History 101: Why the 2nd Amendment?

[jaeger19]

Then you would have been easy time proving it so get cracking.

Already did. I provided some links to us citizens being arrested and detained by ice after being abducted off the street.

Opinion noted.

There's not one. Who said there was?

There's not one.

What the **** are you talking about Ted off the street.

People laughing because they don't understand what the Constitution is doesn't offend me

You don’t understand the constitution.

I like you by what some lying sack of shit on some dying News Network. I'm sorry you fell for their lie but never trust a journalist when it comes to the Constitution.

Bingo. Exactly what a MAGA cultist would say . Tell me. What source do you trust? Let’s say several independent news organizations reporting the story ? Or one politician who wasn’t there ?
Who do you believe. ?

I don't care about being in the popular crowd I matured after high School.

Of course you care . It’s why you are maga. You can’t go against your idol trump. No matter what he does. Remember his promise to release the Epstein files ? Tell us what you think of that? Now suddenly you don’t care right if Trump was a pedophile or abused young girls.

So you do something about it quit demanding everyone else do it.

Oh I do. Part of that responsibility is explaining to ignorant people the important role that government funded research has in our economy, our health and our defense.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yeah no.
We’ve established that yes I know the truth .

Oh we've established that you think you do so do flat earthers.

We haven't established that you actually know it you seem real cagey about delivering on that kind of information I wonder why.

And that you live in fantasy trump land.
Tell you what . What exact “ left wing slogans “ have I repeated?
Explain how it’s left wing to think that before someone is arrested detained and or deported that due process .

The due processes for determining whether someone needs to be deported it's checking to see if they're legally here that doesn't take a trial or record it takes a few minutes I don't know why you get this idea that deportation is some sort of criminal sentence.

I. E they can hear the charges against them ,

I don't think they're charging them with anything, they're just sending them back to their home country.

That's not a sentence or a penalty the penalty is never come back and I'm okay with that they don't deserve to be here in the first place.

see the evidence and be afforded the opportunity to refute it in a court of law ?

You can't the evidence that you're here legally wouldn't exist if you're an illegal alien so we already know that that process is already finished so everything that's to do has been done by the time you get to the deportation.

You can't get up there and testify that you just accidentally came to the country without asking permission.

How is following the constitution “ left wing”.

By pretending the Constitution applies worldwide and that being sent to your home country is a sentence.

Neither one of those things are true.

Sure the Constitution applies if we're going to put an illegal alien in jail but we're not doing that we're kicking them out of the country but they don't belong here in the first place they should have never been here. That's entirely their fault and they can never produce any evidence that they just accidentally fell into the country.

 

[jaeger19]

Oh we've established that you think you do so do flat earthers.

We haven't established that you actually know it you seem real cagey about delivering on that kind of information I wonder why.

I’ve provided citations. As a maga , you of course ignore them because they create a cognitive dissonance in you.

The due processes for determining whether someone needs to be deported it's checking to see if they're legally here that doesn't take a trial or record it takes a few minutes I don't know why you get this idea that deportation is some sort of criminal sentence.

Wrong.

I don't think they're charging them with anything, they're just sending them back to their home country.

Wrong

That's not a sentence or a penalty the penalty is never come back and I'm okay with that they don't deserve to be here in the first place.

You can't the evidence that you're here legally wouldn't exist if you're an illegal alien so we already know that that process is already finished so everything that's to do has been done by the time you get to the deportation.

You can't get up there and testify that you just accidentally came to the country without asking permission.

By pretending the Constitution applies worldwide and that being sent to your home country is a sentence.

Neither one of those things are true.

Sure the Constitution applies if we're going to put an illegal alien in jail but we're not doing that we're kicking them out of the country but they don't belong here in the first place they should have never been here. That's entirely their fault and they can never produce any evidence that they just accidentally fell into the country.

Yeah. You just displayed how ignorant you are of the constitution. The constitution HAS to apply to everyone in the us or “ in the jurisdiction of the us” or it becomes completely useless.

Let’s say that ICE grabs you off the street and takes you to the Florida detention center.
You scream. “ I am a us citizen and can prove it”
They say “ no you aren’t”
And you are now deported to a third world prison.
Done.
Do you want that? Is that what you want America to be? That the executive branch can decide your fate without the right to a lawyer , right to contest your deportation. Just on their day so?
Because that’s what you currently support .

“ it takes a few minutes to see if you are here legally”.
Really? Do you carry your birth certificate around on your person? .

Silly maga.

Due process has to be afforded to everyone . So when a citizen gets erroneously picked up they can immediately question their detainment otherwise the executive branch can simply say. “ nope, you aren’t illegal” and away you go.

 

[CLAX1911]

I’ve provided citations.

Which post

As a maga

Better than a matw

, you of course ignore them because they create a cognitive dissonance in you.

Which post?

Wrong.

Wrong

Lie

Yeah. You just displayed how ignorant you are of the constitution.

Show me where is the Constitution that it says you get a right to a trial if you're illegally

The constitution HAS to apply to everyone in the us or “ in the jurisdiction of the us” or it becomes completely useless.

See above

Let’s say that ICE grabs you off the street and takes you to the Florida detention center.
You scream. “ I am a us citizen and can prove it”
They say “ no you aren’t”

And you are now deported to a third world prison.
Done.

Now imagine that The Boogeyman lives under your bed and reaches out and grabs you at night.

Do you want that? Is that what you want America to be?

Deporting citizens no. Deporting illegal aliens yes.

That the executive branch can decide your fate without the right to a lawyer , right to contest your deportation. Just on their day so?
Because that’s what you currently support .

Prove it

“ it takes a few minutes to see if you are here legally”.
Really? Do you carry your birth certificate around on your person? .

That's the only way you could prove your legally here?

Prove it

Silly maga.

Better than matw

Due process has to be afforded to everyone .

Okay so it's been determined that someone is illegally what is the process to determine?

What process jury trial years years so you can keep these people here and cheat in elections?

So when a citizen gets erroneously picked up they can immediately question their detainment otherwise the executive branch can simply say. “ nope, you aren’t illegal” and away you go.

Well you're skipping over the due process to determining that they're illegal alens.

I doubt they're just scooping up people to throw a good bit of wood chipper or whatever the hell crazy crap you believe.

 

[jaeger19]

Which post

Better than a matw

Which post?

Lie

Show me where is the Constitution that it says you get a right to a trial if you're illegally

See above


Now imagine that The Boogeyman lives under your bed and reaches out and grabs you at night.

Deporting citizens no. Deporting illegal aliens yes.

Prove it

That's the only way you could prove your legally here?

Prove it

Better than matw

Okay so it's been determined that someone is illegally what is the process to determine?

What process jury trial years years so you can keep these people here and cheat in elections?

Well you're skipping over the due process to determining that they're illegal alens.

I doubt they're just scooping up people to throw a good bit of wood chipper or whatever the hell crazy crap you believe.

Dude you just pointed out that its skipping over the due process to determine they are illegal aliens.
Thats what ICE is doing.

All the U.S. Citizens Who’ve Been Caught Up in Trump’s Immigration Crackdown​

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web.archive.org

And here is the kicker. Without due process there is little way to know how many mistakes have been made.

 

[CLAX1911]

Dude you just pointed out that its skipping over the due process to determine they are illegal aliens.

Lie

Thats what ICE is doing.

Prove it.

All the U.S. Citizens Who’ve Been Caught Up in Trump’s Immigration Crackdown​

Loading…

web.archive.org

Prove this source correct

And here is the kicker. Without due process there is little way to know how many mistakes have been made.

What due process?

 

[jaeger19]

Lie

Prove it.

Prove this source correct

What due process?

Dude there is no lying from me. Just ignorance on your part.
It’s evidence of you being a member of the maga cult.
“ trump would never make a mistake or do anything wrong”

Despite that I presented you that ICEs own records indicate they deported us citizens.

Due process is that when you get detained you are immediately allowed to make phone calls so people know where you are.
You immediately get to see a lawyer who can intercede on your behalf and can petition the courts to contest your detainment and that you get to go to a court to question that detainment and bring records etc to prove you’ve been detained illegally /erroneously. And that you cannot be deported until it’s been adjudicated by a court they you are in fact here illegally and don’t have a legal case for asylum.

Without that , the executive branch could literally simply arrest citizens , say people who vote republican even , and detain and deport them without anyone knowing .

Thats what you are ignorantly supporting .
You of course don’t care as long as it’s only brown citizens they are doing this too.

 

[CLAX1911]

Dude there is no lying from me.

Another lie

Just ignorance on your part.
It’s evidence of you being a member of the maga cult.
“ trump would never make a mistake or do anything wrong”

Despite that I presented you that ICEs own records indicate they deported us citizens.

Due process is that when you get detained you are immediately allowed to make phone calls so people know where you are.
You immediately get to see a lawyer who can intercede on your behalf and can petition the courts to contest your detainment and that you get to go to a court to question that detainment and bring records etc to prove you’ve been detained illegally /erroneously. And that you cannot be deported until it’s been adjudicated by a court they you are in fact here illegally and don’t have a legal case for asylum.

Without that , the executive branch could literally simply arrest citizens , say people who vote republican even , and detain and deport them without anyone knowing .

Thats what you are ignorantly supporting .
You of course don’t care as long as it’s only brown citizens they are doing this too.

 

[jaeger19]

Another lie

Nope.
Thanks for proving my point about the MAGA cult.

 

[CLAX1911]

Nope.
Thanks for proving my point about the MAGA cult.

Beats the matw death cult all day every day.

 

[jaeger19]

Beats the matw death cult all day every day.

You mean it beats being a patriotic American that wants a free America

 

[CLAX1911]

You mean it beats being a patriotic American that wants a free America

No I got to be make America great again.

Matw which is your cult beats make America terrible and weak.

You don't what a free America for Americans you want a free America for Invaders.

Your cult is absolute shit.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

Trying to assert that the 2A’s militia clause was intended to limit the type (subset?) of people having those rights, rather than the type (subset) of arms to which it applies has never been the case under federal law.

It wasn't intended to give rights to ANY individuals. It was intended to protect the well regulated militia.

Perhaps, a quick look at various states’ constitutions will clarify that fact:

State Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms Provisions

www2.law.ucla.edu

What analyzing state constitution tells us is that if the founders had wanted to address some "right" to own weapons for personal use, they would have INCLUDED it. The same way that some states included it. In fact they DID include it in the House version. But then was removed by the Senate. Because that was never the purpose of the 2nd A. Scalia made that up to "justify" his Heller legislation.

See this link for specifics.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It wasn't intended to give rights to ANY individuals. It was intended to protect the well regulated militia.


What analyzing state constitution tells us is that if the founders had wanted to address some "right" to own weapons for personal use, they would have INCLUDED it. The same way that some states included it. In fact they DID include it in the House version. But then was removed by the Senate. Because that was never the purpose of the 2nd A. Scalia made that up to "justify" his Heller legislation.

See this link for specifics.

Which federal gun law(s) limited gun possession to “well regulated militia” members?

 

[Feynman Lives!]

Which federal gun law(s) limited gun possession to “well regulated militia” members?

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no need for well-regulated militias now that we have a standing army. So why would they even mention well regulated militias in a law? The 2nd A is simply as obsolete and meaningless in today's reality as the 3rd A is.

I see you had no answer to the point I made. So I guess now it's clear why Congress did NOT do include what States included in THEIR constitutions.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no need for well-regulated militias now that we have a standing army. So why would they even mention well regulated militias in a law? The 2nd A is simply as obsolete and meaningless in today's reality as the 3rd A is.

I see you had no answer to the point I made. So I guess now it's clear why Congress did NOT do include what States included in THEIR constitutions.

Good luck getting the 2A repealed or deemed meaningless by the SCOTUS.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

Good luck getting the 2A repealed or deemed meaningless by the SCOTUS.

Not the Roberts court, of course. They are too eager to use their power to legislate from the bench.

But repealing it is not the point of this thread. The point is that the 2nd A has NOTHING to do with some "right" to own weapons. And your response indicates that you realize that my case is made.

Thanks for playing....

 

[Bullseye]

I don't know what you're talking about. There is no need for well-regulated militias now that we have a standing army. So why would they even mention well regulated militias in a law? The 2nd A is simply as obsolete and meaningless in today's reality as the 3rd A is.

I see you had no answer to the point I made. So I guess now it's clear why Congress did NOT do include what States included in THEIR constitution

The Framers intended the Constitution to be a top level framework left intentionally vague in order the allow states to fill I the details. They understood human progress would quickly come into conflict with a Constitution covering print every possible circumstance and eventuality.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not the Roberts court, of course. They are too eager to use their power to legislate from the bench.

But repealing it is not the point of this thread. The point is that the 2nd A has NOTHING to do with some "right" to own weapons. And your response indicates that you realize that my case is made.

Thanks for playing....

That ^^^^ seems to conflict with “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

 

[Feynman Lives!]

That ^^^^ seems to conflict with “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

Not with "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". You would need to arbitrarily eliminate the parts that you don't like to TRY to make a case. But, even then, it wouldn't work for anybody who understands what the idiom "to keep and bear arms" MEANS.... And, of course, the historical facts that this thread DEMONSTRATES and that tie it all together.

 

[jaeger19]

No I got to be make America great again.

America has always been great… until we forgot WHY America was great . Because it was a bastion for
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

You have no idea where that is inscribed do you.

Matw which is your cult beats make America terrible and weak.

Being mean to people weaker and poorer than yourself isn’t “ strength”.
Being petty and hateful isn’t strength.

You don't what a free a yourself isn’t America for Americans you want a free America for Invaders.

Pish. You give up American freedoms like due process and the constitution because trump has made you afraid.
“ invaders , invaders, protect me daddy trump”
“ whatever will we do without trump to protect us?” Please take more freedom from us daddy trump!”

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither

Your cult is absolute shit.

I am a patriot that believes in American freedom.

 

[CLAX1911]

America has always been great… until we forgot WHY America was great . Because it was a bastion for
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

You have no idea where that is inscribed do you.

Being mean to people weaker and poorer than yourself isn’t “ strength”.
Being petty and hateful isn’t strength.

So stop.

Pish. You give up American freedoms like due process and the constitution because trump has made you afraid.
“ invaders , invaders, protect me daddy trump”
“ whatever will we do without trump to protect us?” Please take more freedom from us daddy trump!”

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither

I am a patriot that believes in American freedom.

 

[jaeger19]

So stop.

Stopping is against what has made America great.
America is great because the smartest , toughest, hardest working people who value freedom have and still do risk everything to cross oceans , deserts, miles of dangerous country to come to a country where hard work and smarts matter more they where or to whom you were born.

America is strong because of these people .

It’s not strong when weak scared people will give up their freedom because of fear .

“ eek we are being invaded by people who will work harder than we will. Save us daddy trump. “
Lmao.

 

[CLAX1911]

Stopping is against what has made America great.

Stop trying to make it terrible just because you have a bee in your bonnet about an election not going your way.

 

[jaeger19]

Stop trying to make it terrible just because you have a bee in your bonnet about an election not going your way.

Loss of freedom is never a good thing . No matter who is president.