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Heroes of the Second Amendment

OpportunityCost said:
You need to get that message, not me.

I already commented on some solutions. Namely, better mental health in the US and mental health evaluations, stricter sentencing for gun crime, and better enforcement of existing gun control laws.
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Those on the right are now throwing out MENTAL HEALTH as a pure and simple diversion overtime we have another gun massacre. In reality, the political forces for the right have not done anything to change the mental health problems in the nation. In fact, Trump did just the opposite when he ordered the revocation of an Obama order making it more difficult for people with mental problem to get guns.

And I join you in demanding stricter sentencing for gun crime and better enforcement of current gun control laws. The situation in Texas emphasizes and underlines this as that man should never have been able to buy a firearm in the first place if only the laws had been followed.
 
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Rucker61 said:
Cruikshank effectively decoupled "right to keep and bear" from the Second Amendment.
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I will read up on that case later.

Scalia does spend time in Heller on that aspect. I guess I need to re-read some of Heller as I can't remember if he mentions Cruikshank.

Thanks. That's something I will either learn or remember that I forgot today.;)
 
haymarket said:
Those on the right are now throwing out MENTAL HEALTH as a pure and simple diversion overtime we have another gun massacre. In reality, the political forces for the right have not done anything to change the mental health problems in the nation. In fact, Trump did just the opposite when he ordered the revocation of an Obama order making it more difficult for people with mental problem to get guns.

And I join you in demanding stricter sentencing for gun crime and better enforcement of current gun control laws. The situation in Texas emphasizes and underlines this as that man should never have been able to buy a firearm in the first place if only the laws had been followed.
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Its not a diversion. Its a simple truth---you have to be mentally imbalanced to want to kill bunches of people for any reason. We need to find a way to establish people on the edge sooner than we are.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Its not a diversion. Its a simple truth---you have to be mentally imbalanced to want to kill bunches of people for any reason. We need to find a way to establish people on the edge sooner than we are.
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What would you propose?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Better follow up and surveillance on people that display violent tendencies. Would have worked with the church shooter at the very least.
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Can you provide a link to any political figure who agrees with you that this is a mental health problem and their bill which would do what you suggest?
 
haymarket said:
Can you provide a link to any political figure who agrees with you that this is a mental health problem and their bill which would do what you suggest?
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Out of thin air you think someone needs supporting evidence for what in their opinion would be effective solutions when you are proposing a giant wall around the NRA. C'mon, that's a gigantic pile of hypocrisy there.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Out of thin air you think someone needs supporting evidence for what in their opinion would be effective solutions when you are proposing a giant wall around the NRA. C'mon, that's a gigantic pile of hypocrisy there.
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You don't get it. My proposal seeks to honor the dead by having the NRA publicly acknowledge the price that innocent people pay so they can pursue their extremist vision of a hijacked constitutional amendment. I want the NRA to pay for it. I want it on their land. I want the NRA to acknowledge their debt. As such it requires no governmental action. And if that requires public mocking and ridicule and figure pointing at the NRA until they recognize that high price others are paying - that is fine as the main tactic. That is my plan. Those are my methods.

Right wingers proclaiming that this is a mental health problem have yet to show that they have any plan to remedy this as it would require massive governmental action. And they have made no such proposal.

So I am right in stating that this right wing "its a mental health problem" excuse that we hear over and over again when the bodies are carted away in the bags is just hot air and there is no real proposal to actually do anything.
 
haymarket said:
You don't get it. My proposal seeks to honor the dead by having the NRA publicly acknowledge the price that innocent people pay so they can pursue their extremist vision of a hijacked constitutional amendment. I want the NRA to pay for it. I want it on their land. I want the NRA to acknowledge their debt. As such it requires no governmental action. And if that requires public mocking and ridicule and figure pointing at the NRA until they recognize that high price others are paying - that is fine as the main tactic. That is my plan. Those are my methods.

Right wingers proclaiming that this is a mental health problem have yet to show that they have any plan to remedy this as it would require massive governmental action. And they have made no such proposal.

So I am right in stating that this right wing "its a mental health problem" excuse that we hear over and over again when the bodies are carted away in the bags is just hot air and there is no real proposal to actually do anything.
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And your solution solves nothing. Its virtue signaling nonsense.

Mental health is not an exact science, we will probably never have something that is full proof. But, we surely can do better than the guilt shaming nuttery you are proposing.
 
OpportunityCost said:
And your solution solves nothing. Its virtue signaling nonsense.

Mental health is not an exact science, we will probably never have something that is full proof. But, we surely can do better than the guilt shaming nuttery you are proposing.
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So again, you have nothing to show this proposal regarding mental health is anything more than just words to distract away from guns.
 
haymarket said:
So again, you have nothing to show this proposal regarding mental health is anything more than just words to distract away from guns.
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Look. You have voiced your opinion and no one, I mean ****ing no one is supporting that pile of **** you call a solution.

I am voicing my opinion. As I am allowed to do. So again, I don't need any proof anyone supports it or has a proposal for it, its my god damned opinion.

If you don't need any proof or support for your nonsense, I damned sure don't need any for mine. Quit being a blatant hypocrite.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Look. You have voiced your opinion and no one, I mean ****ing no one is supporting that pile of **** you call a solution.

I am voicing my opinion. As I am allowed to do. So again, I don't need any proof anyone supports it or has a proposal for it, its my god damned opinion.

If you don't need any proof or support for your nonsense, I damned sure don't need any for mine. Quit being a blatant hypocrite.
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Except YOUR idea requires lots of government action and programs and spending. Mine only requires the NRA shaming.

You confuse me with someone who cares about what a few right wingers here think of my suggestion.

And your response is welcomed by me ... I actually love it ... since ir proves my point that wine right-wingers use the mental health excuse to distract us from guns, its all hollowed meaningless crap that they really have no plan for.
 
haymarket said:
Except YOUR idea requires lots of government action and programs and spending. Mine only requires the NRA shaming.

You confuse me with someone who cares about what a few right wingers here think of my suggestion.

And your response is welcomed by me ... I actually love it ... since ir proves my point that wine right-wingers use the mental health excuse to distract us from guns, its all hollowed meaningless crap that they really have no plan for.
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Oh, so you want to discuss peoples' lives in terms of costs? Careful there.

Mental evaluations of violent criminals is already done. Widening the scope of when it is done wont require gigantic cost, especially if it is used as part of their own costs for their crime.

Lastly, since you don't have a telepathy helmet, you have no idea how conservatives feel about mental health, you are assuming. And a rather nasty assumption it is, too.
 
haymarket said:
What I said was they paid the ultimate price so that others can exercise what they believe to be a right.

The ones who do not honor the Second are the NRA and its extremist followers who have perverted it and twisted it into something other than as it is written.
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Bull****.This is just an attempt to use victims for your anti-2nd agenda.Its a ********er thing to do.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Madison said lots of stuff regarding the 2nd Amendment. And about the Constitution in general. Here's some quotes attributed to him which clearly shows his thoughts...

James Madison Quotes About Second Amendment
James Madison Quotes
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That site is new to me, but I plan to check it out when I have time. The following is not a ding directed at you or that site.

The problem I've had with 'founders quotes' is that there are many, many out of context or even blatantly fake quotes swimming around the internet. I try to stick with things from the actual founding documents or at least places that provide a source I can crosscheck.
 
This seems a good time to bring back this discussion after the St. Valentines Massacre in Florida.

Seventeen more names to add to the wall honoring the innocents who were killed.

So this is the 18th school shooting in America in just a month and a half - I wonder what the record is and how that compares to other first world nations?
 
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haymarket said:
This seems a good time to bring back this discussion after the St. Valentines Massacre in Florida.

Seventeen more names to add to the wall honoring the innocents who were killed.

So this is the 18th school shooting in America in just a month and a half - I wonder what the record is and how that compares to other first world nations?
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I think you should steal a shopping cart from your favorite grocery store and go door to door in your neighborhood asking your neighbors to give up their guns. If you get even one donation you will have accomplished far more to ale your neighborhood safe than evermy word that you posted here will do. In ract, pick the poorest neighborhood in your city. It's far more likely to have illegal guns.
 
Rucker61 said:
I think you should steal a shopping cart from your favorite grocery store and go door to door in your neighborhood asking your neighbors to give up their guns. If you get even one donation you will have accomplished far more to ale your neighborhood safe than evermy word that you posted here will do. In ract, pick the poorest neighborhood in your city. It's far more likely to have illegal guns.
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The problem is a national one and one which has taken many decades to get to this point. Solutions must also be national and will take decades to take effect.
 
haymarket said:
The problem is a national one and one which has taken many decades to get to this point. Solutions must also be national and will take decades to take effect.
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Think globally, act locally. If you solution involves a ban, someone will have to go collect guns from those not willing to accept that ban. If it's a national law, it won't be the local LEOs doing the collecting.
 
Rucker61 said:
Think globally, act locally. If you solution involves a ban, someone will have to go collect guns from those not willing to accept that ban. If it's a national law, it won't be the local LEOs doing the collecting.
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What ban are you talking about?
 
Rucker61 said:
"If" your solution involves a ban. You haven't actually proposed anything here have you?
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Again - what ban are you talking about?

What I have proposed is a monument to the innocent dead who died from gun violence.
 
Rucker61 said:
Any potential ban you might suggest or support. That's what the word "if" means.
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Did you even read the OP? What I have proposed is a monument to the innocent dead who died from gun violence.
 
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