How can this possibly be constitutional?

[AZRWinger]

You seem unable to understand this, but placing the Ten Commandments in public schools is government establishing a religion. Once more, it is ok to teach about religions, comparing and contrasting them, in public school. The public school just can't favor one religion over another.

I note the absence of any attempt to justify your claim using the text of the Constitution. The problem isn't my lack of understanding. It's a lack of support in the Constitution for purging religious expression from the public schools which makes atheism the de facto state religion.

 

[BabaVoss]

Even though religion forms the basis for law and government public school students cannot be exposed to its teachings lest it offend atheists.

I challenge this assumption that “religion forms the basis” for our laws and government. That is an absurdity erroneous conclusion. The values we all (or mostly) share form the basis of our laws. That those values are also shared by many religions is not surprising. None of this has anything to do with “offending” atheists. Anywho is free to “expose” their children to whatever religions they choose.

Students are forced to learn the rules of grammar, spelling and mathematics, at least they used to be, but somehow informing them of the religious basis of Western society is forcing conformity. Nonsense.

Again, the basis of western society is its values.

Teaching moral lessons with no reference to God is textbook atheism. Faith is placed in government to spontaneously do the right thing. It is the only approved state religion.

Atheism is not religion.

 

[Hip octogenarian]

I note the absence of any attempt to justify your claim using the text of the Constitution. The problem isn't my lack of understanding. It's a lack of support in the Constitution for purging religious expression from the public schools which makes atheism the de facto state religion.

You are blind to anything you don't like. The Constitution is clear. Putting the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms is indoctrination in a particular religion and is therefore unconstitutional.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

The legal battle over Louisiana law requiring schools to display Ten Commandments​

It's pretty specific. It says the Ten Commandments need to be displayed in large, easily readable font. The law also says posters displaying the commandments have to include a context statement, the exact wording of which was included in the law passed by Louisiana's Republican-controlled legislature. It's several paragraphs but, in short, says the Ten Commandments, quote, "were a prominent part of American public education for almost three centuries," though I should say some historians argue that isn't true.

The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a similar law to Louisiana's in 1980. In that ruling, the court said requiring schools in Kentucky to post the Ten Commandments, quote, "had no secular legislative purpose," was plainly religious and therefore unconstitutional. Now, Louisiana's attorney general argues the state's law is different and constitutional. She says it passes a history and tradition test and that it's about teaching morals. Opponents aren't buying that, though. They say this case is about getting something that's already been decided back to the Supreme Court, which now has a conservative supermajority.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/22/nx-s1-5159697/the-legal-battle-over-louisiana-law-requiring-schools-to-display-ten-commandments

Let's explain the 7th Commandment to 3rd Graders.

It is absolutely not constitutional, and Louisiana knows this. They are attempting to create a theocracy. This attempt needs to cost the AG of Louisiana her licensure.

 

[AZRWinger]

I challenge this assumption that “religion forms the basis” for our laws and government. That is an absurdity erroneous conclusion. The values we all (or mostly) share form the basis of our laws. That those values are also shared by many religions is not surprising. None of this has anything to do with “offending” atheists. Anywho is free to “expose” their children to whatever religions they choose.


Again, the basis of western society is its values.


Atheism is not religion.

Hmm... you offer so-called shared values as the basis for Western laws and government but there is no explanation where these shared values originate. Leftists love to co-opt Judeo Christian values as magically springing from the collective. Naturally an expanded government is responsible for enacting these values under the theory of so-called social justice.

Atheism is the de facto religion of those who are wildly intolerant of public religious expression. The goal of denying and suppressing belief in God is a shared value of secular Leftists and atheists.

 

[BabaVoss]

Hmm... you offer so-called shared values as the basis for Western laws and government but there is no explanation where these shared values originate. Leftists love to co-opt Judeo Christian values as magically springing from the collective. Naturally an expanded government is responsible for enacting these values under the theory of so-called social justice.

You are babbling. These shared values are all shared by almost every religion out there. Where they originate is not relevant and does not need to be explained. They did not originate in any particular religion. They did not originate in our government.

Atheism is the de facto religion...

Repeating a nonsensical lie does not make it true. Atheism has a specific meaning and is not, by any definition, a religion.

...of those who are wildly intolerant of public religious expression. The goal of denying and suppressing belief in God is a shared value of secular Leftists and atheists.

Everyone is free to believe in whatever gods they want. Our founders considered that particular freedom to be of particular importance. Our Constitution was intended to provide for freedom of AND freedom from organized religion. No on is denying or suppressing anyone's belief. How ridiculous can you get?

 

[Gordy327]

Atheism is the de facto religion of those who are wildly intolerant of public religious expression

Atheism is not a religion.

. The goal of denying and suppressing belief in God is a shared value of secular Leftists and atheists.

Who is being denied belief in god? Are you saying belief in god is dependent on the government promoting your god or religion? Secularism is not the same as atheism.

The problem isn't my lack of understanding.

Yes, it is! You clearly do not know what you're talking about!

It's a lack of support in the Constitution for purging religious expression from the public schools which makes atheism the de facto state religion.

The Establishment Clause prevents that. SCOTUS precedent, such as the landmark case Engel v Vitale (1962) affirms that! Atheism is not a religon. Just because the government caanot endore or promote religion does not make it an endorsement of atheism by default.

 

[AZRWinger]

You are babbling. These shared values are all shared by almost every religion out there. Where they originate is not relevant and does not need to be explained. They did not originate in any particular religion. They did not originate in our government.

Shared values common to almost all religions! It's like these values have a common source, religion. Thanks for the recognition.

You can't explain the shared values magic so you dismiss it as irrelevant. Brilliant.

Repeating a nonsensical lie does not make it true. Atheism has a specific meaning and is not, by any definition, a religion.

Indeed, the central tenant of atheism is denial of God. It's the identical denial of those who insist on common values for the basis of law and government. The nonsensical lie is pretending the goals don't align.

Everyone is free to believe in whatever gods they want. Our founders considered that particular freedom to be of particular importance. Our Constitution was intended to provide for freedom of AND freedom from organized religion. No on is denying or suppressing anyone's belief. How ridiculous can you get?

Everyone is free to believe in whatever God they want as long as they keep it to themselves. Yeah sure that's free.

The First Amendment explicitly guarantees the free exercise of religion. Kindly cite the Constitutional text guaranteeing freedom from religion. It isn't there.

 

[Gordy327]

Shared values common to almost all religions! It's like these values have a common source, religion. Thanks for the recognition.

You can't explain the shared values magic so you dismiss it as irrelevant. Brilliant.

That does not mean certain values are exclusive or unique to religion.

Indeed, the central tenant of atheism is denial of God. It's the identical denial of those who insist on common values for the basis of law and government. The nonsensical lie is pretending the goals don't align.

False! Atheism is simply being unconvinced there are god/s. That's it. Neither can you prove there's a god.

Everyone is free to believe in whatever God they want as long as they keep it to themselves. Yeah sure that's free.

Believe whatever you like. That is your right. You do not have the right to expect the government to validate your belief for you.

The First Amendment explicitly guarantees the free exercise of religion. Kindly cite the Constitutional text guaranteeing freedom from religion. It isn't there.

The 1st Amendment also guarantees the separation of church and state. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion by the government.

 

[BabaVoss]

Shared values common to almost all religions! It's like these values have a common source, religion. Thanks for the recognition.

Whoosh. Which religion? Unknowingly, you have supported my point.

You can't explain the shared values magic so you dismiss it as irrelevant. Brilliant.

Can you? The shared values you speak of predate organized religion.


"Repeating a nonsensical lie does not make it true. Atheism has a specific meaning and is not, by any definition, a religion."

Indeed, the central tenant of atheism is denial of God.

I think you mean tenet. But you are still wrong. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. That is all it is. It is a singular item - a lack of one specific belief. There are no other tenets to it. We aren't denying anything, we just don't believe it. Yes, there is a difference.

It's the identical denial of those who insist on common values for the basis of law and government.

Identical? No. Relevant? Also no.

The nonsensical lie is pretending the goals don't align.

Where are you getting these imagined goals?

Everyone is free to believe in whatever God they want as long as they keep it to themselves. Yeah sure that's free.

Yes. Your faith or lack thereof is a personal matter - or should be.

The First Amendment explicitly guarantees the free exercise of religion. Kindly cite the Constitutional text guaranteeing freedom from religion. It isn't there.

It's right there in the same amendment.

Establishment Clause
Prohibits the government from establishing a religion. The Lemon test, established by the Supreme Court in 1971, governs what constitutes an establishment of religion. The test states that the government can only assist religion if it is secular, does not promote or inhibit religion, and does not excessively entangle church and state.

Free Exercise Clause
Protects citizens' right to practice their religion as they please, as long as it doesn't violate public morals or a compelling government interest.

You know you can google this stuff, yes?

 

[LittleNipper]

Yet you accept the myths in the Bible.

Which myths are they?

 

[beancounter]

The way to test whether this would bother you or not. Is put another faiths,other than christianity,in the classrooms on the wall. Would this bother you?

A better idea is to have NO religion in public schools, period.

Parents can indoctrinate their kids on their own dollar, not my tax dollars.

 

[beancounter]

Which myths are they?

All of them. The Bibe is just one fairy tail after another after another.

 

[Hip octogenarian]

Which myths are they?

All of them. How about Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus being resurrected from being dead, a virgin giving birth,Noah in a whale, which the writers of this myth thought was a fish? Care to hear more?

 

[LittleNipper]

All of them. How about Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus being resurrected from being dead, a virgin giving birth,Noah in a whale, which the writers of this myth thought was a fish? Care to hear more?

It was Jonah and the whale.

 

[Gordy327]

It was Jonah and the whale.

Myth.

 

[weaver2]

I feel that the Ten Commandments are integral to our form of government and a key part of our history and values.

In what way are the 10 Commandments part of our form of government. The writings of the founders and the writings of those who wrote the Constitution do not mention them. They are not part of our history. Commandments 1-4 are specific to OT religion and very strange. Equally strange are 5 and 10. Commandments 6- 9 are basic and universal behaviors. Most cultures do not need to be told not to murder, lie or steal. What kind of culture did the Israelites have that they had to be told not to murder, lie or steal?

And Hindus and Buddhists have a high respect for the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments seem to be designed to control a very violent and willful culture. I suspect that neither Hindus nor Buddhists with their sophisticated religions do not regard the 10 Commandments with high respect.

I don't see any more reason not to display the Ten Commandments than I would an EXIT/ENTRANCE sign. Both point the way and both are meaningful to one's safety and wellbeing in generic terms.
If one has no problem reciting the Pledge of Allegiance I see even less of an issue with viewing the Ten Commandments. No one is being asked to recite it.

Nobody is this naive. You can't possibly not understand the difference in posting the 10 Commandments and Exit signs.

As for any Wiccan Mission Statement, they would seem to be quite self absorbed and show a lack of regard apart from personal schemes and desires. Not the sort of thing that uplifts society in general.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
“You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

How much more self absorbed can one get than this jealous God.

 

[Pedestrian]

And yet, al of this is over cultish beliefs and superstitions. Proof that earthlings are still a very primitive species. Plus, there is always the fact that none of these religions offer any moral instruction.

All of the big religions sanction slavery, genocide, stoning deaths and conquest. Just what do us humans have to learn from religion...hate, intolerance and war.

 

[Hip octogenarian]

It was Jonah and the whale.

Yes, my slip up. Thank you. But my point still stands.

 

[LittleNipper]

Yes, my slip up. Thank you. But my point still stands.

I would suggest that you read the account regarding Jonah. The book is short and the implications sound quite true and not like a fable at all.

 

[Hip octogenarian]

I would suggest that you read the account regarding Jonah. The book is short and the implications sound quite true and not like a fable at all.

You believe that Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish," even though a whale is not a fish, and he lived inside of it, really? That sounds true to you? How gullible are you?

 

[Gordy327]

You believe that Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish," even though a whale is not a fish, and he lived inside of it, really? That sounds true to you? How gullible are you?

I discredited that story (using science and reason of course) in my old thread, The fallacy of biblical stories: Jonah & the whale. It boggles the mind that in today's day and age, some people still believe such stories as literally true.

 

[LittleNipper]

No Hindu wants to see, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." The Ten commandments need to be left in churches, synagogues, mosques, and parochial schools, not public schools, or any other government building.

I would suggest that a Hindu would simply read such a verse in context of their own religious beliefs. generally the only ones who take issue are atheists. Everyone would rather not make waves. Before 1963 there never seemed to be any issue regarding religious connotations. Kids sang carols heard Christmas stores, and participated in Christmas parties and enjoyed them. Kinds dressed in Halloween costumes and enjoyed doing so. Kids handed out Valentine cards. The old fuddy duddies were the ones who wanted everything their way or nothing at all! Sad individuals are like that.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

I would suggest that a Hindu would simply read such a verse in context of their own religious beliefs. generally the only ones who take issue are atheists. Everyone would rather not make waves. Before 1963 there never seemed to be any issue regarding religious connotations. Kids sang carols heard Christmas stores, and participated in Christmas parties and enjoyed them. Kinds dressed in Halloween costumes and enjoyed doing so. Kids handed out Valentine cards. The old fuddy duddies were the ones who wanted everything their way or nothing at all! Sad individuals are like that.

They would not.

Keep the 10 commandments in the churches. It does not belong in schools.

 

[LittleNipper]

You believe that Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish," even though a whale is not a fish, and he lived inside of it, really? That sounds true to you? How gullible are you?

Do YOU believe in GOD? I'm not sure if what Jonah was swallowed by a large fish or what we now refer to as a whale. When were whales classified as not being fish? If the choice was between a whale being a fish or an elephant, which one would you choose? The real questions are these: Do YOU believe that GOD exists and is GOD also capable of producing a large marine animal capable of swallowing a human, and permitting that human to survive that event? IS there GOD, and do you believe in HIM?