Health care companies would quickly go out of business if they approved every procedure their clients wanted. What's the solution?

[dmpi]

Just close all the hospitals. No health care, no problem.

You want a Cadillac health care system, not just for the rich and well off but for absolutely everyone and you don't want to pay for it. Of course the solution is the empty set.

 

[Phys251]

Slippery slope, but aside from the federal government telling healthcare companies how much they can pay upper management and higher, which we all know won't happen, I dont see how these companies can O.K. all procedures and still stay in business. Premiums would have to skyrocket and doctors and nurses would be paid less. Besides cutting upper management pay, does anyone have an idea how to improve clients getting approved for things now being denied?

Other countries do not have the problems that US healthcare does. Why not give their plans a try?

We need to do whatever it takes to get cost down. That means people actually shop price for medical treatments. That means none or very few goverment subsidies. That means no free ER for the homeless and poor. That means quit pandering to fake mental illnesses. That means addiction is a behavior problem, not a medical problem. You can see why this problem is unique to America.

"Fake mental illnesses"? WTF?

 

[tshade]

The biggest hurdle I think would be successfully raising the tax revenue needed.

The economic freedom created, alone, would raise the revenue in a short time. We could also put a miniscule tax (.03%) on all financial transactions that would hurt no one.

 

[Greenbeard]

You want a Cadillac health care system, not just for the rich and well off but for absolutely everyone and you don't want to pay for it. Of course the solution is the empty set.

I think we should have an effective, high-value health care system and pay for it.

 

[aociswundumho]

The problem is that no one wants to make less money. From the CEO's all the way down to medical equipment companies.

No, the problem is that they are all shielded from genuine competition.

Fifty years ago we had the same problem (but to a much smaller degree) with airlines. Then Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation in 1978. This is what happened to the price of flying:



Unfortunately, that's not going to happen with healthcare today, because this "pro worker" bullshit is ingrained in everyone's head. Therefore whatever results in higher wages is good, whatever reduces wages is bad. Just listen to Trump talk. That moronic windbag actually believes automating the ports is bad because jobs will be lost.

The situation for healthcare is pretty much hopeless.

 

[dmpi]

No, the problem is that they are all shielded from genuine competition.

Fifty years ago we had the same problem (but to a much smaller degree) with airlines. Then Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation in 1978. This is what happened to the price of flying:

View attachment 67546937

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen with healthcare today, because this "pro worker" bullshit is ingrained in everyone's head. Therefore whatever results in higher wages is good, whatever reduces wages is bad. Just listen to Trump talk. That moronic windbag actually believes automating the ports is bad because jobs will be lost.

The situation for healthcare is pretty much hopeless.

I see medical tourism as providing the competition needed to beat back domestic medical cost. It's already true. You can fly to Asia and get procedures done that will more than cover the airfare. The same is true in overseas drugs, but the drug companies here has convinced people that foreign drugs are counterfeit and are extremely dangerous.

 

[aociswundumho]

I see medical tourism as providing the competition needed to beat back domestic medical cost. It's already true. You can fly to Asia and get procedures done that will more than cover the airfare.

Yes, it does help, but it's so inconvenient for people. Plus your family and friends can't visit you.

I was thinking of some sort of giant medical cruise ship maybe 10 miles out, or whatever it takes to be free from US law.

 

[Maidenrules29]

This is what happened to the price of flying:

And what happened to the quality of air travel??

 

[btthegreat]

I no longer believe that the marketplace/capitalism can solve this problem. Lets just nationalize health care and insurance.

 

[Individual]

Slippery slope, but aside from the federal government telling healthcare companies how much they can pay upper management and higher, which we all know won't happen, I dont see how these companies can O.K. all procedures and still stay in business. Premiums would have to skyrocket and doctors and nurses would be paid less. Besides cutting upper management pay, does anyone have an idea how to improve clients getting approved for things now being denied?

Raise the cost.
Maybe someone in the insurance business might explain how it operates, where the money actually comes from to pay the claims as well as all other expenses, including wages, salaries.

 

[Individual]

If the goal is to provide healthcare to as many people as possible, then the primary focus should be on reducing the price of healthcare.

Reducing costs, IMO, would be the only way to accomplish that.

 

[Individual]

The problem is that no one wants to make less money. From the CEO's all the way down to medical equipment companies.

And the janitors.

 

[Individual]

Medi-Care for all.

Medicaid?

 

[Individual]

Could their plans work on a macro level? We have a much higher population and our citizens are in comparatively horrible health.

Would have to raise our income tax rates. Sweden I believe has a top rate of around 50%.

 

[Slartibartfast]

And the administrators of a national healthcare system would never deny procedures?

Depending on the system, between 4% and 9% reports a claims or procedure denial.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2021/new-international-study-us-health-system-ranks-last-among-11-countries-many#:~:text=This%20is%20more%20than%20four,in%20Germany%20and%20the%20U.K.

In the US, it’s about 36%.

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/11/nx-s1-5223483/examining-the-factors-that-play-into-the-high-rate-of-insurance-denials#:~:text=So%20I%20interviewed%201%2C340%20U.S.,higher%2Dlevel%20behavioral%20health%20care.

I think the expectation of never is a red herring. Things could certainly be improved.

 

[Individual]

I see medical tourism as providing the competition needed to beat back domestic medical cost. It's already true. You can fly to Asia and get procedures done that will more than cover the airfare. The same is true in overseas drugs, but the drug companies here has convinced people that foreign drugs are counterfeit and are extremely dangerous.

I used to buy some costly proscribed medicines for a co-worker when I vacationed each year in SEA. They were the same American produced and branded drugs he bought in the U.S. but much cheaper. I've heard the same can be done in Canada.

 

[PeteEU]

Slippery slope, but aside from the federal government telling healthcare companies how much they can pay upper management and higher, which we all know won't happen, I dont see how these companies can O.K. all procedures and still stay in business. Premiums would have to skyrocket and doctors and nurses would be paid less. Besides cutting upper management pay, does anyone have an idea how to improve clients getting approved for things now being denied?

Which is what the healthcare companies tell you... in reality it is false and an attempt to keep their scam going.

US healthcare is a bloated cartel of mess.

You have the highest administration costs of any healthcare system in the world.. between 15% to 30% of all costs.

You have the fewest doctors and nurses (compared to most other western systems)

And of course your healthcare system costs the most by a lot and does not give better life expectancy

So going UHC will save money and get better results overall... and of course cover everyone.

 

[Loulit01]

I see medical tourism as providing the competition needed to beat back domestic medical cost. It's already true. You can fly to Asia and get procedures done that will more than cover the airfare. The same is true in overseas drugs, but the drug companies here has convinced people that foreign drugs are counterfeit and are extremely dangerous.

Our tax dollars subsidize Big Pharma research for drugs that are cheaper in other countries. We have to go to Canada to afford the drugs we paid for.

 

[Ishm]

Could their plans work on a macro level? We have a much higher population and our citizens are in comparatively horrible health.

US healthcare pp costs twice as much as the OECD average, and achieves similar or worse medical outcomes on average. That leaves a heck of a lot of room to copy other countries while still saving an awful lot of money, if not maybe improving medical outcomes as well. There will be resistance from the privileged wealthy who can afford the best of American healthcare, which is very good. What that leaves for the average or below average earning Joe though is not always very good. Hence on average paying twice as much to achieve only average results. Why do so many other countries not need a massive layer of 'insurers' sucking money away from actual healthcare. How many extra $Billions could be spent on actual treatments etc if we weren't feeding the massively expensive insurance industry?

 

[holbritter]

Slippery slope, but aside from the federal government telling healthcare companies how much they can pay upper management and higher, which we all know won't happen, I dont see how these companies can O.K. all procedures and still stay in business. Premiums would have to skyrocket and doctors and nurses would be paid less. Besides cutting upper management pay, does anyone have an idea how to improve clients getting approved for things now being denied?

stop being a 'business'

 

[BirdinHand]

We need to do whatever it takes to get cost down. That means people actually shop price for medical treatments. That means none or very few goverment subsidies. That means no free ER for the homeless and poor. That means quit pandering to fake mental illnesses. That means addiction is a behavior problem, not a medical problem. You can see why this problem is unique to America.

So…let the poor die in the streets?

And don’t treat mental health.

What else do you think is a good idea?

 

[Peacenik]

Slippery slope, but aside from the federal government telling healthcare companies how much they can pay upper management and higher, which we all know won't happen, I dont see how these companies can O.K. all procedures and still stay in business. Premiums would have to skyrocket and doctors and nurses would be paid less. Besides cutting upper management pay, does anyone have an idea how to improve clients getting approved for things now being denied?

It demonstrates the reason we need government-run socialized universal healthcare.

A public system would be able to do what it could do, which is a lot. It would not be able to do everything for everybody and that should be understandable. If people wanted to have personal luxury health insurance beyond what the public system could do, that would have to be on them.

Luxury insurance might include a private room in the hospital where the public system would not guarantee that. Or experimental treatments.

If some new treatment got to be too expensive, the government should figure out how to do it for lower cost. Pay the inventor a one time fee to make it worth their while, then take over production.

Health care is something everyone needs. It is only logical that we do this on a group basis with the group being everyone in the USA. That will ensure we always get volume pricing, the lowest cost possible. Without the need for exorbitant corporate profits, that will keep the cost as low as possible.

Health care workers and doctors deserve to be well paid for what they do, according to their education and skill, but nobody should be making a killing off providing health care.

And we need to train far more doctors. It's not rocket science. No doubt there are far more people who could do this than our system graduates. We have an education system that has turned being a doctor into an elite. It doesn't have to be that way. It's just knowledge. AI can do a lot of it.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

We need to do whatever it takes to get cost down. That means people actually shop price for medical treatments. That means none or very few goverment subsidies. That means no free ER for the homeless and poor. That means quit pandering to fake mental illnesses. That means addiction is a behavior problem, not a medical problem. You can see why this problem is unique to America.

You have no ****ing idea what you are talking about. You can't "shop price for medical treatments." You've never done it. Thousands of regular, hard working decent people have become addicted to opioids through no fault of their own.

 

[Luce]

We need to do whatever it takes to get cost down. That means people actually shop price for medical treatments. That means none or very few goverment subsidies. That means no free ER for the homeless and poor. That means quit pandering to fake mental illnesses. That means addiction is a behavior problem, not a medical problem. You can see why this problem is unique to America.

Sounds monstrous, but okay.

 

[Pyrite]

We need to do whatever it takes to get cost down. That means people actually shop price for medical treatments. That means none or very few goverment subsidies. That means no free ER for the homeless and poor. That means quit pandering to fake mental illnesses. That means addiction is a behavior problem, not a medical problem. You can see why this problem is unique to America.

I can "see" that you have no problem with the USA's devolving into one of trump's shithole countries.