Has everyone here turned into a neocon warmonger?

[Phys251]

The main (WWF; SuperpowerBowl prequel) event of the past two weeks seems to have turned nearly everyone posting at DP into a neocon warmonger (yes, that's a bit redundant). Get some blood (and whatever else) flowing to your frontal lobe, or they're going to become vestigial (yes, the internet helped me come up with that fancy word).

Maybe it's just that this website attracts and feeds binary Americanism, especially binary "left-right," liberal-conservative," Democratic-Republican, Biden-T**** (lack of =>) thinking binary logic.

I can't think of a single intelligent issue that's being pushed forward with this "MUST STOP PUTIN" mantra. *** Obvious (<= to me) disclaimer: Of course the attack on Ukraine needs to be stopped. ***

That leads to the next thing: The discussions about Ukraine should take the longer perspective, not the Tweets-posting /slash/ throbbing amygdalas (<= good post-punk band name; I got dibs) perspective. Geopolitics doesn't operate within one- nor two-week timescales. Neither does environmentalism, nor any of the laundry list of social issues that the reactionary-war mindset is currently violating or set to violate. Do I have to make lists of these issues? I'm thinking I'll I have to. Try to stay tuned for OP part 2 (if needed), dopamine fiends.

I apologize if this comment comes off as too cornball (synonym I chose over cutesy).

Does Ukraine have the right to defend itself or not?

 

[Warcok]

You probably would have said the same about WW2 and advocated letting the Nazis win.

The Nazis didn't bomb Pearl Harbor

 

[Questerr]

The Nazis didn't bomb Pearl Harbor

So you would have done nothing about the Nazis and only fought the Japanese? Given you support cutting off NATO from US support entirely, would you have supported Lend Lease?

 

[Lutherf]

The Nazis didn't bomb Pearl Harbor

Are you at all aware of the atrocities the Japanese committed across the pacific and in China specifically before the war? We Americans sat back and watched all that crap happen too without doing anything until Pear Harbor.

 

[Antiwar]

Does Ukraine have the right to defend itself or not?

Of course. But modern society should be able to handle problems like this with preventative measures.

If/then less-lethal and Earth-destroying measures should be used to stop them.

And a strong effective international justice system needs to be active and proactive, not blocked.

Humanity HAS TO get out of several overlapping paradigms, with militarism and fossil fuels burning being the top two that go hand-in-hand.

 

[Questerr]

Of course. But modern society should be able to handle problems like this with preventative measures.

If/then less-lethal and Earth-destroying measures should be used to stop them.

And a strong effective international justice system needs to be active and proactive, not blocked.

Humanity HAS TO get out of several overlapping paradigms, with militarism and fossil fuels burning being the top two that go hand-in-hand.

Explain how this would actually function in practical reality. How could Putin have been preempted?

Do international cops land in Moscow to arrest him and just expect a de facto dictator to just give himself up?

 

[Phys251]

Of course.

Really? Cause you seem pretty adamant against all fighting, even for defense.

But modern society should be able to handle problems like this with preventative measures.

Preventative measures? Such as what? An alliance, perhaps?

If/then less-lethal and Earth-destroying measures should be used to stop them.

See above.

And a strong effective international justice system needs to be active and proactive, not blocked.

Humanity HAS TO get out of several overlapping paradigms, with militarism and fossil fuels burning being the top two that go hand-in-hand.

Should Putin be stopped or allowed to become the next militaristic conqueror?

 

[Warcok]

Are you at all aware of the atrocities the Japanese committed across the pacific and in China specifically before the war? We Americans sat back and watched all that crap happen too without doing anything until Pear Harbor.

Yes because now China is our biggest adversary.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The Nazis didn't bomb Pearl Harbor

WW2 history 101;
Germany declared war against the United States, first.

Germany declares war on the United States | December 11, 1941 | HISTORY

Adolf Hitler declares war on the United States, bringing America, which had been neutral, into the European conflict. The bombing of Pearl Harbor surprised even Germany. Although Hitler had made an oral agreement with his Axis partner Japan that Germany would join a war against the United...

www.history.com

Would you have suggested we not reciprocate?

 

[phoenix2020]

I could, but that would very likely lead to an internet 'shooting at an abandoned car with Putin's face on it' event. In other words, you just want me to post something so y'all can scream 'NUT UH!" "Not going to do it; wouldn't be prudent."

Got it. It's easy to critique everybody else's point of view while refusing to offer one of your own.

 

[Lutherf]

Yes because now China is our biggest adversary.

Why does this need to be explained to you? Where is the disconnect?

Throughout history we Americans have sat on out laurels and made it a point to stay out of various conflicts even when we see the horrors inflicted by despots. We have too often stayed out of the conflict until after the abuses can no longer be ignored and by then it was too late so stop some of the worst humanitarian abuses in history. Yet, knowing all that, you and others STILL suggest we ignore everything that's happening. That isn't a humanitarian response. It's the opposite. To allow horrible abuses of a civilian population because we fear...whatever, is intolerable for most people with the slightest bit of a conscience.

 

[Lutherf]

WW2 history 101;
Germany declared war against the United States, first.

Germany declares war on the United States | December 11, 1941 | HISTORY

Adolf Hitler declares war on the United States, bringing America, which had been neutral, into the European conflict. The bombing of Pearl Harbor surprised even Germany. Although Hitler had made an oral agreement with his Axis partner Japan that Germany would join a war against the United...

www.history.com

Would you have suggested we not reciprocate?

We should have just let the Nazis go, apparently. As far as some people seem to be concerned, they weren't all that bad as compared to the risk of American lives.

 

[Warcok]

Why does this need to be explained to you? Where is the disconnect?

Throughout history we Americans have sat on out laurels and made it a point to stay out of various conflicts even when we see the horrors inflicted by despots. We have too often stayed out of the conflict until after the abuses can no longer be ignored and by then it was too late so stop some of the worst humanitarian abuses in history. Yet, knowing all that, you and others STILL suggest we ignore everything that's happening. That isn't a humanitarian response. It's the opposite. To allow horrible abuses of a civilian population because we fear...whatever, is intolerable for most people with the slightest bit of a conscience.

Worked for Sweden

 

[Antiwar]

Why does this need to be explained to you? Where is the disconnect?

Throughout history we Americans have sat on out laurels and made it a point to stay out of various conflicts even when we see the horrors inflicted by despots. We have too often stayed out of the conflict until after the abuses can no longer be ignored and by then it was too late so stop some of the worst humanitarian abuses in history. Yet, knowing all that, you and others STILL suggest we ignore everything that's happening. That isn't a humanitarian response. It's the opposite. To allow horrible abuses of a civilian population because we fear...whatever, is intolerable for most people with the slightest bit of a conscience.

I'm not onboard with you on probably anything else, and you're probably wanting US to keep pushing the neoliberal and militaristic paradigms, but you're making some good points in the above comment.

 

[Questerr]

I'm not onboard with you on probably anything else, and you're probably wanting US to keep pushing the neoliberal and militaristic paradigms, but you're making some good points in the above comment.

You realize that poster would have had the US sit by and do nothing (not even Lend Lease to Britain and Russia) to stop the Nazis, right? He wants us to be like Sweden, a country that actively traded with and aided the Nazis.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

We should have just let the Nazis go, apparently. As far as some people seem to be concerned, they weren't all that bad as compared to the risk of American lives.

Those people are short sighted, nationalist/isolationist fools.

 

[CaughtInThe]

It's really easy to be against violence until somebody punches you in the mouth or murders your wife.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Nationalism ftw!

That only a small minority of Americans share your perspective objectively proves you wrong.

 

[Warcok]

That only a small minority of Americans share your perspective objectively proves you wrong.

So you don't root for America during the Olympic games? Sad!

 

[HangLow]

The main (WWF; SuperpowerBowl prequel) event of the past two weeks seems to have turned nearly everyone posting at DP into a neocon warmonger (yes, that's a bit redundant). Get some blood (and whatever else) flowing to your frontal lobe, or they're going to become vestigial (yes, the internet helped me come up with that fancy word). Maybe it's just that this website attracts and feeds binary Americanism, especially binary "left-right," liberal-conservative," Democratic-Republican, Biden-T**** (lack of =>) thinking binary logic. I can't think of a single intelligent issue that's being pushed forward with this "MUST STOP PUTIN" mantra. *** Obvious (<= to me) disclaimer: Of course the attack on Ukraine needs to be stopped. *** That leads to the next thing: The discussions about Ukraine should take the longer perspective, not the Tweets-posting /slash/ throbbing amygdalas (<= good post-punk band name; I got dibs) perspective. Geopolitics doesn't operate within one- nor two-week timescales. Neither does environmentalism, nor any of the laundry list of social issues that the reactionary-war mindset is currently violating or set to violate. Do I have to make lists of these issues? I'm thinking I'll I have to. Try to stay tuned for OP part 2 (if needed), dopamine fiends. I apologize if this comment comes off as too cornball (synonym I chose over cutesy).

Kool... I can't wait for Part 2... KOOL...
-Peace

​

 

[Antiwar]

#31 really dislikes international justice systems, diplomacy, and a bunch of progressive principles. Does anyone know why they consider themself to be left-libertarian?

 

[craig]

There is almost no way to have a long discussion on any world events in this forum. And that is no knock against the admins, it's just next to impossible to put down in a paragraph all the pertinent details i.e. history, socioeconomic data political party division etc etc that encompass what is happening. Entire books are written about socio-political events so the idea of succinctly capturing everything needed to have a long intelligent discussion here is an impossible task. What you can do here is drop an opinion, sometimes based on facts, sometimes not, and see which way the discussion goes. From my short experience here there are plenty of smart people, but there are plenty of people that only want to be heard. And that's not just an opinion....

You don't put down in paragraphs. You expect they know history and current events. And then you make your argument in that context.

 

[jnug]

Many people observing what is happening in Ukraine find themselves, to whatever extent they can, putting themselves, psychologically speaking, into the shoes of the Ukrainians. They see the death and destruction Putin has caused. They see Russia shooting up the homes people live in and attacking routes out of the country, making fleeing women and children struggle even harder to escape. Some people see that kind of thing and think, "Enough! Somebody needs to help!"

Others look at all that and think, "**** that. Not my problem. Why should I get involved? I'm in the world for me and me only."

Talk about a black and white perspective. Geezuz Christ...talk about a binary thought process.

 

[Mithrae]

You realize that poster would have had the US sit by and do nothing (not even Lend Lease to Britain and Russia) to stop the Nazis, right? He wants us to be like Sweden, a country that actively traded with and aided the Nazis.

You're thinking of @Warcok , not @Lutherf

 

[Questerr]

#31 really dislikes international justice systems, diplomacy, and a bunch of progressive principles. Does anyone know why they consider themself to be left-libertarian?

I love that you are terrified of quoting me. Such a brave Progressive you are.

Your international justice system idea is pure fantasy. Multiple posters have explained to you in detail why it won’t work. It would just revolve back into war anytime a dictator refuses its rulings.