the body of a living animal? It’s not hovering over you like on a cartoon. That’s why scientists study consciousness in a living entity and not a dead one. The meaning of dead is that consciousness is gone. How hard is this to understand?

 

[watsup]

Scientist: I’m going to the morgue to study consciousness.
NOT!

 

[craig]

The right answer right now is "we don't know". There are multiple hypotheses in science for how consciousness *might* work, but none of them are very solid or demonstrable.

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to be what Eclipse Phase calls an "egomorph", but we just aren't anywhere close.

I agree. We are not going to solve this. I started the topic because I think it is fun to talk about. Who knows somebody may get interested and do real work.

 

[craig]

When we try to gauge consciousness we make the mistake of putting it in human terms. Animals have different emphasis's on other senses besides sight. Still many animals see themselves ina mirror meaning they recognize their existence.
When you look in the mirror, you see yourself. That puts you in the company of animals like dolphins, elephants, chimpanzees, and magpies, all of whom have shown the ability to recognize their own reflections.
https://qz.com/1501318/the-mirror-test-for-animals-reflects-the-limits-of-human-cognition/#:~:text=That puts you in the,whether animals possess self-awareness.

I agree being self-aware is an attribute of consciousness but not the only one. The experiment may be flawed. The animal can't tell us if it knows what an image is and if that image is itself. It may just notice that there is a mark on another animal and looks for a similar mark on itself. A survival instinct to check for bugs or wounds.

 

[Triton]

Consciousness is a property of the brain. Just because we don't understand every detail of how it works doesn't mean it has to be based on anything "quantum" or woo-woo.

It's most definitely based on something "quantum" if you're willing to accept that it's at all a property of a physical brain.

 

[Noodlegawd]

It's most definitely based on something "quantum" if you're willing to accept that it's at all a property of a physical brain.

I guess you'll have to explain what you mean by "quantum." If you're talking about some aspect of quantum physics, then no, it most definitely is not necessarily based on that any more than anything else is based on that.

 

[noonereal]

I don't mean how did it evolve. But what is it. I'll start.
An interface between the mind and body at the quantum level. Just a guess.

guess again, this is ridiculous

 

[noonereal]

where is consciousness.

same place it goes when we stay at the local bar to long

 

[Noodlegawd]

That is what we want to learn. A dead body has a brain, where is consciousness. Did it leave? Cease to exist? Does it still exist in the information contained in entangled particles?

A dead body does not have a functioning brain, it has a dead brain. Smashing my air conditioner with a sledge hammer doesn't cause the cooling to "leave." It's just no longer capable of cooling.

 

[craig]

guess again, this is ridiculous

What is your guess?

 

[craig]

I mean, are you a neuroscientist?

Not at all. I like discussing interesting stuff. Isn't that what we are all here for?

 

[noonereal]

What is your guess?

guess?
@watsup already defined it for you and it was not a guess

Consciousness is electro-chemical reactions. There is nothing mystical about it. It's micro workings are simply not completely understood.

 

[craig]

guess?
@watsup already defined it for you and it was not a guess

Consciousness is electro-chemical reactions. There is nothing mystical about it. It's micro workings are simply not completely understood.

I said nothing about mysticism. I want a scientific explanation. You say science has explained this. Can share something with a little more detail?

 

[noonereal]

I said nothing about mysticism. I want a scientific explanation. You say science has explained this. Can share something with a little more detail?

I did.

 

[zyzygy]

Where else could it be other than in the body of a living animal? It’s not hovering over you like on a cartoon. That’s why scientists study consciousness in a living entity and not a dead one. The meaning of dead is that consciousness is gone. How hard is this to understand?

A magic god does it! No proof of that statement is needed. Believe!

 

[Quag]

I think you have to make the distinction between concious and self concious or sentient.

A frog which wakes up and does its' stuff is concious in that it is awake.

Being aware of the model of you that somebody else has inside their head is the top of the thing.

Again I find it hard to imagine that anyone who has had a dog or cat for a pet could beleive that they are not self conscious.
Cant speak about frogs though, really havent spent much time with them.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Again I find it hard to imagine that anyone who has had a dog or cat for a pet could beleive that they are not self conscious.
Cant speak about frogs though, really havent spent much time with them.

I agree although I have met many people who I would not call self concious at all.