How best to deal with gender pay gap? I say we use prevailing wage.

[Deuce]

Wouldn't it make sense then to say every single job that requires a 4 years degree should pay the same as every other job that requires a 4 year degree? If a person employed and has a degree in Art History, they should make the same as a Software Engineer if they both have the same education, period. It would solve the problem of college graduates being underemployed and where businesses are favoring applicants from certain academic disciplines over others simply because of the gender ratio in those fields of study. The government needs to give free college to everyone and then enforce that everyone will be paid based on how high of a degree they have and how long they have been there.

No, because now you have just created age discrimination.

 

[Deuce]

Getting more educated will increase your creative ability. If the government pays for everyone to get whatever degree they can get and then helps them be free to get whatever job they want, it would make everything better. They can graduate with a 4 year degree and if they want to make sandwiches, the government can subsidize the difference between what most employees in that position make and what the degree is worth. Let's say the degree is worth $30/hour and the job starts at $8.50/hour. The government pays the $21.50 difference an hour to the employee. Also, the employee could continue going to school and get a Masters or even a Phd. The government would pay for their degree so they can concentrate on their job and then subsidize the raise they get when they get their Masters, let's say $50/hour minus whatever the job normally pays. Wouldn't you think this would make employees better at their jobs?

Getting a PHD wouldn’t make me better at landing an airplane in a gusty crosswind on a wet runway.

 

[Moderate71]

We also need to settle the STEM vs. STEAM crisis afflicting academia. We do not need STEAM. Sociology, Psychology, Gender Studies, Ethnic Studies, Communications are all Sciences and are therefore part of STEM already as soon as we start calling them by their correct names. Sociological Science, Psychological Science, Gender Science, Ethnic Science, Communicative Science. Since Gender Studies is mostly composed of women, it is viewed as less scientific than "male" fields.

 

[jaeger19]

Getting more educated will increase your creative ability. If the government pays for everyone to get whatever degree they can get and then helps them be free to get whatever job they want, it would make everything better. They can graduate with a 4 year degree and if they want to make sandwiches, the government can subsidize the difference between what most employees in that position make and what the degree is worth. Let's say the degree is worth $30/hour and the job starts at $8.50/hour. The government pays the $21.50 difference an hour to the employee. Also, the employee could continue going to school and get a Masters or even a Phd. The government would pay for their degree so they can concentrate on their job and then subsidize the raise they get when they get their Masters, let's say $50/hour minus whatever the job normally pays. Wouldn't you think this would make employees better at their jobs?

Honestly, that makes no fiscal sense what so ever. So you go get a phd in philosophy.. and you work in a job that makes 8.50 an hour.. like cutting asparagus? and you expect taxpayers to subsidize that worker getting paid 30 dollars an hour.. to pick asparagus because he has a phd in philosophy.. plus have the taxpayer foot the bill for the doctorate to the tune of 100,000 dollar or more?

in what world does that make sense?

 

[Southern Dad]

Easy.. the mechanical engineer makes more money because when he performs his job... the company he works for makes thousands and thousands of dollars off him.. and so they are willing to pay a lot for his position.. because of the profit they can make off him.

The kindergarten teacher doesn't make profit.. there is less wage pressure because of this. there is no immediate perceivable profit identified with the kindergarten teacher and thus there is less wage pressure.

Heck.. take two nurses.. one who works in the school system... one who works at a private outpatient clinic. both have nursing degrees.. both are female.. and the one who works in the public school system makes less.

both in female dominated fields.. both the same educational requirements.

the gap is explained by the fact that the nurse in the private outpatient clinic creates more wage pressure because the demand for her services.. (what is paid) is so much greater.. than in the school system.

The one at the school also works considerably less days per year. 180 school days a year versus 250 in a normal office.


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[Southern Dad]

Getting a PHD wouldn’t make me better at landing an airplane in a gusty crosswind on a wet runway.

Actually, the right PhD could. My father had a PhD in Mathematics and a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. I was always amazed how many places those degrees came into use. In your example, how much weight on the plane? How many feet do you need to stop?


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[KLATTU]

How do you explain a Mechanical Engineer making more than a kindergarten teacher when they both have the same education?

LAFF, and a guy who throw a stupid ball making 10x both combined.
It's not a fair I tell ya. We have to establish some kind of commision where all wages are set by value to society.

LAFFFFFriot

 

[jaeger19]

The one at the school also works considerably less days per year. 180 school days a year versus 250 in a normal office.


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Yeah.. actually work hours are hard to discern with that. Professors are not on a clock.

 

[jimbo]

What is the best course of action to deal with the gender bias in our society where professions dominated by men are considered more valuable than those dominated by women? For example, an elementary school teacher with a Masters degree in Education is not paid the same as those in male dominated professions, such as Mechanical Engineering. I say the government should enforce prevailing wage based on educational attainment and time in service to remove the discrimination.

Employers should have a set salary based on your educational attainment and your time in service. Your employer can not pay you more or less, regardless of gender ratio in your field.

There should not be scattered unions. All workers in the country should be in one union together and your field should be irrelevant. I am not talking about Communism. I am not talking about everybody getting paid the same. You would be paid based on your skills. If you have a High School diploma and 3 years of work experience, you get paid a certain amount per hour. If you have a 4 year degree and 6 years of experience, you get paid more.

A high school education and 3 years of experience in no way is indication of your skills. It's an indication of your education and experience. Nothing more. The education system compensation works on that system. It's a mess.

The two people most qualified to determine your qualifications for a given job is you and your employer. You disagree, you both go somewhere else.

Why is that difficult to understand?

 

[Moderate71]

A high school education and 3 years of experience in no way is indication of your skills. It's an indication of your education and experience. Nothing more. The education system compensation works on that system. It's a mess.

The two people most qualified to determine your qualifications for a given job is you and your employer. You disagree, you both go somewhere else.

Why is that difficult to understand?

Simple fact. A kindergarten teacher with a Master degree will be a better teacher than one with a Bachelor's degree. One with a Phd will be even better. That is simple logic.

 

[jimbo]

Simple fact. A kindergarten teacher with a Master degree will be a better teacher than one with a Bachelor's degree. One with a Phd will be even better. That is simple logic.

No it's not logic, simple or otherwise. There's way way more to teaching than book learning. That applies more so at the lower levels than at high school level.

Same for longevity. There is no firm correlation between years in position and output. In fact the reverse is often true.

Your entire premise is based on believing that all teachers, or all persons in any field, are exactly equal except for education or time in service, discounting totally other factors such as ability, ambition, desire, or just plain common sense. That's false.

To illustrate: Two UVA freshman. Both football quarterbacks. Both with the same coach. Both graduate in 4 years with athletic degrees. Under your simple logic, both would be equal quarterbacks and would command the same salary. Is that your argument?

 

[Anarchon]

What is the best course of action to deal with the gender bias in our society where professions dominated by men are considered more valuable than those dominated by women? For example, an elementary school teacher with a Masters degree in Education is not paid the same as those in male dominated professions, such as Mechanical Engineering. I say the government should enforce prevailing wage based on educational attainment and time in service to remove the discrimination.

Employers should have a set salary based on your educational attainment and your time in service. Your employer can not pay you more or less, regardless of gender ratio in your field.

There should not be scattered unions. All workers in the country should be in one union together and your field should be irrelevant. I am not talking about Communism. I am not talking about everybody getting paid the same. You would be paid based on your skills. If you have a High School diploma and 3 years of work experience, you get paid a certain amount per hour. If you have a 4 year degree and 6 years of experience, you get paid more.

No, your system is not performance based at all. A lazy bum with a degree in underwater basketweaving from a ****ty college that passes people due to regulations and economic relationships doesn't necessarily perform as well as a go-getter with a masters in mechanical engineering from a tough prestigious school.

That, and who the hell do you think you are to force someone at the end of a gun to pay someone else? That's the equivalent of robbery. You're immoral.

 

[Aberration]

Actually, the right PhD could. My father had a PhD in Mathematics and a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. I was always amazed how many places those degrees came into use. In your example, how much weight on the plane? How many feet do you need to stop?


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In my experience people with such a high academic education are not the best at practical application of that education in an extremely stressful and demanding situation.

 

[Aberration]

How do you explain a Mechanical Engineer making more than a kindergarten teacher when they both have the same education?

Simple. They don’t have the same education. One was educated in teaching. The other is educatied in mechanical engineering. And not only do they not have the same education, but the fields they chose have different circumstances. For instance education is a monopoly controlled by unions. Those unions have tried to command the economy. It hasn’t worked well. Conversely, mechanical engineering are going to enter a highly competitive market. On the employer and employee side. Companies will fight over a decent engineer. You won’t find elementary schools competing much for teachers. And the teachers have no incentive to compete among each other.

 

[fireflygmf]

Simple fact. A kindergarten teacher with a Master degree will be a better teacher than one with a Bachelor's degree. One with a Phd will be even better. That is simple logic.

Wrong. Arguably the same person who has received a PhD after previously owning a Master's may possibly be a better teacher, but that is not to say that a different person with a Bachelor's (or even less) would not out-perform any given PhD. I would agree that on average it is likely the case, but the claim you are making is demonstrably false. Credentials and official training are not synonymous with skill set and aptitude.