Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's plans to build border wall

[SenorXm/Sirius]

which is why this is great, now the republicans in office have to be on record opposing this common sense border security issue, and when push comes to shove they're going to fall in line and pay for the fence,

They, as the US Taxpayers are going to pay for it? What happened to the Mexicans paying for it? Oh yeah. It now ok for the anti politician Trump to lie like a politician because he's got an (R) after his name.

 

[eohrnberger]

That drain will continue with or without walls, tariffs, etc. Until Mexico's wages go up, which will only happen as the economy grows. Punitive tariffs are contrary to the interests of the United States in the long run.

So in other words, the future you are predicting is for the US and middle class living conditions and wealth to fall, to fill or raise the same for all the other nations of the world until they are all about equal.

That's in essence a zero sum gain, contrary to your earlier statement. And also, you state that such is in the best interests of the US.

Man, that's a dark future you are imagining for the US.

I'm not necessarily so certain as you appear to be that this is the only way. Why is it that the Mexicans are incapable of marshaling their resources and building their own economy to be successful? At least in this case it would really be their economy and not one siphoned off of someone else's.

After all, that wish you earn on your own is cherished far more than what which is given to you.

 

[trouble13]

Canada has thirty million people that enjoy a higher standard of living than most Americans. I know I am an American living in Canada. We would have to (for our own profit) invest in the Mexican commodities market, and their infrastructure, develop franchises, give them a bank that isn't foreign dependent. And raise their general standard of living to see a similar relationship to the one Canada shares with us. Plus Canada isn't an ag based economy directly competing with our subsidized ag economy. Mexico does try to subsidize, but let's be honest, it's an elephant vs ant when it comes economic might.

In other words, our middle class needs to invest in the Mexican middle class like our top 1 percent invests in our middle class (which is well below our lower classes in terms of wealth). Lots of profit in it. And we can even profit from investing in prisons in Mexico for all those Cartel members. Model it after our own for profit prison system...

And after we get Mexico settled, we can keep go down to South America. I would like to see every American living off of an income generated by investing in Mexico and South America. Why should we work, when we can use our money to work for us. And help people.

What is mexicos cash crop that american farming is preventing?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[SheWolf]

If Trump wants that border wall so badly, let him pay for it out of his own pocket, instead of picking mine.

Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com

I wonder how many of his supporters actually care about the wall?

 

[nota bene]

I know you Cons won't mind. You're a gullible bunch. The GOP has been lying to you guys for DECADES about the immigration issue. Another Republican/Businessman comes along and lies to you again? So given the Con Republican base's history? I'm sure you won't mind paying for it, and being lied to, yet again.

You know what's not a lie? My living in a border state and experiencing the problems that illegal immigrants have caused in my community--overburdening medical resources and increased criminal activities. When you live in a city the size of mine and can name multiple people who have been killed and many others whose lives have been ruined because of this, there really is a problem.

 

[sanman]

If Trump wants that border wall so badly, let him pay for it out of his own pocket, instead of picking mine.

Your criminal drug trafficker friends are already robbing Americans, never mind just picking their pockets.

I'm all for increased border security, but a wall in and of itself is a security illusion. A multifaceted approach is required.

A Wall in no way prevents other security measures, so your nitpickery is just deflection

Without commensurate offsets, this project immensely increases deficit spending. And no, I don't believe Mexico City is going to appropriate billions for US security.

What specific offsets - Trump is in favor of a variety of spending cuts. How did you conclude otherwise?

Mexico can suffer import duties if it won't cooperate willingly.

 

[danarhea]

if there is no wall then there is no amnesty fir any illegal alien in America

even if they are model citizens with American children

liberals think they can nix the wall and they hen get what they want but the t the ont happen that way

you get nuthin for nuthin without the wall

Ain't Liberals nixing the wall. It's a Republican Congress. Read the link.

 

[danarhea]

Your criminal drug trafficker friends are already robbing Americans, never mind just picking their pockets.



A Wall in no way prevents other security measures, so your nitpickery is just deflection



What specific offsets - Trump is in favor of a variety of spending cuts. How did you conclude otherwise?

Mexico can suffer import duties if it won't cooperate willingly.

My Hispanic friends don't run drugs. Racist much?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

You know what's not a lie? My living in a border state and experiencing the problems that illegal immigrants have caused in my community--overburdening medical resources and increased criminal activities. When you live in a city the size of mine and can name multiple people who have been killed and many others whose lives have been ruined because of this, there really is a problem.

Yeah well, blame the GOP too. I posted a LINK on what's going on in TEXAS, of all places. The businesses love immigrants, and the GOP loves businesses.

That's ALL I'm asking. For phony partisan Republican hacks to FINALLY realize the GOP is just as guilty as the Dems on leaving the border open. Of all the evidence that the GOP is guilty too we are still bombarded daily from Republicans here with BS about the Dems are the only ones letting illegals in 'so they can vote Dem'. Which is nonsense.

You live in a Red State? Look at what's going on in your state and for ONCE hold your REPUBLICAN politicians feet to the fire. Don't fall for the BS that's it's all the Dems fault. When you fall for that BS all you are doing is letting the GOP off the hook.

 

[Media_Truth]

If I recall, part of the EU economic membership is an agreement to have open borders between the member nations. What we have seen is a flood of refugees at the shores of one member nation continue unabated to all the other member nations. So it's very pertinent to you raising the question of EU nations building walls. That's not something that I brought into the discussion.

A sovereign nation has the right to determine whom shall be admitted entrance to the nation and who should not. Not being able to make this determination clearly is a degradation of a nation's sovereign rights.

Is Brussels a dictatorship? No. But that's a red herring. It's not a question of Brussels being a dictatorship, but a question of whether Brussels has degraded EU member nations sovereignty, and I think in this case, the answer is yes for the reasons that I've laid out above.

Again, the whole question is not a wall or not, the question is secure borders and curbing illegal immigration. Do try to keep up with the discussion and how it progresses.

Yes, and despite all of this, Europe is not building walls. With all those countries in close proximity of one another, they have the potential for much worse problems than those of the US. The Trump deficit spending starts here...

 

[eohrnberger]

Yes, and despite all of this, Europe is not building walls. With all those countries in close proximity of one another, they have the potential for much worse problems than those of the US. The Trump deficit spending starts here...

Yes, and despite all of this, Europe is not building walls. With all those countries in close proximity of one another, they have the potential for much worse problems than those of the US. The Trump deficit spending starts here...

The situation of these EU neighboring states is not similar to the situation between the US and Mexico.

In the EU, these bordering nations are all first world equals. Mexico isn't a first world nation, while the US is. Therein lies the difference.

Those that assembled the EU were well aware of this, and the issues that such disparity could cause, hence, they were very careful about which nations were allowed to join at the onset of the EU as well as those who joined later on.

As observed in other posts in this forum, as long as Mexico's economic opportunities aren't as good as those in the US, there'll be a draw for Mexicans to immigrate to the US, be it legally, which is fine, or be it illegally, which is in violation of US federal law.

If the border-less idea is going to work, such as in the EU, it needs to be between nations as equals, and on equal economic footing, hence there really isn't a need for the EU nations to build walls and secure their borders - at least not for economic reasons, whereas between US and Mexico, there is a need for securing the border.

Even though you believe that nations aren't building walls, there are some that are, and other that have always had them.

More neighbours make more fences

Hungary says a border fence with Romania may be next

So even though you believe there are no border barriers between EU nations, due to the refugee crisis, Hungary is considering a border fence between it and Romania.

 

[bluesmoke]

If Trump wants that border wall so badly, let him pay for it out of his own pocket, instead of picking mine.

Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com

Seriously. How do you think he got started? He'll take out a loan, guaranteed by the USG. The payment will be based on how many are prevented from crossing the borders. I say "borders" because we have Canada and the East and West coast. How is that number of "preventions" is determined? The devil is in the details. You can't google what you were there to see and know. You are presenting a hypothesis that is answered over a table between people you'll never know.

 

[jonny5]

Canada has thirty million people that enjoy a higher standard of living than most Americans. I know I am an American living in Canada. We would have to (for our own profit) invest in the Mexican commodities market, and their infrastructure, develop franchises, give them a bank that isn't foreign dependent. And raise their general standard of living to see a similar relationship to the one Canada shares with us. Plus Canada isn't an ag based economy directly competing with our subsidized ag economy. Mexico does try to subsidize, but let's be honest, it's an elephant vs ant when it comes economic might.

In other words, our middle class needs to invest in the Mexican middle class like our top 1 percent invests in our middle class (which is well below our lower classes in terms of wealth). Lots of profit in it. And we can even profit from investing in prisons in Mexico for all those Cartel members. Model it after our own for profit prison system...

And after we get Mexico settled, we can keep go down to South America. I would like to see every American living off of an income generated by investing in Mexico and South America. Why should we work, when we can use our money to work for us. And help people.

The problem there is corruption. Your money will be stolen, consumed in bribes, used for criminal activity, and the govt might just take your business when its all done.

 

[Mac77]

Ain't Liberals nixing the wall. It's a Republican Congress. Read the link.

Do I care if its liberal democrats or establishment republicans pushing for an open border?

No

They all need to be defeated

 

[Nickyjo]

the hispanic roofing contactor with an all illegal alien crew probably voted democrat

Wouldn't it be ironic if they got the contract to build the wall! Are those workers among the 3 million Pence will interview in his (probably soon to be forgotten) study of voter fraud? As Trump said, no doubt all voted for Clinton. (I have done some successful organizing in my time but have to say that Saul Alinsky would come out of his grave to award a gold medal to whoever pulled this voter thing off, no doubt the greatest fraud in human history.)

Returning to your comment, you may be right that the Hispanic roofer (so long as he wasn't Cuban) might have voted democratic... People don't like being called rapists by a racist. But those here illegally are in every industry... And I have to presume that most employers are republicans... But my statement about migration of capital and labor still holds, I believe. Trump raises a defensible argument, keeping capital here and foreign labor out... But he is bucking history... Protectionist/rightist stages we are seeing have historical precedent, but history of the last 100 plus years has a liberal movement.

A solution to this complex migration problem might involve policies that raise wages, heavy fines or jail for those who knowingly employ illegals, et al. But it is part of the fascist playbook to target those in weaker positions, workers, not employers...and before you react to the word "fascism", note how Trump's candidacy conforms to the historical pattern...

I decided to study the phenomenon, and with the help of the library noted similarities between now and the 1930s... It's always dangerous to go all Hitler on someone in an article, but forget Adolf... The keys here are Mussolini, Franco, Fr. Caughlin in the USA, etc.:

Fascist characteristics... 1- an attempt to return to a nation's past glory, whether of Rome, the Spanish empire or Make America Great Again; 2- Strongman syndrome: Spanish coins celebrated Franco as "caudillo" of Spain by the grace of God... Trump: "Only I can fix these problems." 3- focus on external/internal enemies: communists in the 30s, illegals and judges now. 4- demean the institutions you don't control, such as courts: e.g. Mexican-Am judge biased, "so-called judge"; demonstrators are paid, UC Berkeley responsible for anarchist riots. Add to this the shameless lies: media doesn't cover terrorist actions, crowd sizes, "alternative facts," etc.

Hope is that the courts, the media and the streets will keep the Boy King honest.

 

[Mac77]

Wouldn't it be ironic if they got the contract to build the wall! Are those workers among the 3 million Pence will interview in his (probably soon to be forgotten) study of voter fraud? As Trump said, no doubt all voted for Clinton. (I have done some successful organizing in my time but have to say that Saul Alinsky would come out of his grave to award a gold medal to whoever pulled this voter thing off, no doubt the greatest fraud in human history.)

It's a big problem and I would not be surprised if some illegal aliens were hired to work on the wall

Which would be somewhat embarrassing if that's what you're hoping for

OTOH that would prompt the trump administration to tighten e-verify and end up hurting illegals in general

Returning to your comment, you may be right that the Hispanic roofer (so long as he wasn't Cuban) might have voted democratic... People don't like being called rapists by a racist. But those here illegally are in every industry...

And I have to presume that most employers are republicans...

But my statement about migration of capital and labor still holds, I believe. Trump raises a defensible argument, keeping capital here and foreign labor out... But he is bucking history... Protectionist/rightist stages we are seeing have historical precedent, but history of the last 100 plus years has a liberal movement.

The roofer is a sub contractor so he is also an employer

A solution to this complex migration problem might involve policies that raise wages, heavy fines or jail for those who knowingly employ illegals, et al. But it is part of the fascist playbook to target those in weaker positions, workers, not employers...and before you react to the word "fascism", note how Trump's candidacy conforms to the historical pattern...

I also want to raise wages but by limiting the supply of cheap illegal labor in the marketplace so that employers have to hire legal workers at prevailing wage rates

Fascist characteristics... 1- an attempt to return to a nation's past glory, whether of Rome, the Spanish empire or Make America Great Again; 2- Strongman syndrome: Spanish coins celebrated Franco as "caudillo" of Spain by the grace of God... Trump: "Only I can fix these problems." 3- focus on external/internal enemies: communists in the 30s, illegals and judges now. 4- demean the institutions you don't control, such as courts: e.g. Mexican-Am judge biased, "so-called judge"; demonstrators are paid, UC Berkeley responsible for anarchist riots. Add to this the shameless lies: media doesn't cover terrorist actions, crowd sizes, "alternative facts," etc.

Hope is that the courts, the media and the streets will keep the Boy King honest.

The definitions being given are for what fascism was in the 1930's and are somewhat outdated today

Rather than being nationalist modern progressives are globalist

Rather than hating minorities modern fascists are pro minority and tend to be anti white

But otherwise they still think government is the solution to all our problems and tolerate no thoughts or bellies other than their own

 

[Objective Voice]

you are mistaken that whites didn't care a out the illegal alien problem till one of them killed a white girl

there has been a cry to stop the flood of illegals since 1986

but anyone who wanted a wall or wanted to deport illegal aliens was labeled a bigot by almost everyone with access to a microphone

meaning the common people were being ignored by the elites

there are many murders robberies and rapes of Americans by illegal aliens that go unnoticed by politicans llike bush and obama

kate steinle just happened to be the one that finally got attention

maybe becsuse she was a pretty white girl

but if so I will take that since nothing else seems to awaken some people from their stupor

And that's the point I'm trying to make here.

Yes, undocument Mexicans crossing the southern border has long been a problem. I've been saying it for years myself. I'm just saying there didn't seem to be an issue with it nationally until this white girl died while a Black Democrat President was in office. Until then, those in power didn't seem to care and that's politicians on both sides of the isle. I just found it interesting how her death became a rallying cry for tougher border security first by right-wing talking heads and then by everyone else.

Sidenote: I really don't mean to sound insensitive about this girl's death. I think it's tragic. But to be fair and totally honest, she's not the first to die because some illegal Mexican somehow crossed over into our country, got drunk, got behind the wheel of a car, hit a car and cost someone there life. We had three such incident here in Huntsville, AL over the last 5 years but there deaths didn't garner the kind of attention this girl's did. President Obama's ICE memo had alot to do with it. Maybe that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Mac77]

And that's the point I'm trying to make here.

Yes, undocument Mexicans crossing the southern border has long been a problem. I've been saying it for years myself. I'm just saying there didn't seem to be an issue with it nationally until this white girl died while a Black Democrat President was in office. Until then, those in power didn't seem to care and that's politicians on both sides of the isle. I just found it interesting how her death became a rallying cry for tougher border security first by right-wing talking heads and then by everyone else.

Sidenote: I really don't mean to sound insensitive about this girl's death. I think it's tragic. But to be fair and totally honest, she's not the first to die because some illegal Mexican somehow crossed over into our country, got drunk, got behind the wheel of a car, hit a car and cost someone there life. We had three such incident here in Huntsville, AL over the last 5 years but there deaths didn't garner the kind of attention this girl's did. President Obama's ICE memo had alot to do with it. Maybe that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

it has been a national issue since the eisenhower adminatration created Operation Wetback

and it was a nationwl issue leading up to the 1986 amnesty for 3 million illegal aliens

which was supposed to solve the problem forever but didnt

when you say it wasnt an issue before kate steinely what you mean is that smug liberals and establishment republicans took no notice of it

the rest of us have been demanding a wall for 30 years

 

[Peter King]

The US government brought in $3.6 trillion in revenues last year, meaning the border wall would cost less than one half of one percent of that revenue. It's a drop in the bucket and a damned worthy endeavor. We need to secure our nation and building that wall is a good first step.

I suspect the wall is going to be a lot lot lot more expensive than Trump says/believes it is going to cost. The lawsuits the government will be defending against and the State rights/private rights/not being legal to build near a river (like in Texas)/etc. etc. etc.

And then I am not even talking about the actual cost of building the wall. And for what? Fake security? Because the number of people who illegally overstay on their visa's will not be solved by this for one second.

 

[d0gbreath]

With Trump in charge? Yeah, I'd take that bet....

Not paying contractors does help keep the price down.

 

[Nickyjo]

No problem with criticism of progressives, they (we) may be wrong or evil, but not fascists in the 1930s sense...

But I do believe the analysis of the 30s applies today, as my post pointed out. Trump is a classic strongman, attractive to many in these real or perceived difficult times. The West looked to strongmen, from Franco (bad) to FDR (good) during such times. Trump just adds fascist-like tendencies to the mix. I am not using fascist in a negative sense as an epithet. If there is a better, less-charged word, I'm fine with it. But his rhetoric and even his optics show it at times: the escalator descent was one, coming down to join us mere mortals (Hitler was the first to descent to campaign rallies from an airplane) ... but most remarkable was his appearance, almost in black-and-white, out of the fog-like lighting at the GOP convention. The great documentarian of the Reich, Leni Riefenstahl, couldn't have designed it better. It was straight out of the German expressionism of the 1930s. (I am a film noir freak, and German expressionism was a big influence on those wonderful films.).

He is fascist in style if he isn't in substance. Like Adolf, he professes to know more than the generals... Just yesterday he reminded us that he was best at something, tho I can't remember what it was this time.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

If Trump wants that border wall so badly, let him pay for it out of his own pocket, instead of picking mine.

Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com

If people want to fund illegal aliens, let them pay for it. cut off all government benefits.

 

[Mac77]

No problem with criticism of progressives, they (we) may be wrong or evil,

but not fascists in the 1930s sense...

But I do believe the analysis of the 30s applies today, as my post pointed out. Trump is a classic strongman, attractive to many in these real or perceived difficult times. The West looked to strongmen, from Franco (bad) to FDR (good) during such times. Trump just adds fascist-like tendencies to the mix. I am not using fascist in a negative sense as an epithet. If there is a better, less-charged word, I'm fine with it. But his rhetoric and even his optics show it at times: the escalator descent was one, coming down to join us mere mortals (Hitler was the first to descent to campaign rallies from an airplane) ... but most remarkable was his appearance, almost in black-and-white, out of the fog-like lighting at the GOP convention. The great documentarian of the Reich, Leni Riefenstahl, couldn't have designed it better. It was straight out of the German expressionism of the 1930s. (I am a film noir freak, and German expressionism was a big influence on those wonderful films.).

He is fascist in style if he isn't in substance. Like Adolf, he professes to know more than the generals... Just yesterday he reminded us that he was best at something, tho I can't remember what it was this time.

Modern progressives practice their own brand of fascism that is different from what the nazis did in the 1930s

But they are fundimentally related

 

[Nickyjo]

If people want to fund illegal aliens, let them pay for it. cut off all government benefits.

No offense, but your profile has you as libertarian. Isn't migration just another aspect of the free market, with employers seeking lower costs and workers seeking higher return on their labor? Illegal, slow-able, but more or less unstoppable, like the illegal aliens who settled the west contrary to treaties with the annoying Indians, or the settlers who rushed into Texas, ignoring Mexico's laws. (Mexicans wanted bracero-like settlers and got Davy Crockett.)

Furthermore, our country has been addicted to cheap labor, from slaves to pre-union mines and mills to current sweatshops. The same political types who grumble about illegals, also oppose unions, minimum wage hikes, etc. Nice having it both ways.

Mexicans love to joke about this migration with me, saying that the Southwest was "prestado," loaned to us... That the three largest cities in Mexico, were Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Los Angeles... That if we don't stop illegals, Mexicans will change all our place-names names in Calif, Arizona, etc., to Spanish.

 

[fmw]

If Trump wants that border wall so badly, let him pay for it out of his own pocket, instead of picking mine.

Hill Republicans revolt over Trump's border wall - CNNPolitics.com

Does that hold true for all public expenditures or just for the ones you don't like?