Has any Conspiracy Theory ever turned out to be True? [W:499]

[Quag]

There is a lot of propaganda out there. Blowing smoke up America's ass is pretty common. Not sure why you anti-CT'ers are so gung ho to ridicule anyone pointing that out.

Because this particular poster claims to be a "flight instructor" after demonstrating he has no knowledge of aviation, believes there were non exploding non radioactive mini nuclear bombs and generally claims everyone else suffers from cognitive dissonance when they point out all his evidence is made up, out right lies, taken out of context or just doesn't mean what he claims.
All his Cts (there are several mutually exclusive ones he adheres to) all come from CT sites bought by him hook line and sinker without any attempt to verify their claims or even think about what they are claiming.

 

[calamity]

Because this particular poster claims to be a "flight instructor" after demonstrating he has no knowledge of aviation, believes there were non exploding non radioactive mini nuclear bombs and generally claims everyone else suffers from cognitive dissonance when they point out all his evidence is made up, out right lies, taken out of context or just doesn't mean what he claims.
All his Cts (there are several mutually exclusive ones he adheres to) all come from CT sites bought by him hook line and sinker without any attempt to verify their claims or even think about what they are claiming.

Well, a lot of CT is also smoke being blown up America's butt.

We have to have the most gullible population on the planet. It makes sense, too. After all, we are all raised on TV commercials pumping smoke up our ass from basically the first day we learned to understand English.

 

[Mark F]

I just want to make sure he approves of the material Mark. He is new here and I'm trying to get to know him.

I call bull feces. Stop stalling and just submit an answer to the detailed and clearly laid out OP already. If there is a bone of contention it can be cleared up then.

 

[Quag]

Well, a lot of CT is also smoke being blown up America's butt.

We have to have the most gullible population on the planet. It makes sense, too. After all, we are all raised on TV commercials pumping smoke up our ass from basically the first day we learned to understand English.

I do not think America even comes close to the most gullible population on the planet. I suppose you could make an argument for least informed of 1st world countries.

 

[zyzygy]

There is a lot of propaganda out there. Blowing smoke up America's ass is pretty common. Not sure why you anti-CT'ers are so gung ho to ridicule anyone pointing that out.

Coming up with some proof of their CT allegations would help their case.

 

[zyzygy]

Yeah the ones he hasn't heard of yet.

The CIA controls gravity.

 

[Quag]

Coming up with some proof of their CT allegations would help their case.

Forget proof some actual evidence would be nice.
All we get is stuff taken out of context or outright lies.

 

[Quag]

The CIA controls gravity.

And I thought it was the FBI

 

[jimithyashford]

I am referring to the assassination of MLK. Do you think a conspiracy was involved, and if so, by whom. I'm trying to move forward on the thread topic, has any conspiracy theory turned out to be true?

ok, we are done. have a nice life.

Let the record show, there has still been no proven true conspiracy theory presented in response to my challenge.

 

[Thoreau72]

ok, we are done. have a nice life.

Let the record show, there has still been no proven true conspiracy theory presented in response to my challenge.

Thank you. The record shows that you the OP are not willing to engage in discussion regarding the CT associated with MLK assassination.

You are a bit of a fraud, asking a question and then being so selective about what you will ACTUALLY discuss.

You like to bluff, it appears.

 

[Quag]

Thank you. The record shows that you the OP are not willing to engage in discussion regarding the CT associated with MLK assassination.

You are a bit of a fraud, asking a question and then being so selective about what you will ACTUALLY discuss.

You like to bluff, it appears.

:lamo
Hd once again shows us that he is not living in the real world

 

[Mark F]

Thank you. The record shows that you the OP are not willing to engage in discussion regarding the CT associated with MLK assassination.

You are a bit of a fraud, asking a question and then being so selective about what you will ACTUALLY discuss.

You like to bluff, it appears.

The OP asks a specific question. You can either answer that question or you can go find something else to do. At no time does the OP ask for a discussion about MLK or any other topic - so quit jerking everyone around with your strawman BS just because you need attention.

 

[jimithyashford]

Thank you. The record shows that you the OP are not willing to engage in discussion regarding the CT associated with MLK assassination.

You are a bit of a fraud, asking a question and then being so selective about what you will ACTUALLY discuss.

You like to bluff, it appears.

I refuse to engage in a conversation where you ask me to answer to the question that I asked you. That's just.....stupid. if I had an answer I wouldn't have asked you in the first place would I have?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, although it seems your reputation precedes you, so that might be foolish in this case. However if you would like to take one more attempt, I will entertain such an effort, would you like to provide what you believe, that doesn't mean ask me what I believe, but provide me with what you believe to be an adequate answer to the challenge presented clearly in my original post? If you would like to do that, then be my guest, go ahead. However if your next reply is anything other than a clear concise and direct communication of an answer to my original question then I will cease communication with you.

People on this thread assured me that it would be virtually impossible to get a clear direct and Cooperative answer out of you, you seem to be proving them right, I would like to give you an opportunity to prove them wrong.

 

[jimithyashford]

There is a lot of propaganda out there. Blowing smoke up America's ass is pretty common. Not sure why you anti-CT'ers are so gung ho to ridicule anyone pointing that out.

Hi there, sorry, I got so busy beating my head against the wall but that other guy and I ignored this post and forgot to reply. To answer your question my problem with the conspiratorial mindset is that conspiracy theories turn out to be, as far as I can tell, always wrong. I have a big problem with any approach the truth that has a pretty much 100% failure rate. Thus this post, where I'm asking if anybody can present me with a conspiracy theory, any conspiracy theory at all, that has actually turned out to be right.

I would think any reasonable person, yourself included, would not be a particularly big fan of a mindset that is so often wrong.

 

[calamity]

Hi there, sorry, I got so busy beating my head against the wall but that other guy and I ignored this post and forgot to reply. To answer your question my problem with the conspiratorial mindset is that conspiracy theories turn out to be, as far as I can tell, always wrong. I have a big problem with any approach the truth that has a pretty much 100% failure rate. Thus this post, where I'm asking if anybody can present me with a conspiracy theory, any conspiracy theory at all, that has actually turned out to be right.

I would think any reasonable person, yourself included, would not be a particularly big fan of a mindset that is so often wrong.

I see CT in a slightly different light, but not entirely. Although, I agree completely that CT is almost always 100% off the mark, they do serve a purpose. They open up dialogue with the effect of exposing cracks in the official story, stories that inevitably do turn out to be rife with false narrative.

Take 911. Was it a false flag operation? Clearly not. But was it an attack on the US by "evil" people who simply "hate our freedoms"? Hardly. No, the truth of the matter is we were caught up in a Saudi power struggle. The attack was mostly aimed at the center of the petro dollar, the crutch which props up the corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia. Of course, this is not mentioned by either the CT nuts or the official players in the major media or the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film)

...outlines the US's alliance with Saudi Arabia, especially the former's agreement to buy Saudi oil, for control of a key energy supplier during the cold-war era, with Saudi Arabia gaining wealth and security in return, with agreement withstanding provided it was allowed to continue its violent and fundamentalist interpretation of Islam, Wahhabism, uninhibited from external influence. This in turn has fed like a feedback loop back into the many troubles the world faces with regards to various militant Islamic forces spanning the 1970s to present day; be they the Mujahideen, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and into IS.

 

[jimithyashford]

I see CT in a slightly different light, but not entirely. Although, I agree completely that CT is almost always 100% off the mark, they do serve a purpose. They open up dialogue with the effect of exposing cracks in the official story, stories that inevitably do turn out to be rife with false narrative.

Take 911. Was it a false flag operation? Clearly not. But was it an attack on the US by "evil" people who simply "hate our freedoms"? Hardly. No, the truth of the matter is we were caught up in a Saudi power struggle. The attack was mostly aimed at the center of the petro dollar, the crutch which props up the corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia. Of course, this is not mentioned by either the CT nuts or the official players in the major media or the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film)

You think that the complexity and Nuance that lay behind the 9-11 attacks was brought to the general Public's knowledge by 9/11 truthers?

Certainly the nationalistic overly simplified narrative is well, nationalistic, and overly simplified, and there is a lot more nuance and subtlety and Truth there, but I don't recall any of that being exposed to buy propagated by or informed by conspiratorial conversations.

Most of my education on those topics came from listening to debates between religious and political Scholars.

 

[jimithyashford]

I see CT in a slightly different light, but not entirely. Although, I agree completely that CT is almost always 100% off the mark, they do serve a purpose. They open up dialogue with the effect of exposing cracks in the official story, stories that inevitably do turn out to be rife with false narrative.

Take 911. Was it a false flag operation? Clearly not. But was it an attack on the US by "evil" people who simply "hate our freedoms"? Hardly. No, the truth of the matter is we were caught up in a Saudi power struggle. The attack was mostly aimed at the center of the petro dollar, the crutch which props up the corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia. Of course, this is not mentioned by either the CT nuts or the official players in the major media or the government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film)

You think that the complexity and Nuance that lay behind the 9-11 attacks was brought to the general Public's knowledge by 9/11 truthers?

Certainly the nationalistic overly simplified narrative is well, nationalistic, and overly simplified, and there is a lot more nuance and subtlety and Truth there, but I don't recall any of that being exposed by or propagated by or informed by conspiratorial conversations.

Most of my education on those topics came from listening to debates between religious and political Scholars.

In fact, one might argue, that 9/11 truther types only made things worse by perpetuating The Narrative that large calamitous events are the responsibility of big cackling Shady evil villain type figures, which is 99% of the time not the truth.

Real History, true events, very rarely furnish us with maniacal villains or secret Boards of shadowy figures Masterminding nefarious events.

 

[Mark F]

People on this thread assured me that it would be virtually impossible to get a clear direct and Cooperative answer out of you, you seem to be proving them right, I would like to give you an opportunity to prove them wrong.

I for one would love to be proven wrong. Nothing would thrill me more at this point.

But its not gonna happen.

 

[calamity]

You think that the complexity and Nuance that lay behind the 9-11 attacks was brought to the general Public's knowledge by 9/11 truthers?

Certainly the nationalistic overly simplified narrative is well, nationalistic, and overly simplified, and there is a lot more nuance and subtlety and Truth there, but I don't recall any of that being exposed by or propagated by or informed by conspiratorial conversations.

Most of my education on those topics came from listening to debates between religious and political Scholars.

In fact, one might argue, that 9/11 truther types only made things worse by perpetuating The Narrative that large calamitous events are the responsibility of big cackling Shady evil villain type figures, which is 99% of the time not the truth.

Real History, true events, very rarely furnish us with maniacal villains or secret Boards of shadowy figures Masterminding nefarious events.

Of course that stuff is nonsense. But, there is just enough truth in those nefarious events led by powerful masterminds to expose things like the Bitter Lake agreement, at least for those curious enough to dig.

Take the grand scheme of the "Illuminati." We all know there is plenty of truth beneath that crazy claim. Banks and corporations really do have a lot of power. Bankers, like Prescott Bush, did play both sides in the beginning of WW2. American businessmen, like Henry Ford, did support Hitler's rise to power. etc. So, it's not compete hogwash. Just a garbled mess taken many steps too far, painting a clear solution where none exists. But, if one digs. there are many gems in there which do not see the light of day in the standard History Books.

 

[Mark F]

You think that the complexity and Nuance that lay behind the 9-11 attacks was brought to the general Public's knowledge by 9/11 truthers?

Certainly the nationalistic overly simplified narrative is well, nationalistic, and overly simplified, and there is a lot more nuance and subtlety and Truth there, but I don't recall any of that being exposed to buy propagated by or informed by conspiratorial conversations.

Most of my education on those topics came from listening to debates between religious and political Scholars.

In the specific case of 9/11, the so-called Truthers did a bang-up job helping to hide the Saudi links to 9/11 by blaming everyone except the Saudis and the terrorists the Saudis supported. They blamed Mossad (or just da Joos in general), the NWO, Bush/Cheney, Wall Street traders, Larry Silverstein (conveniently Jewish), FEMA, NIST, FDNY, CIA, PNAC, etc,... All that noise made it nearly impossible to even discuss the real issue of possible Saudi involvement even though the broad outlines were already well known even before last weeks release of the mythical "28 redacted pages".

Good job inhibiting progress Truthers. Your parents must be very proud.

 

[jimithyashford]

Of course that stuff is nonsense. But, there is just enough truth in those nefarious events led by powerful masterminds to expose things like the Bitter Lake agreement, at least for those curious enough to dig.

Take the grand scheme of the "Illuminati." We all know there is plenty of truth beneath that crazy claim. Banks and corporations really do have a lot of power. Bankers, like Prescott Bush, did play both sides in the beginning of WW2. American businessmen, like Henry Ford, did support Hitler's rise to power. etc. So, it's not compete hogwash. Just a garbled mess taken many steps too far, painting a clear solution where none exists. But, if one digs. there are many gems in there which do not see the light of day in the standard History Books.

Well, being accepting of something that is mostly "just a garbled mess taken many steps too far" because it occasionally points in general direction in which, if you dig enough, you can kind find some truth....that seems like a pretty poor standard in this commentator's view.

On the other hand, CT thinking does spin massive amounts of paranoia, misinformation, and whip anti-authority unstable fringe figure into vitriolic and even occasionally violent fervor.

Seems like an awfully big liability for such a vanishingly small indirect and only occasional benefit.

And of course that's even if I really buy your point that CT thinking ever leads down fruitful paths. I really don't think it does. These "gems" you are referring to, probably were not uncovered, exposed, or even clarified by CTs or their proponents in any way whatsoever.

And as far as the Illuminati goes, I really can't agree with your statement, "Take the grand scheme of the "Illuminati." We all know there is plenty of truth beneath that crazy claim.".....

Do we know that? I certainly don't. I mean unless you are claiming that the "truth" behind Illuminati CTs is nothing for than the basic principle that "Powerful people often do shady things to increase their power or achieve their goals"....but that's hardly a revelation. I mean, that is like....a human universal. That has been true, and widely known to be true, since the earliest days of human recorded history. That is hardly some insight or wisdom that CT thinking has bestowed upon us.

The more I discuss this the more I am realizing that not only has no CT ever been, as far as I can tell, actually true, but it doesn't even give us any lessons, wisdom, or insight. It has like....no value that I can discern on any level, and does carry a number of very real liabilities both in misinformation and ****ing with the minds of impressionable people and people on the edge.

 

[calamity]

Well, being accepting of something that is mostly "just a garbled mess taken many steps too far" because it occasionally points in general direction in which, if you dig enough, you can kind find some truth....that seems like a pretty poor standard in this commentator's view.

On the other hand, CT thinking does spin massive amounts of paranoia, misinformation, and whip anti-authority unstable fringe figure into vitriolic and even occasionally violent fervor.

Seems like an awfully big liability for such a vanishingly small indirect and only occasional benefit.

And of course that's even if I really buy your point that CT thinking ever leads down fruitful paths. I really don't think it does. These "gems" you are referring to, probably were not uncovered, exposed, or even clarified by CTs or their proponents in any way whatsoever.

And as far as the Illuminati goes, I really can't agree with your statement, "Take the grand scheme of the "Illuminati." We all know there is plenty of truth beneath that crazy claim.".....

Do we know that? I certainly don't. I mean unless you are claiming that the "truth" behind Illuminati CTs is nothing for than the basic principle that "Powerful people often do shady things to increase their power or achieve their goals"....but that's hardly a revelation. I mean, that is like....a human universal. That has been true, and widely known to be true, since the earliest days of human recorded history. That is hardly some insight or wisdom that CT thinking has bestowed upon us.

The more I discuss this the more I am realizing that not only has no CT ever been, as far as I can tell, actually true, but it doesn't even give us any lessons, wisdom, or insight. It has like....no value that I can discern on any level, and does carry a number of very real liabilities both in misinformation and ****ing with the minds of impressionable people and people on the edge.

CT is the other side of the bull**** coin, to put it bluntly. They are themselves as mindless as "evil people who hate our freedoms." But they are its polar opposite.

Curious human minds are inspired by them to dig deeper. If only one side of the coin was presented, there would be no reason to question it. Yes, powerful people do shady things, including put out good cover stories for mass consumption. Without the CT, there would be no reason to question them.

The CT side of the equations just happen to be nutty enough to cast light on shadows otherwise ignored. Agent Orange, CIA smuggling drugs, assassination programs, torture and black sites, domestic spying, etc. have all been substantiated, although to a slightly lesser extent than was proposed by the CT. But, would those have been revealed without the CT spurring interest in them? I sort of doubt it.

 

[jimithyashford]

CT is the other side of the bull**** coin, to put it bluntly. They are themselves as mindless as "evil people who hate our freedoms." But they are its polar opposite.

Curious human minds are inspired by them to dig deeper. If only one side of the coin was presented, there would be no reason to question it. Yes, powerful people do shady things, including put out good cover stories for mass consumption. Without the CT, there would be no reason to question them.

The CT side of the equations just happen to be nutty enough to cast light on shadows otherwise ignored. Agent Orange, CIA smuggling drugs, assassination programs, torture and black sites, domestic spying, etc. have all been substantiated, although to a slightly lesser extent than was proposed by the CT. But, would those have been revealed without the CT spurring interest in them? I sort of doubt it.

Right, you keep saying that, but is that really the case? Has any CT ever actually sent some journalist or investigator down the path that lead to some revelation? Has the doubt and paranoia cast by CTs every even inspired efforts that resulted in a true story? I really don't know that it has ever happened.

 

[calamity]

Right, you keep saying that, but is that really the case? Has any CT ever actually sent some journalist or investigator down the path that lead to some revelation? Has the doubt and paranoia cast by CTs every even inspired efforts that resulted in a true story? I really don't know that it has ever happened.

It's not that simple. It's more a case of how just accepting the official story results in a lack of journalistic curiosity. We need the crack pot theories just as much as we need the official story. Read them both and try to figure out where exactly the truth lies.

I believe you are dismissing the positive effect CT has on opening eyes to other options. Would the whole "Prescott Bush collaborated with Nazis" even have come to light without all that Illuminati nonsense playing out? I sort of doubt it. Would we have learned that JFK was banging Marilyn Monroe without some gossip rag bringing it up back in the early 70's? Probably not. Both cases would have remained rumors buried deep in "no one cares land." It's the CT that brings stories out of the woodwork, even if they are half baked.

 

[jimithyashford]

It's not that simple. It's more a case of how just accepting the official story results in a lack of journalistic curiosity. We need the crack pot theories just as much as we need the official story. Read them both and try to figure out where exactly the truth lies.

I believe you are dismissing the positive effect CT has on opening eyes to other options. Would the whole "Prescott Bush collaborated with Nazis" even have come to light without all that Illuminati nonsense playing out? I sort of doubt it. Would we have learned that JFK was banging Marilyn Monroe without some gossip rag bringing it up back in the early 70's? Probably not. Both cases would have remained rumors buried deep in "no one cares land." It's the CT that brings stories out of the woodwork, even if they are half baked.

I really don't think that's true. I think a natural human curiosity and suspicion is more than enough to have revealed all of those things you have mentioned all on their own. I'm not going to credit conspiracy theory thinking with the existence of curiosity suspicion and paranoia, those things exist at some level naturally all the time and always have and that is normal and that is healthy. I do not think the conspiracy theory mindset has really contributed anything at all to the normal processes of Investigation and curiosity that would have revealed such things anyway