Hey, Californians: What the heck is going on out there?

[code1211]

The relationship between CO2 levels and climate is not controversial. Saying "correlation is not causation" is a willfully ignorant argument at this point. Causation has long been established.

Really?

Why don't you explain EXACTLY what the relation between CO2 and Climate might be.

The concept of "Diminishing Impact" will need to play a very, very large role in your explanation.

 

[code1211]

I said the bolded^. You must be replying to another poster. :roll:

It seems I must be misinterpreting what you are trying to present.

 

[code1211]

You know very well how CO2 levels from the past have been determined, and there is nothing wrong with the methods used. Stop playing dumb.

If you knew me better, you would know that I am not playing.

However, the recent saw tooth, annual reads of CO2 are actually pretty well measured. The methodology, at least, is fairly consistent month to month and year to year.

The proxy records for both CO2 and for temperature are good indicators, but don't really tell us anything beyond general directions or general concepts.

I've always felt that the difference between the Proxies and the instruments is the difference between a calendar and a stop watch.

The Younger Dryas temperature changes, both cooling then warming, were severe and dramatic. This really doesn't show up as a real big thingy according to the proxies.

However, globally, it produced an extinction level event for various species. The temperature changes, both the cooling and the warming, was vastly MORE dramatic than the changes we are seeing today.

There was no obvious marker left in the normal proxies, but everything died so the folks who are interested kept digging. Literally.

Upon further review, they determined that something was big happened and they tried to find out what that was.

 

[code1211]

Nope. Human activity has directly increased CO2 in the atmosphere, and that has led to warming of the globe. This isn't up for debate anymore - you either willfully ignore evidence, or you accept and learn from it.

Please describe the mechanics of the change you propose and explain why it only work half of the time.

 

[code1211]

Better than living back in the Chicago winters... So, yeah, since '86 I've suffered through all that beautiful sunshine.

I moved away from Minnesota winters.

I know what you mean.

I was going say, "I feel you", but worried that I might be stepping across some kind of PC kind of a line.

 

[Paradoxical]

Obviously, no. We are what we are and we are what we were.

The high priests, whether they are the Climastrologists or the Social Justice Warriors site problems, connect them to unrelated events, call the events causes and then shriek that Change is needed.

In every example, the message is that we are Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. The Climastrologists or the Social Justice Warriors alone, they warn, have the solution. Follow them or we're all DOOMED!

It is used so often and follows exactly the same steps every time that it is no longer surprising to watch the campaigns move forward.

Just FYI, I was raised as a Catholic by nuns and from a family of eleven. The nuns were some of the kindest people on the planet. However, in my twenties, I decided that the story was way too far fetched, illogical and improbable to believe any longer. In denouncing Christianity, I found that Christians are very tribal and use devious means to denigrate and ostracize non believers as a shot across the bow to warn others thinking of leaving their group. MOST conservatives are Christians and when I say I am a firm non believer, their tribal nature kicks in. This is just the way humans are. Those who leave the tribe are taught a stern lesson. This prelude is to attempt to illustrate the tactics used by tribal leaders the world over to keep their members in check. This is why you rarely see any cross over of beliefs. For instance, if I was in a crowd of Republicans who knew I was one and the subject of religion came up, I would be expected to be like them.....a CHRISTIAN and if I disparaged things like the bible or the resurrection, the fur would fly. This is how humans control other humans and much of life is about controlling others and gaining power over another.

When you look at the tactics of both sides, we see the left wing now using the time honored tactics of the Christians and other religious cults. When you read the posts here of the left wingers (socialists, progressives, liberals) you see the identical patters that religious cults have used for centuries. If you stray, you are denigrated, ostracized, ridiculed, shamed and cast out of the cult. This global warming hysteria ad now COVID hysteria is identical to how religious cults act. You don't believe their (alleged) scientists, you are shamed and embarrassed. Worse now, if you don't believe their is institutionalized racism, you are not only ridiculed and shamed, you business will be burned, you will be beaten and possibly killed.

In 2020, the tribal nature of humanity is on full display. We must not let their side get away with beating us into submission, either verbally or physically. If these riots keep up there will inevitably be push back with tribal groups like the Proud Boys in physical combat with the thugs and criminals in BLM and Antifa and it will turn ugly.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Just FYI, I was raised as a Catholic by nuns and from a family of eleven. The nuns were some of the kindest people on the planet. However, in my twenties, I decided that the story was way too far fetched, illogical and improbable to believe any longer. In denouncing Christianity,....

You substituted one cult for another.....while rejecting science and reason.

bizarre.

 

[Paradoxical]

You substituted one cult for another.....while rejecting science and reason.

bizarre.

There is no science that proves masks are effective, There is just speculation. Actual events show they do NOT work.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

There is no science that proves masks are effective, There is just speculation. Actual events show they do NOT work.

I did not ask you to prove my point....again.

I said you reject science and reason....and you just go right on doing it....while ignoring the 1st part, the total fealty to "conservatism".

The MASSIVE level of cognitive dissonance is astounding.

 

[Moi621]

When I was a grade school age student, California was generally regarded as a utopia that everyone should aspire to.

I moved there in 1986 and found it to be an irrigated desert with WAAAY too many people. Moved out again after four months.

Now, we see
-wild fires raging through almost the whole year,
-brown outs because the power grid is apparently failing and
-government officials refusing to allow minimum freedoms to their subjects while flaunting their own privilege.

This is not even calling out the mountains of used hypodermic needles, the homeless crises, the ridiculously high taxes and the aging infrastructure.

The last time I flew into LAX, it was like a trip in the Way Back Machine to the 80's.

How is this socialist experiment working for you all?

No one, except the City of Laguna Beach, Calif. & goats

considers the role of herbivores.


Herbivores eat that flammable brush and create protein while
fertilizing the area they graze.
Cliven Bundy and The Hammond Family and their neighbors respect that.
Federal bureaucrats thousands of miles away don't "get it".

End Federal Occupation of State's land in the West





The fires are a failure of the Federals
and their land management.

Every State is a Bonnie Blue Flag that bares a single Star! hurrah!


Moi
Lamenting the loss of the 10th of "our" Bill of Rights

Don't :2canadianize

:2usflag:​

 

[code1211]

The whole planet didn’t shut down for 8 months. That was us due to Trump’s decision to kill Americans with the plague. And it’s still a small sample size.

You have no idea about any of this. You just want to argue.

I assume you think your posts are not vacuous.

 

[code1211]

Am I a black clad wearing bomb throwing america hater or a beads wearing woman who operates on universal feelings of nurturing? Which stereotype will you self-soothe with as you get your ass kicked in an exchange about science?

Your insults are as weak as your arguments and your knees.

Your post are filled with venom and hate.

 

[Luther]

Here are the reasons for the fires, as I am pretending you care.


Explainer: How climate change is affecting wildfires around the world

California is huge, and has always had more homeless problems.

Who'''s to blame for California'''s rotating blackouts? - Los Angeles Times
Reasons for blackouts, if you care, again I doubt it.

But, if you love Trump and money, then why aren't you appreciating this?
The economy of California is the largest in the United States, boasting a $3.2 trillion gross state product as of 2019. If California were a sovereign nation (2019), it would rank as the world's fifth largest economy, ahead of India and behind Germany.
GDP: $3.1 trillion (2019)

Isn't the economy part of the reason you love Trump?

Here are the reasons for the fires, as I am pretending you care.

Here is a few of the biggest reason for the fires

Calif has always been dry

Califs pop has almost doubled since 1980(Hello)

 

[code1211]

Just FYI, I was raised as a Catholic by nuns and from a family of eleven. The nuns were some of the kindest people on the planet. However, in my twenties, I decided that the story was way too far fetched, illogical and improbable to believe any longer. In denouncing Christianity, I found that Christians are very tribal and use devious means to denigrate and ostracize non believers as a shot across the bow to warn others thinking of leaving their group. MOST conservatives are Christians and when I say I am a firm non believer, their tribal nature kicks in. This is just the way humans are. Those who leave the tribe are taught a stern lesson. This prelude is to attempt to illustrate the tactics used by tribal leaders the world over to keep their members in check. This is why you rarely see any cross over of beliefs. For instance, if I was in a crowd of Republicans who knew I was one and the subject of religion came up, I would be expected to be like them.....a CHRISTIAN and if I disparaged things like the bible or the resurrection, the fur would fly. This is how humans control other humans and much of life is about controlling others and gaining power over another.

When you look at the tactics of both sides, we see the left wing now using the time honored tactics of the Christians and other religious cults. When you read the posts here of the left wingers (socialists, progressives, liberals) you see the identical patters that religious cults have used for centuries. If you stray, you are denigrated, ostracized, ridiculed, shamed and cast out of the cult. This global warming hysteria ad now COVID hysteria is identical to how religious cults act. You don't believe their (alleged) scientists, you are shamed and embarrassed. Worse now, if you don't believe their is institutionalized racism, you are not only ridiculed and shamed, you business will be burned, you will be beaten and possibly killed.

In 2020, the tribal nature of humanity is on full display. We must not let their side get away with beating us into submission, either verbally or physically. If these riots keep up there will inevitably be push back with tribal groups like the Proud Boys in physical combat with the thugs and criminals in BLM and Antifa and it will turn ugly.

Tribalism does seem to be a "thing".

The Christians you have been hanging around seem to be less faithful than they are religious. EVERYONE Christ met was not a Christian and yet he welcomed them. The folks you cite who call themselves Christians really are not.

I am distressed by the current violence and riots as they proclaim that the problems of individuals are not related to the actions of those same individuals.

I have found in my life that anything that I do or do not do in my today affects my tomorrow. Blaming others is a waste of time. For one thing, they don't care and, because of that, it doesn't help.

People who view themselves as having failed probably want their participation trophy. So what?

They know in their hearts that their life is a wreck, they've been taught they are not the responsible for outcomes and now seek to be bailed out. Again. They've cried and been bailed out their entire life.

Society exists to help the weak survive in a harsh world, not to give them a free ride.

At this point now, the able bodied leftist thugs and goons are trying to steal what they can't earn. Our government is charged with the RESPONSIBILITY TO STOP THE FOOLISHNESS.

The same morons, like Mayor Wheeler, who support the educational system that has taught the thugs to terrorize to gain what others have earned enable the insurrection by their inaction.

Our media is spreading propaganda. The thugs and goons are presented as heroes. The cops are presented as rampaging murderers. Much of the news is completely obscured to maintain the narrative of propaganda.

This crap has to end and end soon. There is a huge and violent confrontation being prepared and it is not going to be pretty.

 

[Paradoxical]

Tribalism does seem to be a "thing".

The Christians you have been hanging around seem to be less faithful than they are religious. EVERYONE Christ met was not a Christian and yet he welcomed them. The folks you cite who call themselves Christians really are not.

I am distressed by the current violence and riots as they proclaim that the problems of individuals are not related to the actions of those same individuals.

I have found in my life that anything that I do or do not do in my today affects my tomorrow. Blaming others is a waste of time. For one thing, they don't care and, because of that, it doesn't help.

People who view themselves as having failed probably want their participation trophy. So what?

They know in their hearts that their life is a wreck, they've been taught they are not the responsible for outcomes and now seek to be bailed out. Again. They've cried and been bailed out their entire life.

Society exists to help the weak survive in a harsh world, not to give them a free ride.

At this point now, the able bodied leftist thugs and goons are trying to steal what they can't earn. Our government is charged with the RESPONSIBILITY TO STOP THE FOOLISHNESS.

The same morons, like Mayor Wheeler, who support the educational system that has taught the thugs to terrorize to gain what others have earned enable the insurrection by their inaction.

Our media is spreading propaganda. The thugs and goons are presented as heroes. The cops are presented as rampaging murderers. Much of the news is completely obscured to maintain the narrative of propaganda.

This crap has to end and end soon. There is a huge and violent confrontation being prepared and it is not going to be pretty.

Excellent post and I agree with almost everything you said. Where I differ is that I have debated Christians for decades before stopping and sticking almost specifically to politics. There was a saying that they would use which was that "He is't a troo Christian" when a person who claimed to be or identified with Christianity committed some heinous act. I thought about that statement log and hard and realized that every group uses that "out card" when they have to. For instance, Code1211, when the 'protesters' are tossing firebombs and punching out innocent people and this is televised, and they proudly proclaim they are BLM or Antifa, doesn't everyone claim "He is not a troo BLM member"?

I really haven't seen atheists or normal people doing such despicable acts in the name of a non belief in 'God' or a non belief that cops routinely kill black people. The group is what gives them that authority when the group looks the other way at acts of violence as they are doing here with the riots and as they have done in many situations of Christianity and Catholicism (which IS Christianity in spite of claims otherwise). I don't see regular normal people doing those things but I DO see those in power using their members for their own needs which is money and power. They first need to make people BELIEVE and the Goebbelsian press is the way they do it. The Democrats now have found that they can control the populace by using those on CNN, MSNBS, etc. to tell the people what to believe and what not to believe. I see the current mania as the SAME as Christianity and how it was promoted and became so large.....indoctrination of the masses into a belief system.

We saw reporters for the left wing Goebbelsian news saying they were peaceful protests as buildings were burning in the background the same as we see Christians defending their members as not being troo Christians. Don't get me wrong. I think that most Christians are very nice, kind and moral people. I used to be one. My family members still are. The danger always come in being indoctrinated into a belief system that teaches those with differing beliefs are to be scorned and ridiculed and hated and truth be told, that is what Christians teach with their derision of gays and atheists and that they will surely go to hell for heir non belief.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I assume you think your posts are not vacuous.

Excellent post and I agree with almost everything you said. Where I differ is that I have debated Christians for decades before stopping and sticking almost specifically to politics. There was a saying that they would use which was that "He is't a troo Christian" when a person who claimed to be or identified with Christianity committed some heinous act. I thought about that statement log and hard and realized that every group uses that "out card" when they have to. For instance, Code1211, when the 'protesters' are tossing firebombs and punching out innocent people and this is televised, and they proudly proclaim they are BLM or Antifa, doesn't everyone claim "He is not a troo BLM member"?

I really haven't seen atheists or normal people doing such despicable acts in the name of a non belief in 'God' or a non belief that cops routinely kill black people. The group is what gives them that authority when the group looks the other way at acts of violence as they are doing here with the riots and as they have done in many situations of Christianity and Catholicism (which IS Christianity in spite of claims otherwise). I don't see regular normal people doing those things but I DO see those in power using their members for their own needs which is money and power. They first need to make people BELIEVE and the Goebbelsian press is the way they do it. The Democrats now have found that they can control the populace by using those on CNN, MSNBS, etc. to tell the people what to believe and what not to believe. I see the current mania as the SAME as Christianity and how it was promoted and became so large.....indoctrination of the masses into a belief system.

We saw reporters for the left wing Goebbelsian news saying they were peaceful protests as buildings were burning in the background the same as we see Christians defending their members as not being troo Christians. Don't get me wrong. I think that most Christians are very nice, kind and moral people. I used to be one. My family members still are. The danger always come in being indoctrinated into a belief system that teaches those with differing beliefs are to be scorned and ridiculed and hated and truth be told, that is what Christians teach with their derision of gays and atheists and that they will surely go to hell for heir non belief.

This is American “Christianity”

 

[Aunt Antifa]

This crap has to end and end soon. There is a huge and violent confrontation being prepared and it is not going to be pretty.

Blessed are the peacemakers...

 

[Paradoxical]

This is American “Christianity”

View attachment 67295365

Another reason I left the cult.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Then you have QAnon....
QAnon has morphed into a rapidly expanding tribe that projects US President Donald Trump as a saviour.

You understand this sounds crazy, but you don’t care. You know that a small group of manipulators, operating in the shadows, pull the planet’s strings. You know that they are powerful enough to abuse children without fear of retribution.QAnon is helping Trump (and it'''s only just getting started)

You know that the mainstream media are their handmaidens, in partnership with Hillary Clinton and the secretive denizens of the deep state. You know that only Donald Trump stands between you and a damned and ravaged world.

You see plague and pestilence sweeping the planet, and understand that they are part of the plan. You know that a clash between good and evil cannot be avoided, and you yearn for the Great Awakening that is coming.

And so you must be on guard at all times. You must shield your ears from the scorn of the ignorant. You must find those who are like you. And you must be prepared to fight.

You know all this because you believe in Q.


These beaches are terrifying because they are prepared to fight for an imaginary cause with Trump as their savior. Trump has all but endorsed their behavior, “I heard that these are people that love our country.”

A few from this group have already loaded up with guns and commited crime in the name of the Q.

I don't think you can compare this group with liberals, the left leaning, or progressives but even if you do, the right has it's own agressive, conspiracy groups and they're growing and promising all hell will break loose if Trump loses.

 

[code1211]

Excellent post and I agree with almost everything you said. Where I differ is that I have debated Christians for decades before stopping and sticking almost specifically to politics. There was a saying that they would use which was that "He is't a troo Christian" when a person who claimed to be or identified with Christianity committed some heinous act. I thought about that statement log and hard and realized that every group uses that "out card" when they have to. For instance, Code1211, when the 'protesters' are tossing firebombs and punching out innocent people and this is televised, and they proudly proclaim they are BLM or Antifa, doesn't everyone claim "He is not a troo BLM member"?

I really haven't seen atheists or normal people doing such despicable acts in the name of a non belief in 'God' or a non belief that cops routinely kill black people. The group is what gives them that authority when the group looks the other way at acts of violence as they are doing here with the riots and as they have done in many situations of Christianity and Catholicism (which IS Christianity in spite of claims otherwise). I don't see regular normal people doing those things but I DO see those in power using their members for their own needs which is money and power. They first need to make people BELIEVE and the Goebbelsian press is the way they do it. The Democrats now have found that they can control the populace by using those on CNN, MSNBS, etc. to tell the people what to believe and what not to believe. I see the current mania as the SAME as Christianity and how it was promoted and became so large.....indoctrination of the masses into a belief system.

We saw reporters for the left wing Goebbelsian news saying they were peaceful protests as buildings were burning in the background the same as we see Christians defending their members as not being troo Christians. Don't get me wrong. I think that most Christians are very nice, kind and moral people. I used to be one. My family members still are. The danger always come in being indoctrinated into a belief system that teaches those with differing beliefs are to be scorned and ridiculed and hated and truth be told, that is what Christians teach with their derision of gays and atheists and that they will surely go to hell for heir non belief.

In your own post, you find your answers.

The Crusades were ostensibly led and organized by Christians using "Keepers of the Faith". Of course, that's crap. They saw gold in the hands of the Muslims and taking it was the goal of the "Christians".

Keeping the Faith was a propaganda slogan.

Jesus was pretty clear about wealth and entering the Kingdom of Heaven. That, too, has been used as a device to get the folks who had/have the wealth to give it to the the Church.

I have found in my life that having faith and having a religion are two entirely different things. I'm not sure what a true Christian is, but I am comfortable in my faith.

Anyway, whether it's a mob or a congregation or a military regiment, any group can be organized to the needed degree and directed by an effective leader.

If you look at Christianity through history and even today across the world, you see a variety of interpretations. My interpretation is if Christ didn't say it out loud, it's BS.

I also think He must have been a pretty charismatic leader of men with a quick wit, a great sense of humor and a knack to be able to "read the room". Also, very likely, humble, engaging and empathetic.

Correcting imperfections and curing maladies and raising the dead and rising from the dead were all pretty notable events. His example of living, though, is what our daily actions with others could reflect if we take the time and effort to do so.

I could be wrong.

 

[code1211]

This is American “Christianity”

View attachment 67295365

Another vacuous post.

 

[code1211]

Blessed are the peacemakers...

I'm looking forward to my inheritance.

 

[Paradoxical]

In your own post, you find your answers.

The Crusades were ostensibly led and organized by Christians using "Keepers of the Faith". Of course, that's crap. They saw gold in the hands of the Muslims and taking it was the goal of the "Christians".

Keeping the Faith was a propaganda slogan.

Jesus was pretty clear about wealth and entering the Kingdom of Heaven. That, too, has been used as a device to get the folks who had/have the wealth to give it to the the Church.

I have found in my life that having faith and having a religion are two entirely different things. I'm not sure what a true Christian is, but I am comfortable in my faith.

Anyway, whether it's a mob or a congregation or a military regiment, any group can be organized to the needed degree and directed by an effective leader.

If you look at Christianity through history and even today across the world, you see a variety of interpretations. My interpretation is if Christ didn't say it out loud, it's BS.

I also think He must have been a pretty charismatic leader of men with a quick wit, a great sense of humor and a knack to be able to "read the room". Also, very likely, humble, engaging and empathetic.

Correcting imperfections and curing maladies and raising the dead and rising from the dead were all pretty notable events. His example of living, though, is what our daily actions with others could reflect if we take the time and effort to do so.

I could be wrong.

Jesus was killed because he was a threat to the leaders. Trump is being virtually killed for the same reasons. All the evil doers need is makeup phony claims. We are seeing this today with the FNC using the press,

 

[Bodi]

When I was a grade school age student, California was generally regarded as a utopia that everyone should aspire to.

I moved there in 1986 and found it to be an irrigated desert with WAAAY too many people. Moved out again after four months.

Now, we see
-wild fires raging through almost the whole year,
-brown outs because the power grid is apparently failing and
-government officials refusing to allow minimum freedoms to their subjects while flaunting their own privilege.

This is not even calling out the mountains of used hypodermic needles, the homeless crises, the ridiculously high taxes and the aging infrastructure.

The last time I flew into LAX, it was like a trip in the Way Back Machine to the 80's.

How is this socialist experiment working for you all?

It is pretty crappy overall. California is a **** heap compared to what it used to be...


And the wildfires are due primarily to forest mismanagement...

 

[Bodi]

This is nonsense. This is happening because of climate change, period.

A

No. It isn't. It is mostly mismanagement of forests and housing flooding out into the boonies...