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AlbqOwl said:I first heard of the Wendy's policy at one of our local stores a week or so ago and then read of it in other places. Our local Wal-Mart also initiated a similar nation-wide policy before so many customers complained that they rescinded it. Other such phenomena is mentioned in this rather lengthy thread.
No need to apologize, however. I wouldn't have believed it either if it had not been explained to me by those operating under such a presumed politically correct dictate.
AlbqOwl said:I first heard of the Wendy's policy at one of our local stores a week or so ago and then read of it in other places. Our local Wal-Mart also initiated a similar nation-wide policy before so many customers complained that they rescinded it. Other such phenomena is mentioned in this rather lengthy thread.
No need to apologize, however. I wouldn't have believed it either if it had not been explained to me by those operating under such a presumed politically correct dictate.
inventr1 said:Hello All,
As the National Spokesperson for American Atheists I often get misquoted. The above statement is not true -- I made no such comment and support no such action.
American Atheists is suing to remove 12-foot-tall crosses (no stars, no crescents), from the side of the highways in Utah. These are gratuitous religious displays which surely show a one-sided support for one religion, and are illegal.
Bill O'reilly asked one of our representatives (not me) about the Arlington Cemetary, and our person was so put-off by the absurdity of the remark that he stumbled. Since then that's all we've heard about. It is not true. American Atheists is not about infringing on the rights of believers on their own grave stones.
The separation of church and state supports and protects believers and nonbelievers alike. We all need to stick to the matter at hand, and not assume the imagined.
David Silverman
National Spokesperson
American Atheists
http://www.nogodblog.com
Deegan said:You do know, that we indeed don't know the beliefs of some the brave souls buried here. So I ask, will you begin to seek out that information, and take the necessary action to right this terrible wrong?
Caine said:I can't answer for him but......
Why should they do that when they can just assume that this man or woman is a Christian, stab a cross down, and go on about thier business, because even if they were not a Christian, who cares? Its giving the almighty Cross more public view and maybe remind those who have fallen away from the Almighty Jesus, cause if they don't pray to him and believe in him they are going to HELL!!!!
Sorry for the sarcasm, but your question made it seem like it is okay to assume everyone is a christian unless otherwise stated, like a religious equivalent of "innocent until proven guilty"
Deegan said:I was really being more facetious then anything else, and I don't assume to know the religion of those who have fallen. This is why I asked the question, there are most likely people there with crosses on their graves, that we don't know if they are believers. The actual meaning of the cross is international, and is not limited to, or exclusive to Christian believers. It is a marking for our resting dead, and this attack is groundless, ridiculous, and I hope soon, fruitless.
Deegan said:I was really being more facetious then anything else, and I don't assume to know the religion of those who have fallen. This is why I asked the question, there are most likely people there with crosses on their graves, that we don't know if they are believers. The actual meaning of the cross is international, and is not limited to, or exclusive to Christian believers. It is a marking for our resting dead, and this attack is groundless, ridiculous, and I hope soon, fruitless.
Caine said:Since when has a cross been the marking of the dead??????
Since Christ died on it?
If you can do some research and come up with anything else, give me a link and let me know......
I always knew of a pile of stones to be the marking of the dead prior to the great philosopher Jesus.
Deegan said:I do apologize if I confused you with your representative, but I assume when he is out doing interviews, he does indeed speak for you, and your org. I was very surprised by the answer that your rep. gave to the question, and apparently I was not the only one. This "stumble" that you refer to, it was more then a mere stumble to those of us that are watching you and yours very carefully. This is an assualt on our society, and we will not sit idely by, and watch you dismantle this country, one cross at a time. While I have you here, maybe you could answer a question? You just said you would not want to remove a cross that was "about infringing on the rights of believers on their own grave stones." You do know, that we indeed don't know the beliefs of some the brave souls buried here. So I ask, will you begin to seek out that information, and take the necessary action to right this terrible wrong?
Deegan said:Of course it was the death of Jesus that first made the cross a well know symbol, but it is not limited to Christians, or religion. If you go to Europe, France more precisely, you will see crosses on all the graves of the fallen in WW1 and WW2, despite the religion of anyone buried there. Across this world you will see this mark, and it's well known that it is a mark of the dead. To try and limit this to one religion, and not see it's wide use as a symbol of death, is to unreasonable, and ignorant of the facts. I wonder what these atheists do when they live near a church, and the see the horrors of that hundred foot tall cross a top that house of worship? Do they move, do they just look away, do they plot a new course home? This is just ridiculous, you will never shield yourself from the symbols, nor should you feel the need.:roll:
Deegan said:Of course it was the death of Jesus that first made the cross a well know symbol, but it is not limited to Christians, or religion. If you go to Europe, France more precisely, you will see crosses on all the graves of the fallen in WW1 and WW2, despite the religion of anyone buried there. Across this world you will see this mark, and it's well known that it is a mark of the dead. To try and limit this to one religion, and not see it's wide use as a symbol of death, is to unreasonable, and ignorant of the facts. I wonder what these atheists do when they live near a church, and the see the horrors of that hundred foot tall cross a top that house of worship? Do they move, do they just look away, do they plot a new course home? This is just ridiculous, you will never shield yourself from the symbols, nor should you feel the need.:roll:
Columbusite said:I'm sure that representative didn't know the situation in Arlington was different and unfortunately just assumed the same thing was going on there. Which, if it was, would have been perfectly OK. I'm also sure that Mr. Silverman has better things to do than respond to your baseless assumptions.
Gee, they want to follow our Constitution and follow separation of church and state. The fact is, not American Atheists nor any other pro-separation of church and state org has taken action against Arlington National Cememtery. Period.
Deegan said:Well he did take the time obviously, just as you did. He has seen the outrage, and utter disgust that his, and his groups actions and words have created. The point is to show the ridiculousness of these crusades against the symbols and practices they have targeted. I also would remind you that there is, once again, no separation of church and state in our constitution, get this through your heads.:roll:
Caine said::rofl :rofl :rofl
Hannity teach you that one?
Listen, the seperation of church and state is just that, a seperation of church and state, and was worded as such, not specifically in the constitution, but in the writings of the man who came up with the idea to put it in the constitution.
With that being said.....
Just because his group causes outrage and utter disgust among christians, and because christians think that these "crusades" are ridiculous.. that does not make the christians "in the right"
Christians have a major problem in this country, and its thier "better than you" attitude about things. And, of course, thier view towards the other religions is "holy than thou"
This is another classic example of Christian intolerance and self-righteousnes.
Deegan said:Why do you people keep comparing me to Hannity, he must be a bright man, I wouldn't know though, as I don't watch him. Still, I must be doing something right, I have all of your panties in a twist, as you had mine. I have no intolerance for anyone who does not believe as I do, only for those who attack my beliefs, and present a threat to the continuation of that belief. I see a trend, and it makes me uneasy, nervous, and I won't apologize for that. I will however agree that some are this way, and as I have said numerous times, those people are a small minority. You seem to want to group everyone in this neat little box, I won't tolerate that, and I won't accept your label.
Stace said:See, that's the thing thought....you feel that "these people" are attacking your beliefs, posing a threat to the continuation of your beliefs?
Did you ever stop to think that just maybe, they feel the same way about you?
No religion, or lack thereof, is better than another. This country was founded so that individuals could practice any faith they chose, and to be able to do so without persecution. That is sadly not the case these days, and I think our Founding Fathers would be ashamed.
Deegan said:Well he did take the time obviously, just as you did. He has seen the outrage, and utter disgust that his, and his groups actions and words have created. The point is to show the ridiculousness of these crusades against the symbols and practices they have targeted. I also would remind you that there is, once again, no separation of church and state in our constitution, get this through your heads.:roll:
Deegan said:I also think the founding fathers would be very pleased, pleased that religion still exists, as they believed strongly in this as well. They would also be very proud that we have not intermingled the two, and that their system has worked brilliantly.
Columbusite said:I'm sure they would be pleased that freedom of religion is still working and church and state are not intermingled because...
Deegan said:Because only a very small majority believe that this would be good for the faith, good for the country, and good for the church. Again, we don't need to have this discussion, as the methods have been tested over and over again ad nauseum. The Pat Robertsons of the world are few, just as the godless on the left are, I will let them have their fight, I speak only for the rational majority of us. The majority who will never let this become a theocracy, as this nearly destroyed the church, and many countries along with it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, that is what my grandfather always said, and I can't think of a better fit for this situation.
Columbusite said:Not just that, but even if they got powerful enough the Consitution plainly says "No.". Although, if you're supposed to be a representative of the "rational" majority, my fears would be well founded (j/k, but I'm only half joking). I do agree that our Consitution has been working and there is no need to change it.
Deegan said:I have not seen anyone of faith attack those with no belief, I have seen them give them a place to sleep, a hot meal, and a smile, but never attack them for their beliefs, or lack there of. They are the ones on the defensive here, and they asked for this fight, and a fight they will get. I certainly hope we continue to take the high road in this debate, I am confident we will.
I also think the founding fathers would be very pleased, pleased that religion still exists, as they believed strongly in this as well. They would also be very proud that we have not intermingled the two, and that their system has worked brilliantly. As I mentioned in another thread, we are in no danger of a theocracy, and while you folks continue to claim this "war on Christmas" a ridiculous notion, nothing could be more ridiculous then this assumption. We don't need you liberal hero's to save us from our religious masters, the founding fathers, and this great country, have seen to that just fine. Go ride the coat tails of another, you are seriously not needed here, what arrogance.:roll:
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