Handgun freeze in Canada and five-round limit on magazines

[Callen]

To add some context to this, this not new stuff. Bill C-21 was originally introduced in Parliament a year ago last April.....13 months ago. Trudeau made it a campaign promise in his previous campaign. It was put on hold when the snap election was called and is now being reintroduced. Trudeau campaigned on this twice! I can't recall if the hand gun ban was part of the original bill but the rest was.

 

[Callen]

Are they really this stupid? Under the delusion that the bad guys will obey the law and give up their guns?
Like you, I can only conclude that they don't think their citizens have the right to self-defend themselves.
Trudeau's Cantopia!

Hand gun ownership in Canada is very, very low already. We weren't worried about self defense before and we aren't about to start.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Your source: The violent crime rate in the United States has decreased sharply over the past 25 years.

And the same has happened in Canada -

​

so your point is - what? That the lower violent crime rate in the US (which is higher than the lower violent crime rate in Canada) is lower than it used to be but still higher than the Canadian one?

The US indicator dropped by 25.86% while the Canadian indicator dropped by 30.09% over the same period, so the Canadian rate is coming down even faster than the US rate is.

So, really, other than a rather pathetic "Hey, don't look at the facts, just pay attention to something totally irrelevant and take it out of context because if you do that you will think that the US is doing a real bang-up job of dealing with its problems and that will let you ignore reality with a clear conscience." flag-waver, what WAS the point of your post?

 

[Tender Branson]

So, 90% of the time people in Austria found another way to kill people.

Yes, but that is not the issue. The thing is that the US murder rate is so high because in 80% of the murders there a gun was used. In Austria, only 10%. That's why the rate here is 16x lower than in the US. The fewer guns in circulation and the stricter the gun laws, the lower the murder rates. You can't kill as many with a knife or strangle 20 people to death, as you can kill with guns.

 

[gbg3]

This (link from yesterday) is off topic from this thread but it is about Canada and appears to be a big issue, which has been going on for a very long time (fourth report). It's lengthy and the level of detail kind of reminded me of the NY Post about Hunter - before that story was quickly censored. There was a lot of detail in that one too.

Often, people talk about politicians wanting to change the subject or even introduce a new subject when facing tough news. Is it possible the Trudeau gun plan/discussion is being introduced right now to reduce the news (new/renewed) on the Canadian military?

"About a quarter of the women serving in the Canadian military said they had been sexually assaulted during their military careers, according to a government census. And the government has set aside nearly $800 million to settle class action lawsuits by current and former military members involving sexual misconduct.

The cascade of sexual abuse scandals has shaken confidence in the military in Canada, where on Monday the government released an independent review by a former Supreme Court justice aimed at addressing what critics say is a pervasive and systemic problem that has persisted despite past promises of reform.

It is the fourth report to focus on sexual abuse in Canada’s military, where victims say that abuse permeates all levels of the forces and that they are frequently punished for speaking out."

Canada’s Military, Where Sexual Misconduct Went to the Top, Looks for a New Path (Published 2022)

A report by a former Supreme Court justice released Monday offers recommendations to turn around pervasive sexual assault and harassment.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Yes, but that is not the issue. The thing is that the US murder rate is so high because in 80% of the murders there a gun was used. In Austria, only 10%. That's why the rate here is 16x lower than in the US. The fewer guns in circulation and the stricter the gun laws, the lower the murder rates. You can't kill as many with a knife or strangle 20 people to death, as you can kill with guns.

It also helps if you have a substantially lower percentage of the population who think that shooting at someone because:

1. they don't like the way they were driving;
2. they don't like the way that they' looked at you funny';
3. they don't like the way they make toast;
4. they don't like the way they won't let you watch a TV program; or
5. they "wanted to make a statement" because they "had issues" and used their "Second Amendment Rights" in furtherance of their "First Amendment Rights".

Besides, Americans are great ones for "setting records" and while "65 people killed" is higher than any individual American has managed to kill

using a non-explosive device in a single incident ​

it is one that anyone can reach given just a bit of foresight and planning.

 

[Tigerace117]

I wonder if that clown PM up there realizes he is helping the pro gun side down here with his silly anti gun bed wetting?

Gun obsessives shrieking about how “tyrannical” Canada is when it’s clearly nothing of the sort will be rather amusing.

 

[TurtleDude]

Gun obsessives shrieking about how “tyrannical” Canada is when it’s clearly nothing of the sort will be rather amusing.

its the king of straw men launching yet another corporal hay into the fight

 

[Tigerace117]

its the king of straw men launching yet another corporal hay into the fight

Oh look, the gun obsessive is pouting because he can’t bear to face the facts.....as usual.

Canada is just yet another country where gun obsessives’ assertion that it’s their hoarding weapons that deters tyranny is shown to be a pathetic lie.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

This (link from yesterday) is off topic from this thread but it is about Canada and appears to be a big issue, which has been going on for a very long time (fourth report). It's lengthy and the level of detail kind of reminded me of the NY Post about Hunter - before that story was quickly censored. There was a lot of detail in that one too.

Often, people talk about politicians wanting to change the subject or even introduce a new subject when facing tough news. Is it possible the Trudeau gun plan/discussion is being introduced right now to reduce the news (new/renewed) on the Canadian military?

"About a quarter of the women serving in the Canadian military said they had been sexually assaulted during their military careers, according to a government census. And the government has set aside nearly $800 million to settle class action lawsuits by current and former military members involving sexual misconduct.

The cascade of sexual abuse scandals has shaken confidence in the military in Canada, where on Monday the government released an independent review by a former Supreme Court justice aimed at addressing what critics say is a pervasive and systemic problem that has persisted despite past promises of reform.

It is the fourth report to focus on sexual abuse in Canada’s military, where victims say that abuse permeates all levels of the forces and that they are frequently punished for speaking out."

Canada’s Military, Where Sexual Misconduct Went to the Top, Looks for a New Path (Published 2022)

A report by a former Supreme Court justice released Monday offers recommendations to turn around pervasive sexual assault and harassment.

www.nytimes.com

I know. When you look at "‘A Poison in the System’: The Epidemic of Military Sexual Assault" you can see how much better the situation is in the US (where only 1 in 4 women in the military report being sexually assaulted) than it is in Canada where ONE QUARTER of the women in the military reported being sexually assaulted.

 

[Tender Branson]

Stricter firearm legislation lowers murder and suicide rates​

MedUni Vienna study highlights a correlation

The study shows that firearm-related murder and suicide rates fell significantly year-on-year after legal access to firearms was made more difficult in 1997. The slow-down in the trend relating to firearm-related suicides and a reversal of the trend in firearm-related murder rates in 2008 could be partly attributed to an increase in the issue of firearms permits following the economic crisis. In view of the growing sense of insecurity amongst the population, König expects a further increase in gun ownership in the near future and a corresponding increase in the probability of firearm-related suicides. Counteracting this trend is an important challenge for society.

Service: European Psychiatry

Austrian firearm legislation and its effects on suicide and homicide mortality: A natural quasi-experiment amidst the global economic crisis

Daniel König, Patrick Swoboda, Robert J. Cramer, Christoph Krall, Vita Postuvan, Nestor D. Kapusta; European Psychiatry 52 (2018) 104–112.

Stricter firearm legislation lowers murder and suicide rates | MedUni Vienna

www.meduniwien.ac.at

 

[Allan]

Hand gun ownership in Canada is very, very low already. We weren't worried about self defense before and we aren't about to start.

We're not. Handguns have been banned in Great Britain for over 25 years. There wasn't a sudden increase in murders because people couldn't defend themselves.

 

[Tigerace117]

its the king of straw men launching yet another corporal hay into the fight

And gee bud, looks like it’s already started.

“Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky's 4th district tweeted: "The dystopian future Trudeau is manifesting in Canada is coming to America if U.S. citizens don't get involved."

“ Representative Matt Gaetz of Florida's 1st district also shared footage of Trudeau and wrote: "The True North strong and (less) free..." in parody of the Canadian national anthem.

“ Chris Palombi, a Republican candidate for Maryland's 5th district, tweeted: "O Canada... Trudeau is turning our neighbors to the north into a totalitarian dictatorship. Just wait until the slippery slope continues and they begin seizing guns..."

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it," Palombi said.”

MSN

 

[TurtleDude]

And gee bud, looks like it’s already started.

“Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky's 4th district tweeted: "The dystopian future Trudeau is manifesting in Canada is coming to America if U.S. citizens don't get involved."

“ Representative Matt Gaetz of Florida's 1st district also shared footage of Trudeau and wrote: "The True North strong and (less) free..." in parody of the Canadian national anthem.

“ Chris Palombi, a Republican candidate for Maryland's 5th district, tweeted: "O Canada... Trudeau is turning our neighbors to the north into a totalitarian dictatorship. Just wait until the slippery slope continues and they begin seizing guns..."

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it," Palombi said.”

MSN

well Turdeau clearly proved that gun banners never stop

 

[Tigerace117]

well Turdeau clearly proved that gun banners never stop

He clearly proved that gun obsessives have no clue what tyranny is.

Which rather begs the question: for all gun obsessives go on about “resisting tyranny”, would they even recognize it if it actually came to America?

So far, looks like a firm no

 

[VanceMack]

Yes, but that is not the issue. The thing is that the US murder rate is so high because in 80% of the murders there a gun was used. In Austria, only 10%. That's why the rate here is 16x lower than in the US. The fewer guns in circulation and the stricter the gun laws, the lower the murder rates. You can't kill as many with a knife or strangle 20 people to death, as you can kill with guns.

Oh but it IS the point.

People intent on killing, WILL kill.

As for the raw numbers...the US is unlike pretty much every other country. You cant compare your mostly white homogeneous existence to ours. Outside of our rat infested, rat run shitholes in the major cities across the country, our crime and violence rates mirror most countries with low violent crime rates. But...like what Canada is experiencing, very soon, you are going to start joining the US with your growing gang problems. Austria has a net zero indigenous population growth rate...and a net gain of 1 new immigrant every 26 minutes. Migrant attacks are occurring pretty much daily and your neo-Nazi growth is increasing in response.

You are ****ed...and you dont even know.

 

[TurtleDude]

He clearly proved that gun obsessives have no clue what tyranny is.

Which rather begs the question: for all gun obsessives go on about “resisting tyranny”, would they even recognize it if it actually came to America?

So far, looks like a firm no

you always try to change a discussion to use terms that are not relevant so you can bash stuff no one is saying. Your moronic posts constantly fixate over our idiotic claim that "gun hoarding does not stop tyranny" when I have yet to see anyone arguing that merely hoarding guns will stop a tyrant. it is the threat of shooting a tyrant that stops tyranny, not merely owning something and not using it.. Turdeau is an assclown but I don't see him as a tyrant

 

[Court Jester]

Government’s to introduce Bill C-21, as Justin Trudeau says sport shooting and hunting the only grounds for ‘everyday’ gun ownership

In other words, Canadians do not have the natural God given right to defend their own lives and property with a gun.

Canada - the sane & adult America.

Only when it comes to hockey.

Sadly Canada like many former British colonies are still subjected to the concept that natural rights are only allowed to them by either a king or a government. That freedom is top down, never bottom up.

 

[Tender Branson]

Oh but it IS the point.

People intent on killing, WILL kill.

As for the raw numbers...the US is unlike pretty much every other country. You cant compare your mostly white homogeneous existence to ours. Outside of our rat infested, rat run shitholes in the major cities across the country, our crime and violence rates mirror most countries with low violent crime rates. But...like what Canada is experiencing, very soon, you are going to start joining the US with your growing gang problems. Austria has a net zero indigenous population growth rate...and a net gain of 1 new immigrant every 26 minutes. Migrant attacks are occurring pretty much daily and your neo-Nazi growth is increasing in response.

You are ****ed...and you dont even know.

Silly right-wing fearmongering.

We are a heavy immigration country, but there are no gangs, because we have a good immigration integration.

 

[Tigerace117]

you always try to change a discussion to use terms that are not relevant so you can bash stuff no one is saying. Your moronic posts constantly fixate over our idiotic claim that "gun hoarding does not stop tyranny" when I have yet to see anyone arguing that merely hoarding guns will stop a tyrant. it is the threat of shooting a tyrant that stops tyranny, not merely owning something and not using it.. Turdeau is an assclown but I don't see him as a tyrant

I literally provided examples of multiple gun obsessives claiming that Trudeau’s actions are “turning Canada into a tyranny” when that is clearly not the case.

Once again, history shows, quite clearly, that a determined tyrant is not “deterred” by being shot at; instead, they use overwhelming force to utterly crush those who tried to resist them.

 

[Allan]

Just be thankful we don't live there.

We're safer walking the streets here. Our kids are safer in schools here. That matters far more than a bunch of gun nutter's opinions.

 

[Allan]

He clearly proved that gun obsessives have no clue what tyranny is.

Which rather begs the question: for all gun obsessives go on about “resisting tyranny”, would they even recognize it if it actually came to America?

So far, looks like a firm no

Norway, Sweden, Australia, NZ, Canada and every other developed country is living in tyranny. But when their side tries to overthrow an elected government that isn't tyranny. See how that works?

 

[trixare4kids]

We're safer walking the streets here. Our kids are safer in schools here. That matters far more than a bunch of gun nutter's opinions.

It pleases me that you are so happy that your government bestows on its citizenry only the rights that they think they should have...
Now maybe Canadians will learn to mind their business when it comes to our Constitutionally protected rights. What do you think are the chances of this happening?

 

[Allan]

It pleases me that you are so happy that your government bestows on its citizenry only the rights that they think they should have...
Now maybe Canadians will learn to mind their business when it comes to our Constitutionally protected rights. What do you think are the chances of this happening?

About the same chances of you ever minding your business. Zip.

 

[Tigerace117]

Norway, Sweden, Australia, NZ, Canada and every other developed country is living in tyranny. But when their side tries to overthrow an elected government that isn't tyranny. See how that works?

Some days I wonder if there really is something in the water that makes Americans so delusionally paranoid.