Hamas Says It Agrees to Release All Hostages in Gaza

[Tigerace117]

Are you talking about citizens killing Palestinians, or the Israeli government is killing them??

The Israeli government is doing the killing, alongside Israeli settlers

 

[Desert Storm]

The Israeli government is doing the killing, alongside Israeli settlers

Right, but Hamas attacked and killed innocent civilians on Oct. 7th.
If they had attacked the Israeli army that would have been different, but they didn't do that.
Therefore they're the bad guys in all this

 

[Tigerace117]

Right, but Hamas attacked and killed innocent civilians on Oct. 7th.
If they had attacked the Israeli army that would have been different, but they didn't do that.
Therefore they're the bad guys in all this

They absolutely attacked IDF troops on October 7th, so that isn’t true either

 

[Hamish Howl]

Right, but Hamas attacked and killed innocent civilians on Oct. 7th.
If they had attacked the Israeli army that would have been different, but they didn't do that.
Therefore they're the bad guys in all this

They did both, in fact capturing for a short time an IDF vehicle park/motor pool.

Then actual troops showed up and killed them.

 

[Desert Storm]

They absolutely attacked IDF troops on October 7th, so that isn’t true either

But they also attacked innocent civilians.
And when they dragged the hostages and dead civilians back into Gaza, all the rest of the Palestinians cheered them on.

Therefore they get no sympathy for me.
They got bombed into oblivion and they got what they deserved

 

[Tigerace117]

But they also attacked innocent civilians.
And when they dragged the hostages and dead civilians back into Gaza, all the rest of the Palestinians cheered them on.

Therefore they get no sympathy for me.
They got bombed into oblivion and they got what they deserved

Israel has, again, killed more innocent civilians in one year than Hamas has in its entire existence and it isn’t even remotely close in comparison.

 

[Desert Storm]

Israel has, again, killed more innocent civilians in one year than Hamas has in its entire existence and it isn’t even remotely close in comparison

How many Israelis have been killed by Palestinians in terror attacks over the last 70 years

 

[Tigerace117]

How many Israelis have been killed by Palestinians in terror attacks over the last 70 years

Not even a tenth as many as Palestinian civilians were killed over the last two years.

 

[snakestretcher]

HAMAS claimed the hospital was directly struck by an air strike.

We watched a rocket be fired by Palestinians, misfire, and strike the parking lot outside. This was confirmed by multiple outside nations, NGO observers, and every single satellite imagery provider in the world.

You claimed no one had said so except Israel. This was incorrect.

You claimed we had no way to know. This was incorrect.

Now you are suggesting it was a .... black flag op?







Entertainingly, the very article that first ran it

The argument put forth was:

• Israel (like all nation states) tries to keep track of who is in the terrorist groups that target it
• Israel had been able to match 17% of the confirmed dead thus far with names of people who it was tracking as being members of HAMAS
• Ergo, 83% of the casualties are civilians

The problem of course being that:

• Israel (like all nation states) is not an omniscient all-knowing God with perfect insight into who is on the payroll of groups that hate it
• All casualties are not known by name
• All casualties are not confirmed

So, instead of being - what it was, in fact - a story about a rather impressive granular-level ability to put together who was who in HAMAS during conventional combat operations..... it became a story pushing a narrative that fell apart as soon as someone pointed out that it was logically incoherent. It's like looking at a bunker full of dead germans on the beach of Normandy and deciding "Welp, unless we happen to recognize their faces and know their first names, all these chaps in Wehrmacht uniforms must be civilians". All it took was someone to stop for more than 30 seconds and read it critically.


That, of course, didn't stop it from getting picked up and repeated ad-nauseum by the anti-Israeli western press, who aren't so concerned about "facts" as they are The Narrative.

You watched a rocket misfiring? I doubt it. Perhaps all the other hospitals, refugee camps and 'safe' zones targeted by the IDF were also Hamas rockets 'misfiring'. What do you think?

And there's this:

Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza: Findings on October 17 al-Ahli Hospital Explosion

The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups, that hit the hospital grounds, Human Rights Watch said today. While misfires...

www.hrw.org

Gaza hospital blast: What does new analysis tell us?

The BBC Verify team examines the latest evidence and assessments about what may have caused the explosion.

www.bbc.co.uk

This degree of uncertainty is why I have serious doubts about the claims of 'misfired' munitions.

 

[snakestretcher]

Thanks for admitting that your post was based in ignorance, since nothing you posted disproves my statement.

I'm also not sure why you think nothing can expunge Hamas. Are they not mortal men, using nothing but common weapons? I think you are attempting to make a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like saying, "well, we thought we had wiped out the Nazis in WWII, but since Nazis still exist in various countries, there was never any point to fighting them because they were going to survive no matter what."

You might as well try to expunge Christianity. Hamas won't be going anywhere, just like ISIS whom Trump also claimed to have destroyed; Israel has singularly failed to defeat Hamas and they've had decades of trying.

 

[snakestretcher]

It is obvious that terrorists can offer a threat to the peaceful existance of a nation. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Do you not understand what 'existential threat' means? It means a threat so great that the very existence of the thing threatened, is at risk. Israel was never at risk of being eliminated.

 

[Desert Storm]

Not even a tenth as many as Palestinian civilians were killed over the last two years

If you don't want your country decimated and have tens of thousands of people killed, then don't start a war in the first place

 

[Tigerace117]

If you don't want your country decimated and have tens of thousands of people killed, then don't start a war in the first place

Israel was murdering Palestinian civilians long before October 7th, as was already pointed out to you.

 

[cpwill]

You watched a rocket misfiring? I doubt it.

Citing again for you from the intel :

U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday they have determined with “high confidence” that Israel was not responsible for the huge explosion at al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza City that killed scores of people last week

...The ultimate assessment that the strike was not the result of an Israeli weapon was based on two primary factors, the officials said. First, the damage from the strike was consistent with a rocket, and not an Israeli munition, such as a bomb dropped from the air or an artillery round, which would have caused significant structural damage to the hospital building and left a large crater. Videos and images show “only light structural damage,” one of the officials said.​

​

Second, analysts were able to track the trajectory based on videos shot from four locations. Two cameras captured the flight of the projectile, which analysts judge to have been launched within the Gaza Strip, the official said. The rocket then traveled northeast, and about 10 seconds after launch, the motor became unstable, the official said. The rocket’s plume fluctuated in intensity, and a few seconds later, analysts observed a large flash. That, the official said, was the motor failing. As a result of the failure, the rocket changed direction, the official said. The rocket came apart and the motor struck the ground, followed by the warhead, which landed at the hospital and caused a large explosion, the official said.​

Yeah. We captured this rocket on multiple sensors. We literally watched it fire, misfire, become unstable, and land outside the hospital where - contrary to HAMAS claims of an Aerial Bomb that destroyed much of the building - it hit the parking lot, and set off a series of secondaries from the fuel tanks inside the vehicles.

And there's this:

Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza: Findings on October 17 al-Ahli Hospital Explosion

The explosion that killed and injured many civilians at al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza on October 17, 2023, resulted from an apparent rocket-propelled munition, such as those commonly used by Palestinian armed groups, that hit the hospital grounds, Human Rights Watch said today. While misfires...

www.hrw.org

Gaza hospital blast: What does new analysis tell us?

The BBC Verify team examines the latest evidence and assessments about what may have caused the explosion.

www.bbc.co.uk

Did you even bother to read these links? Even Wikipedia - which is stretching as hard as it can, given who has taken over that site - is left showing you that the evidence supports that it was a misfired rocket, and not a single one of them supports HAMAS' claims that an aerial bomb struck and destroyed a large section of the Hospital.

This degree of uncertainty is why I have serious doubts about the claims of 'misfired' munitions.

No, no it isn't. You do not want to believe that HAMAS lied to you, and so no amount of evidence is sufficient, which is why you earlier retreated to the No One Can Really Know Anything standard.


Because, contrary to your assertion, you are fine with propaganda, so long as it reaffirms your preferred narratives.

 

[Ouroboros]

If you don't want your country decimated and have tens of thousands of people killed, then don't start a war in the first place

Particularly not with a more powerful enemy. It's like a little dog whining because it challenged a big dog and got chewed up. But we all know that the purpose of Oct 7 was not to avenge past "murders." It was to place Israel in the position of killing a lot of non-combatants in their efforts to go after the cowardly "combatants." It was a morally bankrupt effort to embarrass Israel on the national stage by letting non-combatants get in harm's way (the tunnels had no other real purpose) and thus galvanizing a lot of dipstick Liberals, and it was successful for a time in that Biden slow-walked aid to Israel to appease empty-headed Libs. Trump found a work-around by appealing not to altruism but to the mutual welfare of other Muslim countries. It may work wholly, partly, or not at all. But it's more constructive than all the Mad Lib idiots chanting "from the river to the sea." There's more of a chance that countervailing political movements will arise to challenge the cynical evil of Hamas.

 

[Ouroboros]

You might as well try to expunge Christianity. Hamas won't be going anywhere, just like ISIS whom Trump also claimed to have destroyed; Israel has singularly failed to defeat Hamas and they've had decades of trying.

See the last couple sentences of post 590.

 

[Desert Storm]

Israel was murdering Palestinian civilians long before October 7th, as was already pointed out to you

And Hamas response was lets go kill some civilians of our own. Brilliant plan.....LOL

 

[stevecanuck]

You might as well try to expunge Christianity. Hamas won't be going anywhere, just like ISIS whom Trump also claimed to have destroyed; Israel has singularly failed to defeat Hamas and they've had decades of trying.

You actually seem happy that islamosupremacists "won't be going anywhere". Please tell me you don't think that's a good thing - just a fact to be dealt with. If that's the case, then I agree with you.

 

[stevecanuck]

Do you not understand what 'existential threat' means? It means a threat so great that the very existence of the thing threatened, is at risk. Israel was never at risk of being eliminated.

I agree - not eliminated - just eternally attacked.

 

[stevecanuck]

Particularly not with a more powerful enemy. It's like a little dog whining because it challenged a big dog and got chewed up. But we all know that the purpose of Oct 7 was not to avenge past "murders." It was to place Israel in the position of killing a lot of non-combatants in their efforts to go after the cowardly "combatants." It was a morally bankrupt effort to embarrass Israel on the national stage by letting non-combatants get in harm's way (the tunnels had no other real purpose) and thus galvanizing a lot of dipstick Liberals, and it was successful for a time in that Biden slow-walked aid to Israel to appease empty-headed Libs. Trump found a work-around by appealing not to altruism but to the mutual welfare of other Muslim countries. It may work wholly, partly, or not at all. But it's more constructive than all the Mad Lib idiots chanting "from the river to the sea." There's more of a chance that countervailing political movements will arise to challenge the cynical evil of Hamas.

Anyone who thinks this war is about land and autonomy for Palestinians has their head in the sand. Hamas' founding charter could not have been more clear about that:

• Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
• The Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.
• So-called peaceful solutions ... are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

 

[Desert Storm]

Anyone who thinks this war is about land and autonomy for Palestinians has their head in the sand. Hamas' founding charter could not have been more clear about that:

• Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
• The Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.
• So-called peaceful solutions ... are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement

Hamas has also made it very clear they want to see Israel completely removed from the middle-East.

This is why so long as Hamas are in charge, there's not going to be peace

 

[Tigerace117]

And Hamas response was lets go kill some civilians of our own. Brilliant plan.....LOL

Except Hamas killed plenty of Israeli soldiers as well… a fact you deliberately ran from when it was pointed out to you.

 

[Tigerace117]

Particularly not with a more powerful enemy. It's like a little dog whining because it challenged a big dog and got chewed up. But we all know that the purpose of Oct 7 was not to avenge past "murders." It was to place Israel in the position of killing a lot of non-combatants in their efforts to go after the cowardly "combatants." It was a morally bankrupt effort to embarrass Israel on the national stage by letting non-combatants get in harm's way (the tunnels had no other real purpose) and thus galvanizing a lot of dipstick Liberals, and it was successful for a time in that Biden slow-walked aid to Israel to appease empty-headed Libs. Trump found a work-around by appealing not to altruism but to the mutual welfare of other Muslim countries. It may work wholly, partly, or not at all. But it's more constructive than all the Mad Lib idiots chanting "from the river to the sea." There's more of a chance that countervailing political movements will arise to challenge the cynical evil of Hamas.

The guy who falls all over himself defending literal slavery and those who fought for it blathering about the “evils of Hamas” is just too ****ing funny.

 

[Desert Storm]

Except Hamas killed plenty of Israeli soldiers as well… a fact you deliberately ran from when it was pointed out to you

Except, Hamas killed plenty of civilians also, a fact you conveniently try to deflect from by bringing up the IDF soldiers they killed

 

[Desert Storm]

800 Israeli civilians were killed according to AI

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