Hey, Californians: What the heck is going on out there? (1 Viewer)

[code1211]

In fairness, the wildfires primarily result from a combination of climate change and moronic federal forestry policies. But yeah, as for the rest of the *&^^show, it's what happens when one party rules and has no checks on it -- it just goes off a cliff. Our nation really does better when multiple philosophies vie for supremacy and compromise in the middle, not when we run roughsod over one view and give the other its entire wishlist.

It seems like horrible mismanagement of both the forests and the water are to blame.

Regarding single party dominance, is there a similar combination of disastrous outcomes in places that have had Republican leadership for decades?

Both of my brothers live there and seem to love it.

 

[code1211]

This is nonsense. This is happening because of climate change, period.

A

The power grid failing is due to climate change? Hypodermic needles pile up due to climate change?

The mythology of "Climate Change" holds that evil men, especially those with white skin, are distorting the normal operation of the ecosphere by spewing CO2 into the atmosphere.

The Mythology goes on to declare that the rising CO2 caused by Man is driving the rise in the global temperature.

However, during the Pandemic when the Anthropogenic spew of CO2 was VASTLY reduced, the Global Atmospheric CO2 rose at the average rate of the last ten years.

That is the science that Anthropogenic Climate Change denies to support itself.

IN THE REAL WORLD, when the globe warms, CO2 increases because the areas gripped in Permafrost thaws and the CO2 is outgassed to the air from the formerly frozen soil.

It happened this was before our species and cultures evolved and will happen this way long after we are dean and gone.

Atmospheric CO2 levels rise sharply despite Covid-19 lockdowns | Environment | The Guardian

 

[code1211]

I have lived all of my 83 years in California (in Los Angeles since the 1940s).

Yes, California has changed dramatically.

Because of massive immigration (both legal and undocumented) since the 1970s, it is now a solidly blue state.

It has often been said that as California goes, so goes the nation.

That is an accurate statement, I believe.

California today is a harbinger of what the entire nation will look like in a few more decades.

Sounds like a bleak prophesy.

 

[code1211]

Scientists have been making that statement for a while now. It’s not even a little controversial.

SCIENTISTS are saying what?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

The power grid failing is due to climate change? Hypodermic needles pile up due to climate change?

The mythology of "Climate Change" holds that evil men, especially those with white skin, are distorting the normal operation of the ecosphere by spewing CO2 into the atmosphere.

The Mythology goes on to declare that the rising CO2 caused by Man is driving the rise in the global temperature.

However, during the Pandemic when the Anthropogenic spew of CO2 was VASTLY reduced, the Global Atmospheric CO2 rose at the average rate of the last ten years.

That is the science that Anthropogenic Climate Change denies to support itself.

IN THE REAL WORLD, when the globe warms, CO2 increases because the areas gripped in Permafrost thaws and the CO2 is outgassed to the air from the formerly frozen soil.

It happened this was before our species and cultures evolved and will happen this way long after we are dean and gone.

Atmospheric CO2 levels rise sharply despite Covid-19 lockdowns | Environment | The Guardian

You're calling climate change science a myth, and your proof is that during a few months when cities in one country simply didn't drive, this had no effect on anything and that's your big aha moment.

Im not going to take you seriously no matter how much you plead.

 

[code1211]

What happened is what was intended and predicted. The Democrats and Republicans, including Bush and McCain, turned their heads as millions of illegal aliens poured across the border. Those illegal aliens had many children (more than whites do, by far) and those children now vote and vote Democrat because they are used to the welfare state.

Jesus Christ wouldn't win office in California if he ran as a Republican. We now have sissies and Marxists like Garcetti and Newsom running the state and state employees being paid 100K plus a year and retiring at 55 and as a result cannot afford basic services. The Atlases are fleeing, leaving even less money The druggies and derelicts have taken over many cities, even outlying areas and ares sleeping on the grounds of shopping centers and no one can do a thing about it. To "reduce" crime, they passed a law that theft of under $950.00 is a misdemeanor,which means the police won't go out and the criminals all know this.

THAT is what happened to this once great state. What happened is Democrats took over.

Sounds like a row of dominoes.

Where personal responsibility is removed, group advancement often disappears.

Remove enough incentive to act and action ceases.

 

[Paradoxical]

Hi Robert,

Politics do not shape the weather. Lack of politics shape the weather.

Climate change is a fact, weather we like it or not. Also n California. At least the Democrats try to do something about it. The republicans stick there hands in the sand as always, because oh oh oh what if my shares go down 2%. All short term politics, none constructive idealism and The Trumpet has never done anything to help America. Never.

Joey

May I see your evidence that the area known as California was never as hot as it is now over the past millions of years?

 

[TheParser]

Sounds like a bleak prophesy.

Oh, yes!

I personally doubt the United States of America will have its current configuration by the end of this century.



Have a nice new work week!

 

[code1211]

Hi Robert,

Politics do not shape the weather. Lack of politics shape the weather.

Climate change is a fact, weather we like it or not. Also n California. At least the Democrats try to do something about it. The republicans stick there hands in the sand as always, because oh oh oh what if my shares go down 2%. All short term politics, none constructive idealism and The Trumpet has never done anything to help America. Never.

Joey

Please connect for me the dots on the the Man-Made causation of Climate Change.

We are about as warm globally as we were 5000 years ago.

We are about a degree cooler than we were 8000 years ago.

For the last 10,000 or so years, our climate has changed within about a 2 degree range. Our treasured "Instrument Record started at the coldest point of the Halocene. NO warming would have been the anomaly.

In St. Augustine Florida, the Spaniards built the Castillo in about 1600. It was so close to the cost line that they were able to install a gate system to flood a moat if needed for defense.

The Castillo, the moat, the coast and the ocean are still right there where they left them. Sea level rise? Unnoticeable.

Climate IS changing, has ALWAYS BEEN changing and will, very likely, continue to change.

Castillo de San Marcos - Wikipedia

 

[Aunt Antifa]

May I see your evidence that the area known as California was never as hot as it is now over the past millions of years?

Do you believe dinosaurs existed? I’ve had so many conservatives ask me for this proof, and then I find out they don’t believe that dinosaurs existed.

 

[skeptic llc]

Do you believe dinosaurs existed? I’ve had so many conservatives ask me for this proof, and then I find out they don’t believe that dinosaurs existed.

Don't bother, there is no proof they will accept on climate change, whether they believe in dinosaurs or not.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Don't bother, there is no proof they will accept on climate change, whether they believe in dinosaurs or not.

I’m starting to get that.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

May I see your evidence that the area known as California was never as hot as it is now over the past million years?

I don't think I said that it is now hotter in California than ever before. Because it has been hotter in California before. It has also been colder in California before. There was a time (several times actually) where the entire planet was covered in a thick layer of ice. (Yes, the ENTIRE Planet). And when we first had water on earth, it was only in the form of extremely hot water at a temperature of 230 degrees C. Yes and it was still water and not steam. Because the atmosphere in those days was CO2, very dense and very heavy resulting in a very high pressure that allowed water to stay liquid at those temperatures. You see the problem here with CO2? If not, look at Venus. Not a very hospitable place for most life forms.

No, but I will guide you a little so you can read for your self. This way you learn much more.

- Animal remains such as fossils are an indicator. Crocodiles do not live in the arctic as you know. Frogs can be very very sensitive to temperature changes as well. And we know the age of fossils by means of carbon dating and similar technologies.
- Fossils of Plants and tree are an indicator of changes. There rings, there composition. Their kind (as in Oak, Teak or x-mas trees. lol.)
- Trapped bubbles of gas in solidified magma from volcanos are a very very good indicator, because composition of the trapped air has never changed in all those years.
- Ice cores found elsewhere tell us about the composition of the air all over the word and this too is a very good guide for temperatures on earth.

The problem is not the actual temperature in California, or anywhere else for that matter. The problem is the rate at which the temperatures are changing. And this rate of change is unprecedented, and everything we know and see indicates that it is cause by humans. And the evidence for this is found in the ice cores in Greenland and Antarctica. There have been major and extreme changes in the past. Like the Tambora Volcano in 1815. This caused a temp change of 0.5 Degrees C in Europe the year after and this in turn caused some 90,000 deaths. The Toba Volcano is an even more extreme example. For a 3 year period the temperature dropped 15 degrees C and than took many years to slowly come back to normal. And this they measure by looking at the tree lines. The tree lines in the mountains came down by 3,000 meters. And we know that the temperature changes 5 degrees c per 1,000 meters, hence the 15 degrees. This obviously means that in California too the temperature dropped by 15C.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that many people do not WANT to believe it and will always disregard the evidence. I do not know you and I do not know if you fall into this category, but please take the effort to read up. It is actually very very interesting. Not only to see what happened in the past, but also how they get al that information.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Please connect for me the dots on the the Man-Made causation of Climate Change.

We are about as warm globally as we were 5000 years ago.

We are about a degree cooler than we were 8000 years ago.

For the last 10,000 or so years, our climate has changed within about a 2 degree range. Our treasured "Instrument Record started at the coldest point of the Halocene. NO warming would have been the anomaly.

In St. Augustine Florida, the Spaniards built the Castillo in about 1600. It was so close to the cost line that they were able to install a gate system to flood a moat if needed for defense.

The Castillo, the moat, the coast and the ocean are still right there where they left them. Sea level rise? Unnoticeable.

Climate IS changing, has ALWAYS BEEN changing and will, very likely, continue to change.

Castillo de San Marcos - Wikipedia

Hi Code,

Please refer to my post above. Sorry I took one post at a time.

But I agree with you that the climate is changing and has always been changing. But it is not the change that is worrisome, it is the rate of change which is worrisome.

Joey

 

[Paradoxical]

I don't think I said that it is now hotter in California than ever before. Because it has been hotter in California before. It has also been colder in California before. There was a time (several times actually) where the entire planet was covered in a thick layer of ice. (Yes, the ENTIRE Planet). And when we first had water on earth, it was only in the form of extremely hot water at a temperature of 230 degrees C. Yes and it was still water and not steam. Because the atmosphere in those days was CO2, very dense and very heavy resulting in a very high pressure that allowed water to stay liquid at those temperatures.

No, but I will guide you a little so you can read for your self. This way you learn much more.

- Animal remains such as fossils are an indicator. Crocodile do not live in the arctic as you know. Frogs can be very very sensitive to temperature changes as well. And we know the age of fossil by means of carbon dating and similar technologies.
- Fossils of Plants and tree are an indicator of changes.
- Trapped bubbles of gas in solidified magma from volcanos are a very very good indicator, because composition of the trapped air has never changed in all those years.
- Ice cores found elsewhere tell us about the composition of the air all over the word and this too is a very good guide for temperatures on earth.

The problem is not the actual temperature in California, or anywhere else for that matter. The problem is the rate at which the temperatures are changing. And this rate of change is unprecedented, and everything we know and see indicates that it is cause by humans. And the evidence for this is found in the ice cores in Greenland and Antarctica. There have been major and extreme changes in the past. Like the Tambora Volcano in 1815. This caused a temp change of 0.5 Degrees C in Europe the year after and this in turn caused some 90,000 deaths. The Toba Volcano is an even more extreme example. For a 3 year period the temperature dropped 15 degrees C and than took many years to slowly come back to normal. And this they measure by looking at the tree lines. The tree lines in the mountains came down by 3,000 meters. And we know that the temperature changes 5 degrees c per 1,000 meters, hence the 15 degrees. This obviously means that in California too the temperature dropped by 15C.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that many people do not WANT to believe it and will always disregard the evidence. I do not know you and I do not know if you fall into this category, but please take the effort to read up. It is actually very very interesting. Not only to see what happened in the past, but also how they get al that information.

Joey

The earth has been hotter before and survived. MUCH hotter. Who is to say what the optimal temperature is just because humans want it to always be 80? Some areas that are cold now will be warmer, creating areas that are comfortable. This bit about the earth burning up is nonsense. It is scientific speculation, just like masks and social distancing.

 

[skeptic llc]

I’m starting to get that.

It's following the same playbook the cigarette industry developed decades ago. Deny everything. Fund academic studies that will confuse the issue. And then encourage citizens to practice DIY "science" based on anecdotes -- "Hey, Old Buck smoked for 50 years and never got cancer, so smoking can't cause cancer." Eventually, one generation of denialist morons dies out, and the next generation of denialist morons denies something different. But don't bother engaging with whatever reality they are currently denying, it's pointless.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

The earth has been hotter before and survived. MUCH hotter. Who is to say what the optimal temperature is just because humans want it to always be 80? Some areas that are cold now will be warmer, creating areas that are comfortable. This bit about the earth burning up is nonsense. It is scientific speculation, just like masks and social distancing.

So you ask me for an explanation, knowing full well that you gonna deny it anyway, wasting my time in the process. And considering the time passed since my post, you have obviously not read about anything I have suggested. And, as expected you throw everything I said out of the window. Sounds much like an uninformed opinion an empty box. Sorry, but that is not very nice of you.

Joey

 

[Paradoxical]

So you ask me for an explanation, knowing full well that you gonna deny it anyway, wasting my time in the process. And considering the time passed since my post, you have obviously not read about anything I have suggested. And, as expected you throw everything I said out of the window. Sounds much like an uninformed opinion an empty box. Sorry, but that is not very nice of you.

Joey

Nope. It's just that the Goebbelsian news have succeeded in indoctrination. The earth HAS been warmer in the past and you know this. Humans just want THEIR little world to always be the best temperature that they like. Earth doesn't care about your wants and needs.Neither does a virus.

We humans think that some god or government should control everything and we don't like knowing that stuff happens. We self flagellate like an evangelical and say we are sinners and must repent. It's all in thinking we have control over nature. It's like tossing virgins into a volcano thinking that will make it stop. Same thing with the virus. We wear masks while people are falling over dead wearing masks because we are told we can stop it that way and don't pay any attention to all those dead people wearing masks and certainly ignore all those people in Sweden, South Dakota and Manaus who are alive and never wore masks.

We MUST believe the science gods or the end is nigh. REPENT ye sinners! Ye are the cause of earths wrath!!

 

[code1211]

The climate has been "changing" since long before Jesus walked the earth. Nothing to do with anything. Like the virus, we humans think we cam change mother nature.

So true!

Some historians point at the migration from the savanna, as it became the Sahara Desert, as the ignition point of the explosion of the Egyptian Civilization that followed.

The key point connected to Climate in this is the desertification causing the migration.

The only consistency in our local weather or global climate is that it changes in both the short and long terms.

As Crocodile Dundee opined, arguing about changing the climate is like a couple fleas arguing about where the dog ought to go next.

 

[code1211]

Yes, you're spot on.

But never in recorded weather history has the climate changed at the same pace is at his now. By a very very large margin....

And yes we can not change mother nature, but we surely can give it a push in the right direction and slow down the process. And also with the Virus. Sure we can not change the coming of a new virus (well other than developing one our selves...), but we surely can do much to control the impact of that. Well, some can, but The Trumpet obviously can not.

But it is not impossible as I have shown earlier in a different thread
- .

Joey

Regarding recorded history, we really don't know, do we.

The instrument record starts in about 1880. that is just about exactly at the coldest point in our current interglacial. The current warming is pretty much a mirror image of the cooling that led to the coldest point.

Using the proxy measurements, any rapid temperature changes are smoothed due simply to the methodology.

The Younger Dryas temperature changes showed vast climate swings down then up again that caused global level extinction events.

Our current climate is within the range of variation across the last 10,000 years.

Our current climate is not unprecedented, not extreme and not deadly.

 

[code1211]

So dry the bark beetle took hold when they never had before. They aren't native, have no natural predators out west. Creeks that used to run all year don't anymore.

I thought y'all gave up on denying it was happening and fell back on it isn't caused by humans?

And what does population have to do with wildfires in federal forests?

If trump had got his teams of rakers on the job in his forests maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.

Are rakers allowed to tamper with the virgin forests?

Maybe the Liberal Elites in Hollywood should have been put on the job to eliminate the "Virgin" part of the Forests...

 

[Aunt Antifa]

.

As Crocodile Dundee opined, arguing about changing the climate is like a couple fleas arguing about where the dog ought to go next.

*It’s “Noted Climatologist Crocodile Dundee”

 

[Paradoxical]

So true!

Some historians point at the migration from the savanna, as it became the Sahara Desert, as the ignition point of the explosion of the Egyptian Civilization that followed.

The key point connected to Climate in this is the desertification causing the migration.

The only consistency in our local weather or global climate is that it changes in both the short and long terms.

As Crocodile Dundee opined, arguing about changing the climate is like a couple fleas arguing about where the dog ought to go next.

All this is so government people will have jobs and those in power can reap millions off technology through the donations that those companies give to the politicians. See Al Gore.

 

[code1211]

Hey Luther,

You are right here. I should have used the word climate. I am sure you feel a lot better now that you could use that as an argument that I was wrong. semantics... :lamo



Yes. And the Sahara has been there for a long time as well. And you know something else, the oceans have been wet for millions of years and a coffee machine makes coffee! So I agree with you. Climate change is a stupid idea. And all the scientists have no idea what they are talking about. Only politicians with the IQ of The Trumpet (This man is so incredibly intelligent!) and his followers actually know what they are talking about.

:2wave:

Joey

The Sahara desertified during the Halocene.

The Oceans impact climate more by way of currents than any other way. When continental drift changed the ocean currents within the last million years, climate changed dramatically.

Politicians warping the view of science to fit their central control agenda is what is a stupid idea.

 

[Paradoxical]

*It’s “Noted Climatologist Crocodile Dundee”

Just a VERY good analogy of humans thinking they control nature is like a dog thinking he can get rid of fleas by scratching them off. Strangely, they always come back. Go figure, eh?