Hamas, which Israel helped create

[multivita-man]

Hence the lengthy discussion of history immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor, I suppose?

Different conflict, different era, but in any case, I don't know why you bring that up because I'm not opposing Israel's right to retaliate.

Or the deeply philosophical historical discussions we engaged in immediately after 9-11?

Which was totally justified, as is Israel's right to retaliate. People certainly did talk about US foreign policy, though. I guess you were watching Fox News 24/7 and missed it.

Do you have ANY clue why such discussions as you're attempting are totally irrelevant to what's happening right now?

It's not irrelevant. It seems that you're advocating that countries just blindly launch war and think about the consequences later - as we did in Iraq and and Afghanistan. How did that turn out?

 

[weaver2]

Hence the lengthy discussion of history immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor, I suppose?
Or the deeply philosophical historical discussions we engaged in immediately after 9-11?

Do you have ANY clue why such discussions as you're attempting are totally irrelevant to what's happening right now?

In order to solve a problem (you are interested in solving not punishing, right?) you have to talk about the history of how the problem came to be a problem. Do you think there were no discussions about the Japanese before Pearl Harbor or of Iran before 9/11?

How do you propose to reach a solution that is effective without discussion? The numbskulls that immediately advocate bombing someone back to the Stone Age immediately following an attack are seldom smart enough to carry out an effective attack. And they are mostly just blowhards acting like they know something.

 

[Mongidig]

Israel backed the Frankenstein that perpetrated the violence

That is the fact that you would prefer to ignore

stop with the victim blaming, It’s disgusting.

 

[SCrider]

Hence the lengthy discussion of history immediately following the attack on Pearl Harbor, I suppose?
Or the deeply philosophical historical discussions we engaged in immediately after 9-11?

Do you have ANY clue why such discussions as you're attempting are totally irrelevant to what's happening right now?

Big difference between actually being in the fight and sitting back in safety and talking about it on a message board.
If we just continue down the path of an eye for an eye we will never get past these fights.

 

[Fletch]

Nobody's blaming the victims. The Israeli government isn't the victim; the individuals who were massacred by Hamas are the victims. People are pointing out that Israel once made the misguided calculation that it was in their citizens interests to support Islamic extremism because they were supposedly capable of weakening the PLO.

Explain how that's victim blaming.

Israel is attacked by Hamas barbarians that slaughter hundreds of Israeli citizens and the American left is tripping over itself to argue that Israel created Hamas. Yes, that is blaming the victim.

 

[SCrider]

Is that what I said?

Is that a logical conclusion to draw from what I said?

Good grief.

Yes, I would say it is.

 

[multivita-man]

stop with the victim blaming, It’s disgusting.

Dude some of the harshest critics of Israel's Palestinian policies are Jews and Israelis themselves. As I said earlier in the thread, it's the individuals who were murdered and abducted and their families and friends who are the victims, and it's the people on both sides who have to wonder what comes next as all sides ratchet up the intensity of the conflict. But the government and its policy apparatus isn't the victim. Bibi Netanyahu and the Likud are not victims. The ultra-right zealots are not victims.

 

[Fletch]

In order for criticism of the actions of the state of Israel to be antisemitism those acts would have to be inherently Jewish.

Or the most effective propaganda tool ever devised.

“Hey! You poisoned my dog!”

“He was chasing my cat!”

“Doesn’t give you the right to poison my dog.”

“ANTISEMITE!”

Thats dumb and mak4s no sense. But other than that, great post!

 

[EdwinWillers]

Different conflict, different era, but in any case, I don't know why you bring that up because I'm not opposing Israel's right to retaliate.
Which was totally justified, as is Israel's right to retaliate. People certainly did talk about US foreign policy, though. I guess you were watching Fox News 24/7 and missed it.
It's not irrelevant. It seems that you're advocating that countries just blindly launch war and think about the consequences later - as we did in Iraq and and Afghanistan. How did that turn out?

Sigh.

So - in your august opinion - what should Israel do? Right now. Today. What should Israel do?

Discuss history? Afghanistan? Iraq? The 1948 Arab Israeli war? 1950's-60's Palestinian Insurgency? 1956 Suez Crisis? 1967 6-day war? 1967-70 War of Attrition? The 1973 Yom Kippur war? The 1972-82 Palestinian insurgency? The first Intifada of '87-'93? The 1985-2000 Lebanese conflict? The second Intifada of 2000-2005? The 2006 Lebanon war? The Gaza war of 2008-9? The Gaza Strip offensive of 2012? The Gaza war of 2014? The Israel-Palestinian crisis of 2021? Or the current Gaza war of 2023?

 

[multivita-man]

Israel is attacked by Hamas barbarians that slaughter hundreds of Israeli citizens and the American left is tripping over itself to argue that Israel created Hamas. Yes, that is blaming the victim.

So was it wise for Israel to support Islamic radicals over secular Arab nationalists who, albeit having terrorist tendencies themselves, were far more willing to engage with Israel politically? Yes or no - is it wise to fund and arm Islamic fanatics?

If you want to argue that was then, this is now, that's fine - I actually agree with that. But it's important that people actually realize that this happened, as many people are not. How do you learn from history by ignoring it and doubling down on ideas that are demonstrably failures?

 

[weaver2]

Sigh.

So - in your august opinion - what should Israel do? Right now. Today. What should Israel do?

Discuss history? Afghanistan? Iraq? The 1948 Arab Israeli war? 1950's-60's Palestinian Insurgency? 1956 Suez Crisis? 1967 6-day war? 1967-70 War of Attrition? The 1973 Yom Kippur war? The 1972-82 Palestinian insurgency? The first Intifada of '87-'93? The 1985-2000 Lebanese conflict? The second Intifada of 2000-2005? The 2006 Lebanon war? The Gaza war of 2008-9? The Gaza Strip offensive of 2012? The Gaza war of 2014? The Israel-Palestinian crisis of 2021? Or the current Gaza war of 2023?

Yes, all of the above!

 

[EdwinWillers]

Yes, I would say it is.

Well, it wasn't.

 

[multivita-man]

Sigh.

So - in your august opinion - what should Israel do? Right now. Today. What should Israel do?

You could have asked that question in your first post.

They should do whatever is necessary to root out Hamas, provided that they do not engage in war crimes.

Discuss history? Afghanistan? Iraq? The 1948 Arab Israeli war? 1950's-60's Palestinian Insurgency? 1956 Suez Crisis? 1967 6-day war? 1967-70 War of Attrition? The 1973 Yom Kippur war? The 1972-82 Palestinian insurgency? The first Intifada of '87-'93? The 1985-2000 Lebanese conflict? The second Intifada of 2000-2005? The 2006 Lebanon war? The Gaza war of 2008-9? The Gaza Strip offensive of 2012? The Gaza war of 2014? The Israel-Palestinian crisis of 2021? Or the current Gaza war of 2023?

I've already discussed those topics on other threads. Maybe stop thread-shitting and just stick with this topic.

 

[What if...?]

Thats dumb and mak4s no sense. But other than that, great post!

I enjoy making posts I know yall can’t let yourselves understand.

It’s the only good thing about understanding how you got the way you are. I know where they put the handles.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Yes, all of the above!

And in the meantime?

 

[weaver2]

And in the meantime?
View attachment 67471937

Why do you think discussion precluded action? Many people can walk and chew gum, did you know that?

 

[EdwinWillers]

You could have asked that question in your first post.

They should do whatever is necessary to root out Hamas, provided that they do not engage in war crimes.

Really?

I've already discussed those topics on other threads. Maybe stop thread-shitting and just stick with this topic.

Well, that's those threads. This is this one. It might surprise you to note that I don't follow you around, searching all your posts to see what you've written elsewhere that might have relevance here - not my style.

But "thread-shitting?"

 

[EdwinWillers]

Many people can walk and chew gum, did you know that?

Do tell. And did you get a special ribbon for that?

smh.

 

[weaver2]

Do tell. And did you get a special ribbon for that?

smh.

Yup, to bad you didn't.

 

[Fletch]

So was it wise for Israel to support Islamic radicals over secular Arab nationalists who, albeit having terrorist tendencies themselves, were far more willing to engage with Israel politically? Yes or no - is it wise to fund and arm Islamic fanatics?

If you want to argue that was then, this is now, that's fine - I actually agree with that. But it's important that people actually realize that this happened, as many people are not. How do you learn from history by ignoring it and doubling down on ideas that are demonstrably failures?

Maybe 50 years ago it was a bad idea to promote Hamas as a foil to the PLO. But bringing it up now only serves the propaganda interests of the barbarians. This is ISIS level atrocities and you Libs are tripping over one another to point the finger at the victims. Its disgusting and can nly be explained by anti-Semitism.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Thats dumb and mak4s no sense. But other than that, great post!

It's interesting that no five pages into this thread and there has yet to be one post from our friends on the left, denouncing Hamas' actions.

Instead, we're getting nothing but history lessons from them - all basically blaming Israel for the Hamas attacks.

 

[multivita-man]

Really?

Well, that's those threads. This is this one. It might surprise you to note that I don't follow you around, searching all your posts to see what you've written elsewhere that might have relevance here - not my style.

You're too lazy to use the search function, I guess. It's not our responsibility to post about topics that aren't germane to the thread topic.

But "thread-shitting?"

Yep.

 

[multivita-man]

Maybe 50 years ago it was a bad idea to promote Hamas as a foil to the PLO. But bringing it up now only serves the propaganda interests of the barbarians. This is ISIS level atrocities and you Libs are tripping over one another to point the finger at the victims. Its disgusting and can nly be explained by anti-Semitism.

You have no idea what anti-Semitism is. Stop talking about things you do not understand.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Yup, to bad you didn't.

 

[Fletch]

I enjoy making posts I know yall can’t let yourselves understand.

It’s the only good thing about understanding how you got the way you are. I know where they put the handles.

Well if you come here to make posts the people you are talking to wont understand, then you are contributing nothing and really doing little more than trolling..