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Hell In The BIBLE

I was refering to the Christian idea of burning in hell of eternal torment for rejecting Christ of the New Testament. There is different believes in different
faith of what hell is.
Yeah, which is a lie, adopted from pagan beliefs...the Bible does not teach hellfire...does this sound like a God who would do such a thing?

"They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom,*+ in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire,+ something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’* Jeremiah 7:31
 
The grave is Sheol/hell...according to you, everyone goes to heaven or hellfire when they die...that is not true...


Elvira, you're confusing physical death with spiritual death......................... and, Sheol with Hell. They're not the same.

Let me explain it as simple as I can:


When we first die (physical death on earth), our soul leaves the physical body and it goes to Sheol to await the Second Coming,
while life still goes on in the earthly world.

Lol....Sheoul would be like the "holding pen" for the dead while they wait for the final judgment.


In His Second Coming, all the dead will rise up to be judged.

Those who are condemned will be cast into Hell - which God describes as the SECOND DEATH!
 
Wrong...
HELL
A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001978
:rolleyes:

It's your JW.org that got its interpretation wrong.


Here, from KING JAMES BIBLE Study Guide:


HADES
"That which is out of sight, a Greek word used to denote the" state or place of the dead.
All the dead alike go into this "place. To be buried, to go down to the grave, to descend into" "hades, are equivalent expressions.

In the LXX. this word is the" "usual rendering of the Hebrew sheol, the
common receptacle of" the departed (Gen. 42:38; Ps. 139:8;
Hos. 13:14; Isa. 14:9).

This term is of comparatively rare occurrence in the Greek New "Testament. Our Lord speaks of Capernaum as being "brought down" "to hell" (hades), i.e., simply to the lowest debasement, (Matt." 11:23).
It is contemplated as a kind of kingdom which could "never overturn the foundation of Christ's kingdom (16:18), i.e.," Christ's church can never die. "In Luke 16:23 it is most distinctly associated with the doom and misery of the lost.


"In Acts 2:27-31 Peter quotes the LXX. version of Ps. 16:8-11, plainly for the purpose of proving our Lord's resurrection from "the dead.
David was left in the place of the dead, and his body" saw corruption. Not so with Christ. According to ancient prophecy (Ps. 30:3) he was recalled to life.






What was God talking about with.....SECOND DEATH?
 
Elvira, you're confusing physical death with spiritual death......................... and, Sheol with Hell. They're not the same.

Let me explain it as simple as I can:


When we first die (physical death on earth), our soul leaves the physical body and it goes to Sheol to await the Second Coming,
while life still goes on in the earthly world.

Lol....Sheoul would be like the "holding pen" for the dead while they wait for the final judgment.


In His Second Coming, all the dead will rise up to be judged.

Those who are condemned will be cast into Hell - which God describes as the SECOND DEATH!
Death is death...until and only when the resurrection occurs...then there will be life everlasting or the 2nd/final death...no hellfire but eternal destruction...

" And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+ " Revelation 20:14

But as for the cowards and those without faith+ and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers+ and the sexually immoral*+ and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars,+ their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur.+ This means the second death.+ Revelation 21:5
 
:rolleyes:

It's your JW.org that got its interpretation wrong.


Here, from KING JAMES BIBLE Study Guide:


HADES
"That which is out of sight, a Greek word used to denote the" state or place of the dead.
All the dead alike go into this "place. To be buried, to go down to the grave, to descend into" "hades, are equivalent expressions.

In the LXX. this word is the" "usual rendering of the Hebrew sheol, the
common receptacle of" the departed (Gen. 42:38; Ps. 139:8;
Hos. 13:14; Isa. 14:9).

This term is of comparatively rare occurrence in the Greek New "Testament. Our Lord speaks of Capernaum as being "brought down" "to hell" (hades), i.e., simply to the lowest debasement, (Matt." 11:23).
It is contemplated as a kind of kingdom which could "never overturn the foundation of Christ's kingdom (16:18), i.e.," Christ's church can never die. "In Luke 16:23 it is most distinctly associated with the doom and misery of the lost.


"In Acts 2:27-31 Peter quotes the LXX. version of Ps. 16:8-11, plainly for the purpose of proving our Lord's resurrection from "the dead.
David was left in the place of the dead, and his body" saw corruption. Not so with Christ. According to ancient prophecy (Ps. 30:3) he was recalled to life.






What was God talking about with.....SECOND DEATH?
You and the KJV got it wrong...if hell is fire, why does the KJV say...I'll tell you why...hell is the grave and the lake of fire represents destruction...permanent death...

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." KJV

"And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+" NWT
 
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Death is death...until and only when the resurrection occurs...then there will be life everlasting or the 2nd/final death...no hellfire but eternal destruction...


Rev 20
" And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+ " Revelation 20:14
:rolleyes:

Preceded by the sea, which is a place -

"Death" is referred to as a name of a place, in Revelations 20. The letter D is capitalized!
The same with the "Grave." Look at your quote - G is capitalized! But - your death isn't capitalized! :) It was doctored again! :ROFLMAO:

Here is the Biblical verse you quoted:



13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,
and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

14 Then
Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.








But as for the cowards and those without faith+ and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers+ and the sexually immoral*+ and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars,+ their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur.+ This means the second death.+ Revelation 21:5



Btw, you do know that you do not interpret the rest of the Bible based on one verse alone, right?
 
You and the KJV got it wrong...if hell is fire, why does the KJV say...I'll tell you why...hell is the grave and the lake of fire represents destruction...permanent death...

I gave the explanation straight from KJV - copy/pasted! 🤷





"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." KJV

"And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+" NWT


Death and Hades are names of places.
Just as the sea is a place that has given up the dead who were in it, so did Hades and Death.



Rev 20

13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged,
each one of them, according to what they had done.


14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.




Rev 1

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said:
“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!
And
I hold the keys of death and Hades.





They're also both depicted as names of entities:



Rev 6
And I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and
he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. And authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and
with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.






I can't force you to drink, Elvira. That choice will have to come from you.
 
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:rolleyes:

Preceded by the sea, which is a place -

"Death" is referred to as a name of a place, in Revelations 20. The letter D is capitalized!
The same with the "Grave." Look at your quote - G is capitalized! But - your death isn't capitalized! :) It was doctored again! :ROFLMAO:

Here is the Biblical verse you quoted:



13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,
and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

14 Then
Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.












Btw, you do know that you do not interpret the rest of the Bible based on one verse alone, right?

Hades/hell is the grave...
 
I gave the explanation straight from KJV - copy/pasted! 🤷
Exactly my point...the KJV is wrong and so are you...Hades/hell is not a place...it is the grave...

As for" the sea"...remember, Revaluation is a vision, which represents something...John tells us exactly what "the sea" represents in Revelation 17:15...hint...it is NOT a place...

"He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.*+"
 
I would like to think that a supreme being, if he MUST be a punishment freak, would have more imagination than a lake of fire.
 
Exactly my point...the KJV is wrong and so are you...Hades/hell is not a place...it is the grave...

No - it's a place.
You were the one who quoted which you said was something from the KJV. I went to KJV and copy/pasted.

No, we're not wrong. Many verses from the Scriptures support our claim.




As for" the sea"...remember, Revaluation is a vision, which represents something...John tells us exactly what "the sea" represents in Revelation 17:15...hint...it is NOT a place...

"He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.*+"

What is that particular verse? Why don't you say which one is that precisely?
I don't want to take your word for it - your explanations tend to be out of context with the Scriptures.

CITE the Book/chapter! I want to read it for myself.
 
No - it's a place.
You were the one who quoted which you said was something from the KJV. I went to KJV and copy/pasted.

No, we're not wrong. Many verses from the Scriptures support our claim.





What is that particular verse? Why don't you say which one is that precisely?
I don't want to take your word for it - your explanations tend to be out of context with the Scriptures.

CITE the Book/chapter! I want to read it for myself.
A place with fire, according to you...so what's the purpose of throwing fire into fire?
 
A place with fire, according to you...so what's the purpose of throwing fire into fire?


Obviously, they are used as imageries.

It's a place for the dead......and, it's also a name of an entity.



Rev 6
8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse!
Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague,
and by the wild beasts of the earth.



Being thrown into the lake of fire -is it fire in the literal sense? We don't know exactly.
But what we do know, it isn't a pleasant place to be in for all eternity.
And yes, there is consciousness................. therefore, it cannot be that the damned just ceases to exist.
 
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It's also a name of an entity.
You are not answering the question...what is the purpose of throwing fire into fire? And no, it is no such thing...Revelation is a VISION...which obviously you have no idea what it's about...get back to me when you know what you're talking about...

Keys to understanding the book of Revelation
  1. Revelation uses many “signs,” or symbols, that are not to be understood literally.—Revelation 1:1.
  2. Many major entities and symbols in the book of Revelation are introduced earlier in the Bible:
  3. The visions apply to “the Lord’s day,” which began when God’s Kingdom was set up in 1914 and Jesus began ruling as King. (Revelation 1:10) We can therefore expect the main fulfillment of Revelation to be in our time.
  4. To understand the book of Revelation, we need the same things that help us to understand the rest of the Bible, including wisdom from God and assistance from those who already understand it.—Acts 8:26-39; James 1:5.
 
You are not answering the question...what is the purpose of throwing fire into fire?

What on earth is "fire" that is being thrown into the fire? Explain!

You- yourself- had stated below, that Revelations uses symbols - so, why would that (fire being thrown into the fire) be such an issue if
it could be symbolism?

One minute you're taking things literally - and then the next, you're lecturing about symbolisms!
:LOL:





And no, it is no such thing...Revelation is a VISION...which obviously you have no idea what it's about...get back to me when you know what you're talking about...

Keys to understanding the book of Revelation

I get it that Revelations has so many symbols! Thus I asked........................... is fire to be taken literally?
Could it be that God uses fire so we can relate to the pain and torment the the soul will experience - something He's making us understand?
I don't know.


But what I do know is that there will be torment - the torment will be NEVER-ENDING, and that there will be consciousness about it!
It will be felt!



Yes, it's a vision - visions also seen by Daniel (which, coincidentally I'm reading these days).
This morning, I was on Daniel 12, which is his vision about the END TIMES!


Daniel 12


The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.



You can't be shamed if you aren't around, as in ceasing to exist. And you can't experience shame and contempt, if you don't feel!
This scenario is supported and compounded by Christ's Parable about the Rich Man and poor man, Lazarus.



Luke 16

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
because
I am in agony in this fire.’


27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,

28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.



If you can't feel, you won't know anything about agony and torment!

Therefore, the soul will be conscious - FOREVER!
 
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What on earth is "fire" that is being thrown into the fire? Explain!

You- yourself- had stated below, that Revelations uses symbols - so, why would that (fire being thrown into the fire) be such an issue if
it could be symbolism?

One minute you're taking things literally - and then the next, you're lecturing about symbolisms!
:LOL:







I get it that Revelations has so many symbols! Thus I asked........................... is fire to be taken literally?
Could it be that God uses fire so we can relate to the pain and torment the the soul will experience - something He's making us understand?
I don't know.


But what I do know is that there will be torment - the torment will be NEVER-ENDING, and that there will be consciousness about it!
It will be felt!



Yes, it's a vision - visions also seen by Daniel (which, coincidentally I'm reading these days).
This morning, I was on Daniel 12, which is his vision about the END TIMES!


Daniel 12


The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.



You can't be shamed if you aren't around, as in ceasing to exist. And you can't experience shame and contempt, if you don't feel!
This scenario is supported and compounded by Christ's Parable about the Rich Man and poor man, Lazarus.



Luke 16

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
because
I am in agony in this fire.’


27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,

28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.



If you can't feel, you won't know anything about agony and torment!

Therefore, the soul will be conscious - FOREVER!
There is no talking to you, it's like talking to an argumentive child...get back to me when you can actually follow/comprehend the conversation in a mature way... :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, which is a lie, adopted from pagan beliefs...the Bible does not teach hellfire...does this sound like a God who would do such a thing?




Yes - God can do such a thing!
He had already shown what He can do - in the Old Testament! Several times!




AND, if you believe Jesus is NOT God - then you saw what happened to Jesus!


JESUS WAS THE SACRIFICIAL LAMB THAT GOD USED TO ATONE FOR OUR SINS!
HE WENT THRU TORTURE AND A PAINFUL DEATH!



IF GOD CAN DO THAT TO HIS OWN SON.......think again! :)





"They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom,*+ in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire,+ something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’* Jeremiah 7:31


You're taking a page from Satan now? You're using God's own words against Him for an argument?



CONTEXT, Elvira. CONTEXT.

In that chapter, Jeremiah is talking about
False GODS!

God refers to offering children as sacrifice to other gods in those high places!



Jeremiah 7


False Religion Worthless



20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—
on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.



The Valley of Slaughter

30 “‘The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the Lord. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it.
31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.


32 So beware, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.
33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away.
34 I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.



Take note that God compares His anger and wrath to something that burns and unquenchable.
That is the same description that is given to the fire.



We saw several depictions of God's horrific wrath in the Old Testament! For what? REJECTION!
He was repeatedly set aside for other gods! How many times were the Jews punished?
Why were the pagans punished as well? For leading the Jews to other gods! God's wrath was so intense then.

What more when He had sacrificed Himself to redeem us! He had died for us....................and yet, the wicked still reject Him!



We are promised a blissful inheritance - of eternal life with God.........in contrast with eternal sufferings in hell.
We are warned how many times in the New Testament to choose well.
We have been forewarned with horrible imagery
of eternal punishment that await those who will be damned!

If, in spite of all that - some will still choose to reject God -


Is it far-fetched to think why God's wrath and fury will be poured on them on Judgment Day?
Why the punishment will be eternal, and so horrendous? Why there would be consciousness as it is experienced?
 
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There is no talking to you, it's like talking to an argumentive child...get back to me when you can actually follow/comprehend the conversation in a mature way... :rolleyes:

That's your last resort tactic - your excuse to run away. :LOL:

Why won't you explain? What do you mean by "fire" being thrown into the fire?
What is "fire" that's being thrown into the fire?


I showed you this:

Rev 6

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.
They were given power
over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague,
and by the wild beasts of the earth.





Rev 20
14 Then
Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.




DEATH and HADES - PERSONIFIED!




Being thrown into the lake of fire -is it fire in the literal sense? We don't know exactly.
But what we do know, it isn't a pleasant place to be in for all eternity.
And yes, there is consciousness................. therefore, it cannot be that the damned just ceases to exist.


You should give your rebuttal!
 
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There is no talking to you, it's like talking to an argumentive child...get back to me when you can actually follow/comprehend the conversation in a mature way... :rolleyes:



It all boils down whether there is consciousness for the dead! Right?


Will they be aware of what's happening throughout eternity?


Several verses had stated that yes, there is!
LOGIC states that yes, there is!





8. The Consciousness of the Soul After Death


Is the soul conscious after death? This is not a new question. For centuries there have been certain religionists who have contended that the soul existed after death but that it was not conscious. Upon investigation, some of you may be surprised to know of the wide-spread belief in the teaching of the sleeping of the soul. Because of the universal interest in the whereabouts of the dead, false sects prey upon the public, claiming complete knowledge of the subject. Such groups as Jehovah’s Witnesses, spiritualists and others have spread the sophistical conclusion that at death the body returns to dust and the soul becomes unconscious.
Such statements as the following are but a few of the distortions and perversions of the Holy Scriptures that have to do with the soul after death. “At death, it is not the body but the soul which dies.” “


The New Testament Teaches
Man’s Endless Conscious Existence


The citation of a few New Testament verses make it clear that man’s conscious existence is endless.


And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose (Matthew 27:52).


Please notice how the Holy Spirit says that the “bodies” slept. Jesus said:


Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep . . . Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead (John 11:11, 14).

 
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Will they be aware of what's happening throughout eternity?

Several verses had stated that yes, there is!
LOGIC states that yes, there is!
No, there is no logic whatsoever that "states" that there is eternal consciousness after death.

I have read that elves go to Valinor after they die, but they can be reborn in Middle Earth. I've read that before. Seriously. It's written right here in a book that I have. Therefore logic states that elves are immortal and dwell in Valinor, unless they're reborn in Middle Earth, of course. Obviously!
 
Correct, and no scripture that supports such a thing...

Even if scripture said such a thing, that doesn't result in there being any logic whatsoever to the idea that it could possibly be true. If the Bible literally stated "after you die you will retain consciousness for eternity, and you will either consciously enjoy eternal bliss, or you will consciously suffer eternal torment," that still would not make it true. It would just mean a person wrote those words once, and then those words got put into a book we call the Bible. That's all it would mean. There is no evidence of anything like that, there can't be evidence of anything like that, and thus there is no "logical" element to determining it to be true or false.
 
If the Bible literally stated "after you die you will retain consciousness for eternity, and you will either consciously enjoy eternal bliss, or you will consciously suffer eternal torment," that still would not make it true.
But it doesn't...that's the beauty of the Bible...it speaks the truth...
 
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