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healthcare.gov is the problem . . .

MaggieD

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Why does one have to go to healthcare.gov for a quote? Well, the short answer is that you don't; but that's what we've been led to believe. Here's a link to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois which has complete pricing and whether or not one is eligible for a subsidy -- for their compan. You know, like "the old days" when companies competed for business. Health Insurance Shopping Guide | Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois

healthcare.gov just puts all the insurance companies on equal footing. A one-stop-shop, if you will, at the expense of common sense since the website is a disaster.

It never occurred to me that the gvmt was trying to step in the middle of competition by allowing comparison shopping on a government website. This simply confuses the issue.

Get rid of the website and let people shop as they always have. healthcare.gov is a whore's nightmare.
 

ttwtt78640

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That federal website is useful to determine which companies are playing the PPACA exchange game in your state. BCBS (or any other big company) may not be participating in the PPACA exchange in all states.
 

MaggieD

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That federal website is useful to determine which companies are playing the PPACA exchange game in your state. BCBS (or any other big company) may not be participating in the PPACA exchange in all states.

That's always been true. All insurance companies do not write insurance in all states. Every insurance company is playing the PPACA game. That's the only health insurance that's "legal." Even if that weren't true? The insurance companies ask for a zip code of the applicant. At the most it would be helpful to have a list of all insurance companies offering product in one's state . . . don't have to run through a government website to accomplish that.

Think about it -- when you put all of the competition in one place, then the only way one has an advantage over another is to make the product you're shopping for so damned confusing that one can't TELL which is the better deal . . .

Otherwise, it'd be a simple matter of clicking on "Here's the companies in your state offering plans." And there'd be one that would be cheaper than everyone else. Plan details will be intentionally obfuscated and convoluted so that it will be difficult to comparison shop.
 

Visbek

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Healthcare.gov is getting slammed. You should expect it to be a overloaded, slow, glitchy etc for at least a week. It'll get better soon.

I also don't see any indication that this prevents companies from competing via other means.
 

MaggieD

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Healthcare.gov is getting slammed. You should expect it to be a overloaded, slow, glitchy etc for at least a week. It'll get better soon.

I also don't see any indication that this prevents companies from competing via other means.

That's true. But people are being led to believe that's the place to go. Why is the government involved in that part of the process? Write the specifications for coverage and get the hell out of the way.
 

Visbek

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Every insurance company is playing the PPACA game. That's the only health insurance that's "legal."
Insurers are NOT required by any law to participate in the exchanges. E.g. Aetna is not participating in the exchanges in 5 states.

I believe that it is only plans that participate in the exchanges which qualify for the subsidies, but I need to verify that.
 

MaggieD

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Insurers are NOT required by any law to participate in the exchanges. E.g. Aetna is not participating in the exchanges in 5 states.

I believe that it is only plans that participate in the exchanges which qualify for the subsidies, but I need to verify that.

I'd accept what you're saying -- re your last sentence -- because that's the only reason an insurance company WOULD participate in the exchange. Re the first part? Insurance companies have NEVER written insurance in all states so that's nothing new.
 

Visbek

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That's true. But people are being led to believe that's the place to go. Why is the government involved in that part of the process? Write the specifications for coverage and get the hell out of the way.
The exchanges are a major component of the health care reform. The idea is to present the ratepayers with a list of the companies and their prices, to make it easy to compare plans. I.e. the goal is to streamline competition.
 

Visbek

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I'd accept what you're saying -- re your last sentence -- because that's the only reason an insurance company WOULD participate in the exchange. Re the first part? Insurance companies have NEVER written insurance in all states so that's nothing new.
To be clear:

1) Insurers are not being forced to offer insurance via the exchanges. Each insurer makes its own decision whether or not to participate in the exchanges.
2) Insurers can still sell coverage directly in other ways. I don't know if the non-exchange plans can still refuse to accept people because of pre-existing conditions.
3) Subsidies only go to individuals. I'm pretty sure that individuals only get a subsidy if they buy a plan through the exchange.
 

MaggieD

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The exchanges are a major component of the health care reform. The idea is to present the ratepayers with a list of the companies and their prices, to make it easy to compare plans. I.e. the goal is to streamline competition.

No, that's not the goal. Think about it, Visbek. The goal is to confuse people about the product and spread the business around. If that weren't the goal, then one company would get all the business. I'm not explaining what I'm thinking very well . . . let me try again . . .

The government has written specs for what they're calling Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans. Go to the exchange and it should be a simple matter of pulling up all the insurance companies in your state who are offering Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans and compare prices. There would always be just one who would be cheaper than the rest. Why would anyone sign up for one that was more expensive? So it follows then that the details of the plans will be confusing and deliberately obtuse so that one will find it very difficult to comparison shop.
 

FederalRepublic

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Why does one have to go to healthcare.gov for a quote? Well, the short answer is that you don't; but that's what we've been led to believe. Here's a link to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois which has complete pricing and whether or not one is eligible for a subsidy -- for their compan. You know, like "the old days" when companies competed for business. Health Insurance Shopping Guide | Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois

healthcare.gov just puts all the insurance companies on equal footing. A one-stop-shop, if you will, at the expense of common sense since the website is a disaster.

It never occurred to me that the gvmt was trying to step in the middle of competition by allowing comparison shopping on a government website. This simply confuses the issue.

Get rid of the website and let people shop as they always have. healthcare.gov is a whore's nightmare.

But we had to find a way to spend billions of dollars to fund a new government bureaucracy so that people would be able to shop for the private health insurance they're being forced to buy. This is so embarrassing to me as a human being...
 

Visbek

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The government has written specs for what they're calling Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans. Go to the exchange and it should be a simple matter of pulling up all the insurance companies in your state who are offering Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans and compare prices.
Correct. And in doing so, they are putting these companies into direct competition. It makes it clear to every potential applicant what companies are participating in the exchange, what plans they offer, and their prices.

New Jersey, for example, has published plan information for all insurers in the state, along with what they offer and their prices. They've been doing this for at least 10 years. http://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcratepage_sp.pdf


There would always be just one who would be cheaper than the rest. Why would anyone sign up for one that was more expensive?
1) Bigger or better roster of doctors and hospitals
2) Customer service
3) Reputation

I concur that price is a big motivator, but that actually becomes a good thing. If the insurers start competing against one another on price, that will bring prices down.
 

trfjr

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No, that's not the goal. Think about it, Visbek. The goal is to confuse people about the product and spread the business around. If that weren't the goal, then one company would get all the business. I'm not explaining what I'm thinking very well . . . let me try again . . .

The government has written specs for what they're calling Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans. Go to the exchange and it should be a simple matter of pulling up all the insurance companies in your state who are offering Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans and compare prices. There would always be just one who would be cheaper than the rest. Why would anyone sign up for one that was more expensive? So it follows then that the details of the plans will be confusing and deliberately obtuse so that one will find it very difficult to comparison shop.
the goal of the PPACA exchange was to create a large pool of percipients as an attempt to lower the cost, but the problem that will rear its ugly head in 6 months they have to meet the goal they set of young healthy members to enter the pool to keep those premiums at the entail quoted price. if that goal is not met and if only the old and ones with preexisting conditions enter the pool the premiums will have to be raised which will cause less young and healthy to enroll. like a snow ball rolling down a hill the premiums will just get larger and larger till Obama care collapses from its own cost
 

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No, that's not the goal. Think about it, Visbek. The goal is to confuse people about the product and spread the business around. If that weren't the goal, then one company would get all the business. I'm not explaining what I'm thinking very well . . . let me try again . . .

The government has written specs for what they're calling Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans. Go to the exchange and it should be a simple matter of pulling up all the insurance companies in your state who are offering Bronze, Silver and Gold Plans and compare prices. There would always be just one who would be cheaper than the rest. Why would anyone sign up for one that was more expensive? So it follows then that the details of the plans will be confusing and deliberately obtuse so that one will find it very difficult to comparison shop.

If you're confused, you should probably call the IRS. I hear they are the experts now.
 

Visbek

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the problem that will rear its ugly head in 6 months they have to meet the goal they set of young healthy members to enter the pool to keep those premiums at the entail quoted price....
Insurers will be just fine.

This system has been in place in Massachusetts since 2006, and insurance premiums in MA have grown at half the rate as the US average.
 

trfjr

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Insurers will be just fine.

This system has been in place in Massachusetts since 2006, and insurance premiums in MA have grown at half the rate as the US average.

i don't know enough about the MA plan as in what mechanism they have in place to make sure enough young and healthy are enrolled to keep the price down, but I can promise you this under Obama care the majority of the young and healthy they will need to sign up wont because it is cheaper to pay the fine then it is to buy the insurance that they feel they don't need.
they wont even be paying the fine because that fine is going to be enforced by the IRS being taken out of you tax return check and most young do not get a refund check
 

Visbek

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i don't know enough about the MA plan as in what mechanism they have in place to make sure enough young and healthy are enrolled to keep the price down....
Almost every major provision of the ACA was based on Romney's MA plan. This includes the mandates, exchanges, subsidies, expansion of Medicare/Medicaid and requirements to accept people with pre-existing conditions.

Almost 97% of MA now has health insurance. It's doing fine.


they wont even be paying the fine because that fine is going to be enforced by the IRS being taken out of you tax return check and most young do not get a refund check
It's the same as any other penalty. If you are hit with a $600 tax penalty, and you would otherwise get a $200 refund, you will be required to pay $400 to the IRS when you file.
 

trfjr

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Almost every major provision of the ACA was based on Romney's MA plan. This includes the mandates, exchanges, subsidies, expansion of Medicare/Medicaid and requirements to accept people with pre-existing conditions.

Almost 97% of MA now has health insurance. It's doing fine.



It's the same as any other penalty. If you are hit with a $600 tax penalty, and you would otherwise get a $200 refund, you will be required to pay $400 to the IRS when you file.

so what are they going to do send the FBI to arrest them sure they will make Obama care even more popular

You don't understand demographics to well do you
for Obama care to work you need enough young and healthy to sign up who can afford those premiums. the ones that make enough to pay for the premiums are working there for the majority gets health insurance from their work. there isn't enough young and health that has the money and willing to pay the money for the premiums for Obama care that doesn't already have insurance
 

Visbek

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so what are they going to do send the FBI to arrest them sure they will make Obama care even more popular
It's exactly the same as any other tax penalty or liability.


You don't understand demographics to well do you
I understand it very well, including (as you point out) the need to get healthier people into the insurance pool.

I also understand that the mandates do apparently work, since MA has used a nearly identical program since 2006, now has nearly 97% of the state covered, and insurers are not going bankrupt.

I don't think anyone expects the ACA to be that successful. 80-85% after 5 years seems much more likely.
 

trfjr

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It's exactly the same as any other tax penalty or liability.



I understand it very well, including (as you point out) the need to get healthier people into the insurance pool.

I also understand that the mandates do apparently work, since MA has used a nearly identical program since 2006, now has nearly 97% of the state covered, and insurers are not going bankrupt.

I don't think anyone expects the ACA to be that successful. 80-85% after 5 years seems much more likely.

they have till 2014 elections to have it look successful if it isn't democrats lose the senate
 
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