Here's how badly Democrats have to screw up to lose the election[W:558]

[Glen Contrarian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession



Boom.



My point is that we were in the position of either aiding "the devil that we knew" or allowing these nations to fall into the hands of the communists. It is no secret who people like Daniel Ortega were getting their direction and support from. We had an official policy of stopping the spread of communism. Adhering to that policy got very messy and ugly at times.

From the same reference:

In July 1982, Congress enacted the Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 (Garn–St. Germain), which further deregulated banks as well as deregulating savings and loans. The Garn–St. Germain act authorized banks to begin offering money market accounts in an attempt to encourage deposit in-flows, removed additional statutory restrictions in real estate lending, and relaxed loans-to-one-borrower limits. The legislation encouraged a rapid expansion in real estate lending at a time when the real estate market was collapsing, increased the unhealthy competition between banks and savings and loans, and encouraged overbuilding of branches.[16]

The recession affected the banking industry long after the economic downturn technically ended in November 1982. In 1983, another 50 banks failed. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) listed another 540 banks as "problem banks" on the verge of failure.[18]

and

Congressional deregulation exacerbated the S&L crisis. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 led to a boom in commercial real estate. The passage of DIDMCA and the Garn–St. Germain Act expanded the authority of federally chartered S&Ls to make acquisition, development, and construction real estate loans and eliminated the statutory limit on loan-to-value ratios. These changes allowed S&Ls to make high-risk loans to developers. Beginning in 1982, many S&Ls rapidly shifted away from traditional home mortgage financing and into new, high-risk investment activities such as casinos, fast-food franchises, ski resorts, junk bonds, arbitrage schemes, and derivative instruments.[16]

Federal deregulation also encouraged state legislatures to deregulate state-chartered S&Ls. Unfortunately, many of the states that deregulated S&Ls were also soft on supervision and enforcement. In some cases, state-chartered S&Ls had close political ties to elected officials and state regulators, which further weakened oversight.

The above laws were passed under Reagan, and you can see what happened as a direct result. Like I said before, Reagan bears some of the blame.

And having a national policy of "stopping communism" doesn't by any means excuse everything we did...because some things that we did made things worse instead of better. Perhaps the best example is our overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Iran back in the early 1950's and the installation of the U.S.-friendly Shah Reza Pahlavi. That had a lot to do with the hostage crisis under Carter, and is still biting us today. And why did we overthrow that democratically-elected government? Because they were going to nationalize their oil production, and Big Oil wanted to keep our oil fields there. Yeah, "stopping communism".

 

[The Mark]

IMO, Democrats can blow this election by doing the following:

1. Start grabbing guns
2. Coddling criminals
3. Ignoring immigration protocols
4. Turning a blind eye to the ISIS issue

Trump is running hard on numbers 3&4. He's touched on 2, but he hasn't hammered home on it. Mum's the word on 1, but then again the ink on Obama's executive order is still not dry.

From what I've heard about the EO's relating to #1, they won't (probably can't, legally?) be taking any guns that people already own, at worst it sounds like there will be prosecution of some people who were selling guns without background checks on the purchaser.

That's based in part on this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

Also sounds like there will be more spending on background check system (more FBI staff working on that) so it's faster, and enforcement (more ATF agents, among other things).

The one area I'm frankly most concerned about is point 3 in that link - mental health checks. I'm concerned about how they're going to determine who can and cannot have a firearm, based on what mental health criteria.

 

[Absentglare]

Got it, 1.7 trillion debt is much wore than 8.2 trillion for Obama

Got it, 16.1 million jobs created is much worse than the 7 million created by Obama

Yes, you have a very selective debate style and ignorance of actual data and what that data means. Happy New Year, I am done with you

I am aware of the data, it seems you seek to ignore the context of what either president has inherited.

It is trivially obvious that, in many ways, President Obama has been better for our economy.

 

[calamity]

From what I've heard about the EO's relating to #1, they won't (probably can't, legally?) be taking any guns that people already own, at worst it sounds like there will be prosecution of some people who were selling guns without background checks on the purchaser.

That's based in part on this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

Also sounds like there will be more spending on background check system (more FBI staff working on that) so it's faster, and enforcement (more ATF agents, among other things).

The one area I'm frankly most concerned about is point 3 in that link - mental health checks. I'm concerned about how they're going to determine who can and cannot have a firearm, based on what mental health criteria.

It definitely opens a can of worms. The Right is justified in its concerns over what just happened.

What gets me is that nothing on that list will have actually prevented any of the mass shootings, especially Sandy Hook. That nutjob's mom was not on any of the proposed ban lists. She would have still legally owned all those guns even if every one of Obama's EOs is carried out.

 

[The Mark]

It definitely opens a can of worms. The Right is justified in its concerns over what just happened.

What gets me is that nothing on that list will have actually prevented any of the mass shootings, especially Sandy Hook. That nutjob's mom was not on any of the proposed ban lists. She would have still legally owned all those guns even if every one of Obama's EOs is carried out.

The mental health care thing mentioned MIGHT have helped...If the guy who shot up sandy hook has received care he might not have done that?

Edit:I mean the part about improving mental health care, not the part where they tighten down restrictions on people who can buy guns based on mental health evaluations

 

[Conservative]

No, your focus is NOT on "performance, background, and results". If it were, you wouldn't be claiming that she has "no positive accomplishments". If you look at the conversation in this thread that I've been having with "Jack Fabulous", you'd see an example - mine - of being able to look at politicians objectively and state where they were wrong...and where they were right, even if they're not on your side. For instance, I hold Reagan as being one of our five best presidents ever (despite how terrible he was for our economy), and George H.W. Bush as being more responsible for our mid-90's economic boom than Clinton. This is called being objective without regard to one's personal or political beliefs.

If you were truly objective, then you'd be able to easily point out what ANY politician - regardless of side - has done right and wrong. Heck, even the KKK Grand Wizard David Duke probably did something right. Hitler certainly did (see "autobahn", and "German economy, recovery from Depression"). If you can't see positive accomplishments by a politician, then it's almost certainly because you're either not looking hard enough or choosing not to do so.

The problem is, on your side it's generally not allowed to state that Hillary - or Obama or Reid or Pelosi or whomever - has done anything right ever in their political careers. If you can't force yourself to see and publicly state what they've done right, then you are by definition not being objective in your observations and judgments.

Then by all means post what you perceive as her positive accomplishments in the various positions she has held. You posted a lot of words here that say absolutely Nothing. Apparently being a progressive is enough for you, certainly not for a conservative like me

 

[Conservative]

Ah. We shouldn't give regulatory protections to small businesses to encourage competition why? Because we've got a federal debt?

Am I the only one to see the disconnect here?

We have those protections now, what more do you want? What do you think the state does? How about enforcing the laws on the books vs. making new ones?

 

[ChezC3]

I love the failure that comes with such hubris...

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Then by all means post what you perceive as her positive accomplishments in the various positions she has held. You posted a lot of words here that say absolutely Nothing. Apparently being a progressive is enough for you, certainly not for a conservative like me

In other words, you're too lazy to Google "list Hillary accomplishments". But then, even once you read them, you'd immediately discount all of them since you can't allow yourself to think that maybe, just maybe Hillary's done quite a bit more than you thought.

But what the heck - I'll give you links to a couple of lists anyway...as if you'd actually look at them with even a modicum of objectivity.

List

List

 

[Conservative]

In other words, you're too lazy to Google "list Hillary accomplishments". But then, even once you read them, you'd immediately discount all of them since you can't allow yourself to think that maybe, just maybe Hillary's done quite a bit more than you thought.

But what the heck - I'll give you links to a couple of lists anyway...as if you'd actually look at them with even a modicum of objectivity.

List

List

No, actually I have done it and I find causes that she championed but no accomplishments that I would define as an actual accomplishment worthy of any support or showing any leadership skills. She is running on her name and her positions. Wonder if the Steven's family will be supporting her?

Wow!! A speech? a Role? Management of the state department? LOL

1. Her China speech on women.
2. Her role in killing Osama bin Laden.
3. Management of the State Department during which time we saw a 50 percent increase in exports to China, aggressive work on climate (particularly at Copenhagen), and the effort to create and implement the toughest sanctions ever on Iran—helping to lead us to the agreement currently on the table

Read more: What Is Hillary Clinton's Greatest Accomplishment? - POLITICO Magazine

 

[Absentglare]

No, actually I have done it and I find causes that she championed but no accomplishments that I would define as an actual accomplishment worthy of any support or showing any leadership skills. She is running on her name and her positions. Wonder if the Steven's family will be supporting her?

Wow!! A speech? a Role? Management of the state department? LOL


Read more: What Is Hillary Clinton's Greatest Accomplishment? - POLITICO Magazine

After being in the senate for TWO YEARS, Ted Cruz has his name (sponsor or co-sponsored) on only ONE piece of legislation that made it into law. That's the kind of ineptitude that takes effort to accomplish.

He's hitting a 1 bill / 2 years = 0.5 avg

Hillary Clinton has been on 77 bills that became laws during her 8 years of service.

She's hitting a 77 bills / 8 years = 9.625 avg

That makes Hillary about 20 times better than Cruz.

Suffice it to say, Carson, Fiorina, and Trump are all ZEROS insofar as political accomplishments are concerned.

That leaves, what, Christie and Rubio ? Lol...

 

[Glen Contrarian]

No, actually I have done it and I find causes that she championed but no accomplishments that I would define as an actual accomplishment worthy of any support or showing any leadership skills. She is running on her name and her positions. Wonder if the Steven's family will be supporting her?

Wow!! A speech? a Role? Management of the state department? LOL


Read more: What Is Hillary Clinton's Greatest Accomplishment? - POLITICO Magazine

I think the bolded line above says it all. It doesn't matter what she's ever done, it will never, ever be good enough for you to be considered an accomplishment.

But I'll toss out a few of them:

Iran sanctions. Sec. Clinton accomplished the nearly impossible mission of getting China, Russia, the European Union and the civilized world on board with crippling sanctions against Iran. This is what brought Iran to the negotiating table. Ms. Fiorina may not see that as an accomplishment, since while she was CEO of Hewlett-Packard the firm sold hundreds of millions of dollars of computer products the the terrorist regime in Tehran, evading US sanctions.

Having worked with her in the Senate and on the HELP Committee, the first thing that came to mind was her authorship of the Pediatric Research Equity Act. This law requires drug companies to study their products in children. The Act is responsible for changing the drug labeling of hundreds of drugs with important information about safety and dosing of drugs for children. It has improved the health of millions of children who take medications to treat diseases ranging from HIV to epilepsy to asthma. Millions of kids are in better shape and alive because of the law Senator Clinton authored.

Hillary Clinton was instrumental in helping secure $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after 9/11. She fought tooth and nail to protect the first responders who rushed into danger when the towers collapsed and was pivotal in the passage of legislation that helped those first responders who got sick get the care and treatment they deserved. She worked night and day to protect and create jobs in New York, whether that was at the Niagara Falls Air Force base or the Center for Bioinformatics at the University of Buffalo. She also led the charge on the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act, which is now the law of the land.

After universal health care failed in 1994, the Clinton Administration was reluctant to go anywhere near healthcare again—Democrats lost the Senate and the House in 1994, and losing the house was for the first time in 40 years. Then-First Lady Hilary Clinton ended up being the White House ally and inside player who worked with Ted Kennedy and Orrin Hatch to create the SCHIP program in Clinton's second term, which expanded health coverage to millions of lower-income children.

I was chairman of the State Department’s budget committee when she was Secretary of State, and I worked closely with her—week to week, and sometimes day to day—on a wide, wide range of issues and challenges, from human rights to global health. We traveled together to Haiti as we worked to help that country recover from the devastation of the earthquake. She had a leading role in securing tougher sanctions on Iran. We worked together to successfully overcome obstruction by House Republicans of the funding she requested to improve embassy security around the world.

When I was there, she played a very active role in rallying the world behind the global sanctions against Iran that brought them to the table over their nuclear program. She was the point person in Copenhagen in compelling the Chinese to commit to cutting carbon emissions. She personally negotiated a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. Those are a few that come to mind.

As First Lady, Hillary was the point person in the Clinton Administration on the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, a bill that refocused adoption policies on the needs of the children, made it easier to remove children from abusive situations, provided support and services to adoptive families, and encouraged adoption of children with special needs. The bill increased foster adoptions by 64 percent by 2002. Hillary helped develop the idea behind this bill, first writing about it in a 1995 article. She went on to work with Republicans and Democrats in Congress, including moderate Rhode Island Republican John Chafee, to see the bill through to final passage, helping broker compromises to ensure the bill’s passage.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

No, actually I have done it and I find causes that she championed but no accomplishments that I would define as an actual accomplishment worthy of any support or showing any leadership skills. She is running on her name and her positions. Wonder if the Steven's family will be supporting her?

Wow!! A speech? a Role? Management of the state department? LOL


Read more: What Is Hillary Clinton's Greatest Accomplishment? - POLITICO Magazine

Continued

- Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
- She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it – Gulf War Syndrome.
- At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
- Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
- Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners’ Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
- Brokered human rights with Burma.
- Oversaw free trade agreements with our allies such as Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.

But in Conservative World, she ain't done nuthin!

 

[Conservative]

Continued

- Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
- She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it – Gulf War Syndrome.
- At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
- Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
- Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners’ Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
- Brokered human rights with Burma.
- Oversaw free trade agreements with our allies such as Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.

But in Conservative World, she ain't done nuthin!

You are probably right, I will and could never vote for someone as unethical as Hillary for the office You buy the website information, and I buy her history with Bill, in her private life, and her public life. Wonder if the Stevens Family will vote for her?

 

[Absentglare]

You are probably right, I will and could never vote for someone as unethical as Hillary for the office You buy the website information, and I buy her history with Bill, in her private life, and her public life. Wonder if the Stevens Family will vote for her?

Can you give her credit for anything ?

Resolve ?

Persistence ?

Strength ?

Dedication ?

Loyalty ?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

You are probably right, I will and could never vote for someone as unethical as Hillary for the office You buy the website information, and I buy her history with Bill, in her private life, and her public life. Wonder if the Stevens Family will vote for her?

Yeah, I figured as much. Instead of looking at the websites, and investigating that website's claims, you assume that the websites must be lying. Why? Because they say things you can't allow yourself to even consider as possibly being true.

This, sir, is why reality has a liberal bias.

 

[Grant]

Continued

- Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
- She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it – Gulf War Syndrome.
- At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
- Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
- Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners’ Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
- Brokered human rights with Burma.
- Oversaw free trade agreements with our allies such as Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.

But in Conservative World, she ain't done nuthin!

Lets take a closer look at just one of those claims, the trade agreement. https://www.gop.com/clintons-other-trade-flip-flop/

 

[Jetboogieman]

Lets take a closer look at just one of those claims, the trade agreement. https://www.gop.com/clintons-other-trade-flip-flop/

Yes.

For a solid, balanced, objective and well rounded look at Clintons accomplishments, let's use GOP.com.

 

[Kobie]

Yes.

For a solid, balanced, objective and well rounded look at Clintons accomplishments, let's use GOP.com.

That's what passes for a legitimate argument from some posters here. Pretty sad state of affairs.

 

[Conservative]

Can you give her credit for anything ?

Resolve ?

Persistence ?

Strength ?

Dedication ?

Loyalty ?

None of which show leadership skills. so NO. Too bad you don't appear to understand leadership at all and the requirements of leadership. People don't change and Hillary is a lying incompetent bitch

 

[Conservative]

Yeah, I figured as much. Instead of looking at the websites, and investigating that website's claims, you assume that the websites must be lying. Why? Because they say things you can't allow yourself to even consider as possibly being true.

This, sir, is why reality has a liberal bias.

Please tell me what any of those accomplishments will translate into managing the U.S. private sector economy? She is a lying incompetent bitch

 

[Master PO]

let it be understood, that in 2008 it was said that republicans would no longer win the WH or congress and that they were done as a party.

iam not a republican by the way.

 

[Conservative]

let it be understood, that in 2008 it was said that republicans would no longer win the WH or congress and that they were done as a party.

iam not a republican by the way.

Yet the Republicans won the House in 2010, retained it in 2012, and won the Congress in 2014. Interesting, isn't it?

 

[Master PO]

Yet the Republicans won the House in 2010, retained it in 2012, and won the Congress in 2014. Interesting, isn't it?

thats way people making predictions does not hold water.

 

[Absentglare]

None of which show leadership skills. so NO. Too bad you don't appear to understand leadership at all and the requirements of leadership. People don't change and Hillary is a lying incompetent bitch

Is leadership the only positive quality ?

Can you give her credit for anything ? Her hair ? Putting on clothes in the morning ? Being professionally successful ?