• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Has everyone here turned into a neocon warmonger?

The main (WWF; SuperpowerBowl prequel) event of the past two weeks seems to have turned nearly everyone posting at DP into a neocon warmonger (yes, that's a bit redundant). Get some blood (and whatever else) flowing to your frontal lobe, or they're going to become vestigial (yes, the internet helped me come up with that fancy word).

Maybe it's just that this website attracts and feeds binary Americanism, especially binary "left-right," liberal-conservative," Democratic-Republican, Biden-T**** (lack of =>) thinking binary logic.

I can't think of a single intelligent issue that's being pushed forward with this "MUST STOP PUTIN" mantra. *** Obvious (<= to me) disclaimer: Of course the attack on Ukraine needs to be stopped. ***

That leads to the next thing: The discussions about Ukraine should take the longer perspective, not the Tweets-posting /slash/ throbbing amygdalas (<= good post-punk band name; I got dibs) perspective. Geopolitics doesn't operate within one- nor two-week timescales. Neither does environmentalism, nor any of the laundry list of social issues that the reactionary-war mindset is currently violating or set to violate. Do I have to make lists of these issues? I'm thinking I'll I have to. Try to stay tuned for OP part 2 (if needed), dopamine fiends.

I apologize if this comment comes off as too cornball (synonym I chose over cutesy).
To answer the question in your title, don't be silly.

Trump hasn't become either a neocon or a warmonger. He remains the most militarily reluctant President in at least a generation, maybe two. That does not mean he won't make fun of both sides.

Actual neocons, like Liz Cheney, do not appear to be warmongers either. In any event, they are few and far between.
 
To answer the question in your title, don't be silly.

Trump hasn't become either a neocon or a warmonger. He remains the most militarily reluctant President in at least a generation, maybe two. That does not mean he won't make fun of both sides.

Actual neocons, like Liz Cheney, do not appear to be warmongers either. In any event, they are few and far between.

T****? Is he on DP?
 
#50 knows that I don't acknowledge his trolling by quoting it.

My idea for an international justice system? The first one was established in 1920; the second in 1945. Hmmm, I wonder why those years are important. Maybe some people would prefer to not have world wars? Those "pure fantasy" people- gosh, I swear.
 
Trump is the perfect President for someone who goes by Antiwar. Always has been.

Please try to have some respect.
 
....To allow horrible abuses of a civilian population because we fear...whatever, is intolerable for most people with the slightest bit of a conscience.
What to do to stop some of the worst humanitarian abuses in history?

The ideal scenario is having a fair and widely-agreed on set of laws enforceable by an unbiased 'police' force. Probably the second best opportunity to create something like that were the decisions made during and immediately following WW2 about the forthcoming international order, negotiations in which the United States had the greatest say and success in implementing its ideas: But instead of an unbiased police force (eg. democratic international coalitions), America proposed four nationalist police states which later morphed into the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. Far from ensuring world peace and preventing humanitarian abuses, this power has (rather predictably) made those countries the world's biggest makers and sellers of arms, with the unilateral power to veto any resolution which might get in the way of business or their own ambitions. Probably the best opportunity to fix that disaster came in the 1990s and 2000s after four decades of Cold War and nuclear buildup: Now the world's only real superpower and knowing the threat of global extinction and all the Cold War horrors committed by both sides under the current 'order,' the United States now held even greater opportunity to fix that disastrous 'balance of terror' model. What did we see instead? Scarcely a decade after the fall of the Soviet Union the USA decided it was time to really flex its muscles with a wildly illegal invasion of a sovereign nation on the opposite side of the world under the laughable pretext of 'defense,' followed less than two years later by - amazingly - an even more egregious invasion of yet another country! Rather than promoting democracy and justice internationally, the United States of America along with its allies such as the United Kingdom and Australia chose to not only maintain but dramatically underscore a brazen might-makes-right world order.

It seems we're not gonna get a fair and unbiased police force to keep world peace, thanks largely to America. What's the next best option?

The next best option is to try non-violent/de-escalation means of reining in rogue states, most obviously economic sanctions. That doesn't seem to be working against Russia, so far at least, perhaps in large part because Russia's oil and gas exports have scarcely been touched. By a curious irony, it's the United States which arguably bears primary responsibility for perpetuating the global dependency on fossil fuels by essentially scuppering the Kyoto Protocol in 1997; in more than three decades since the first report of the IPCC, greenhouse gas emissions and dependency on fossil fuels have only continued to increase in almost every single year.

We can still hope that sanctions and Ukrainian resistance will eventually wear out the patience of Russia's oligarchs and intelligence/military communities. But what's plan C? Seems pretty obvious that it should be proportionate/non-escalating use of force. Direct, defensive military support for Ukraine from other European countries should be under discussion as a contingency, but not France and the UK and sure as hell not the USA! During forty years of the Cold War the Soviet Union and America managed to avoid direct engagement with each other, and for damn good reason, but it seems suddenly far too many people have forgotten what that reason was. Conflict between nuclear powers is quite simply and obviously a bloody stupid idea. It would be a dumb idea even in the best of circumstances; but when we're talking about one of the world's biggest bullies coming along pretending to be a policeman to save Ukraine from a slightly smaller bully following in the bigger bully's footsteps, it's sheer -ing idiocy!

Finally, and even more optimistically, let's return to point number one; let's get back to pushing for democratization of the United Nations and nuclear de-escalation starting with the USA and Russia. It may be too late now that it would more heavily depend on the co-operation of the rising superpower China which is starting to enjoy flexing its own muscles, and an increasingly antagonistic Russia. We may well be stuck with the might-makes-right world order which we chose to maintain and dramatically underscore, in a world where we aren't quite as mighty any more. But we still have to try: Anyone who refuses to do so, who upholds the current UN model or, even worse, American militarism as an acceptable status quo for humanity has no business whatsoever complaining about the inevitable abuses and wars it perpetuates.
 
Last edited:
The main (WWF; SuperpowerBowl prequel) event of the past two weeks seems to have turned nearly everyone posting at DP into a neocon warmonger (yes, that's a bit redundant). Get some blood (and whatever else) flowing to your frontal lobe, or they're going to become vestigial (yes, the internet helped me come up with that fancy word).

Maybe it's just that this website attracts and feeds binary Americanism, especially binary "left-right," liberal-conservative," Democratic-Republican, Biden-T**** (lack of =>) thinking binary logic.

I can't think of a single intelligent issue that's being pushed forward with this "MUST STOP PUTIN" mantra. *** Obvious (<= to me) disclaimer: Of course the attack on Ukraine needs to be stopped. ***

That leads to the next thing: The discussions about Ukraine should take the longer perspective, not the Tweets-posting /slash/ throbbing amygdalas (<= good post-punk band name; I got dibs) perspective. Geopolitics doesn't operate within one- nor two-week timescales. Neither does environmentalism, nor any of the laundry list of social issues that the reactionary-war mindset is currently violating or set to violate. Do I have to make lists of these issues? I'm thinking I'll I have to. Try to stay tuned for OP part 2 (if needed), dopamine fiends.

I apologize if this comment comes off as too cornball (synonym I chose over cutesy).
Is NATO and so the US threatened?
 
The main (WWF; SuperpowerBowl prequel) event of the past two weeks seems to have turned nearly everyone posting at DP into a neocon warmonger (yes, that's a bit redundant). Get some blood (and whatever else) flowing to your frontal lobe, or they're going to become vestigial (yes, the internet helped me come up with that fancy word).

Maybe it's just that this website attracts and feeds binary Americanism, especially binary "left-right," liberal-conservative," Democratic-Republican, Biden-T**** (lack of =>) thinking binary logic.

I can't think of a single intelligent issue that's being pushed forward with this "MUST STOP PUTIN" mantra. *** Obvious (<= to me) disclaimer: Of course the attack on Ukraine needs to be stopped. ***

That leads to the next thing: The discussions about Ukraine should take the longer perspective, not the Tweets-posting /slash/ throbbing amygdalas (<= good post-punk band name; I got dibs) perspective. Geopolitics doesn't operate within one- nor two-week timescales. Neither does environmentalism, nor any of the laundry list of social issues that the reactionary-war mindset is currently violating or set to violate. Do I have to make lists of these issues? I'm thinking I'll I have to. Try to stay tuned for OP part 2 (if needed), dopamine fiends.

I apologize if this comment comes off as too cornball (synonym I chose over cutesy).

I'm definitely not one of them.

I don't like what Putin is doing, but the biggest threat to this country is the Republican Traitor Party. Jan 6 proved that.
 
Is NATO and so the US threatened?

I think that's n overly simplistic question. China's government is a huge global threat, but that doesn't mean the US or NATO are in immediate specific danger of much. Defining how Putin's atrocities attacking Ukraine threaten the US and NATO isn't simple.
 
I think that's n overly simplistic question. China's government is a huge global threat, but that doesn't mean the US or NATO are in immediate specific danger of much. Defining how Putin's atrocities attacking Ukraine threaten the US and NATO isn't simple.
It is not simple but if we are weak we will lose. This conflict with Russia shows that. It is time we realize world politics is the real politiks and our infighting is not so important.
 
It is not simple but if we are weak we will lose. This conflict with Russia shows that. It is time we realize world politics is the real politiks and our infighting is not so important.
It's time we realize what few are talking about, that nuclear weapons are inherently tyrannical. They're defeating our laws, our culture, our politics, our diplomacy, our protections of the innocent. Without nuclear weapons this war would not have happened.
 
It's time we realize what few are talking about, that nuclear weapons are inherently tyrannical. They're defeating our culture, our politics, our diplomacy, our protections of the innocent. Without nuclear weapons this war would not have happened.
So what do you suggest? We are where we are and we must work from here.
 
So what do you suggest? We are where we are and we must work from here.
I suggest we work with the nuclear scientists and regulatory authority to establish a permanent global program to confirm no nuclear weapons are developed, and the political agreements to operate it and eliminate all current weapons. The UN should adopt a rule that any development of weapons at that point will result in the world using force to disrupt it, without any veto.
 
It's time we realize what few are talking about, that nuclear weapons are inherently tyrannical. They're defeating our laws, our culture, our politics, our diplomacy, our protections of the innocent. Without nuclear weapons this war would not have happened.

It can also be argued that nuclear weapons have prevented war. -- mutually assured destruction

Without nuclear weapons, the U.S. and the Soviet Union probably would have fought each other in at least one armed conflict during the 45 years of the Cold War.
 
I suggest we work with the nuclear scientists and regulatory authority to establish a permanent global program to confirm no nuclear weapons are developed, and the political agreements to operate it and eliminate all current weapons.
Yes. We will get Putin, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel, China, etc. to agree. We must be strong and a deterrent. And disarm through arms or diplomacy as we can.
 
It can also be argued that nuclear weapons have prevented war. -- mutually assured destruction

Without nuclear weapons, the U.S. and the Soviet Union probably would have fought each other in at least one armed conflict during the 45 years of the Cold War.
It's a pretty painful situation. We'll only know whether or not the nukes were worth it when they're used and it turns out they weren't. However the USA and Russia certainly should scale down their arsenals to match the other nuclear powers, and ultimately lead the way in implementing a global limit of a hundred or fewer warheads each.
 
Many people observing what is happening in Ukraine find themselves, to whatever extent they can, putting themselves, psychologically speaking, into the shoes of the Ukrainians. They see the death and destruction Putin has caused. They see Russia shooting up the homes people live in and attacking routes out of the country, making fleeing women and children struggle even harder to escape. Some people see that kind of thing and think, "Enough! Somebody needs to help!"

Others look at all that and think, "**** that. Not my problem. Why should I get involved? I'm in the world for me and me only."

But....you are posting here on DP and not busy traveling to Ukraine to help them?

What gives? It would appear that you lack the courage of your convictions? Maybe you're in the world for you and you only? :unsure:
 
Yes. We will get Putin, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel, China, etc. to agree. We must be strong and a deterrent. And disarm through arms or diplomacy as we can.
Most of the world is pretty ready to do it, and I suspect the rest can be persuaded. For example, I think India and Pakistan have them mostly because the other does.
 
Please try to have some respect.
I'm being straight with you.

Never mind the obnoxious package because Trump was as antiwar as an American president can get. That's just reality.

He was also much better at defusing situations than Biden.
 
I'm being straight with you.

Never mind the obnoxious package because Trump was as antiwar as an American president can get. That's just reality.

He was also much better at defusing situations than Biden.

The closest we've come to having an anti-war president is Carter.
 
Most of the world is pretty ready to do it, and I suspect the rest can be persuaded. For example, I think India and Pakistan have them mostly because the other does.
Sorry. That is not even remotely realistic. It disturbs me that you think it is. How old are you?
 
Back
Top Bottom