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Hamas Says It Agrees to Release All Hostages in Gaza

snakestretcher said:
You still lost; like Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea-I'll allow mighty Grenada though; that was a stunning victory against overwhelming odds...

/sarcasm
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You?? I'm not American.

Afghanistan and Iraq wars were initially won, but the occupation was lost.

And Korea was a half-win
 
snakestretcher said:
What you are not interested in is acknowledging historical facts, and that is pathetic in, presumably, an adult.
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Your biases are not historical facts and since you mentioned it they are pathetic. As for your patronizing tone ironically it's juvenile. Focus on the issues not the person and I will not need to point this out.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Who cares? The war didn’t end after the “initial” phase. That’s like saying Germany didn’t lose World War Two
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But @snakestretcher claimed that the US couldn't win a Gaza war.
The US could easily win that war.
Just carpet bomb the hell out of the entire country.
Gaza is only the size of Philadelphia, so they could probably do it in a couple of weeks.

But like I said before, the political will isn't there to do bomb Gaza.
You would kill about 2 million Palestinians.
No politician is prepared to do that.
But if they really wanted to, they could easily do it
 
Desert Storm said:
But @snakestretcher claimed that the US couldn't win a Gaza war.
The US could easily win that war.
Just carpet bomb the hell out of the entire country.
Gaza is only the size of Philadelphia, so they could probably do it in a couple of weeks.

But like I said before, the political will isn't there to do bomb Gaza.
You would kill about 2 million Palestinians.
No politician is prepared to do that.
But if they really wanted to, they could easily do it
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Israel tried that already.

It didn’t win them the war.
 
Tigerace117 said:
So, once again, prove it. Snakestretcher gave you multiple links demonstrating Israel’s behavior. Nobody cares that you don’t want to face up to what they did; you simply blindly denying it is not an argument.

Note that fanatical hatred of Muslims doesn’t make historical facts go away.
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It's not necessary for me to prove anything to you or Snakestretcher, especially when it comes to the established history of this region. I would encourage both of you to learn more about the region and the history of the present conflict. This denial, deflection, and name-calling isn't helpful.

Your suggestion that people who disagree with you have a 'fanatical hatred of Muslims' - is laughable. I would recommend you look at your own biases here.
 
snakestretcher said:
So, intelligence services from Israel's allies side with Israel. How shocking. Try harder, and then make excuses for all the other hospitals, refugee camps and 'safe zones' bombed by Israel. Or were those also 'misfiring' Hamas rockets? I guess like every Israeli excuse, every single destroyed building was a Hamas 'command and control' centre. Maybe you can point out which of these was a Hamas 'command and control centre', or a 'weapons store'.
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One of the reasons you have zero credibility is how you make sweeping statements about "Israel's side" and suggest nations support it with their intelligence reports. You know better than anyone that Israel has zero allies. The closest it has to an "ally" these days is the demented and completely unstable Trump who is no ally of anyone. Netanyahu threw away any or all goodwill he may have had in regards to the Gaza conflict many months ago so don't pull this crap that intelligence agencies of the West side with Israel. They do not and never have.
 
Luce said:
Okay, let's compare it to Desert Storm.
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The conflict in Gaza is unique. It is not a conventional war. Desert storm was a conventional military operation. Gaza was a response to terrorism by going after terrorists who had created a civilian infrastructure as a cover for these terrorists and to deliberately kill Palestinians as part of their campaign to turn the Western media against Israel. The deaths of Palestinians was and remains a deliberate political tool elaborately planned by Hamas.

As we speak Hamas continues to slaughter Palestinians precisely because the IDF has withdrawn.

People pretend Palestinians if left to Hamas could be an independent nation and ignore the facts and reality and that Hamas never wanted a Gaza state side by side Israel and will kill as many Palestinians as it can in addition to Jews worldwide to achieve its mandate which is a Muslim caliphate where Israel, the West Bank and Jordan are.

Hamas has signed NO peace treaty. It remains armed. It continues to slaughter Palestinians, attack the IDF and sent a Palestinian body to Israel posing it as a dead hostage.

Israel was able to get 20 hostages back alive. In return for that, Hamas remains at war and anyone who thinks there is a peace deal in effect is stupid. The demonstrative photo op for Trump like everything involving him is a lie. There was no peace treaty. There was a temporary halt to hostilities to allow him a photo op and Netanyahu an attempt to win votes again as he faces a court proceeding for his corruption and his lack of popularity. Netanyahu like Trump was desperate for a press op to focus away from his domestic problems no different than Trump with Epstein, ICE and failed tariffs.
 
snakestretcher said:
Nobody is endorsing Hamas. Please explain how a country with the most powerful military in the region is under "existential threat" from a small group of armed militants. The premise is risible.
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It is obvious that terrorists can offer a threat to the peaceful existance of a nation. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
 
Mika-El said:
The conflict in Gaza is unique. It is not a conventional war. Desert storm was a conventional military operation.
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Yes, which begs the question "why did they treat it like one?"

Have they not seen how well that worked out for the USA over the years?

Israel has already proven themselves capable of erasing an insurgency without killing off the locals. I am of course referring to the Munich terrorist attack and the Israeli response to that, which permanently put paid to Black September, at a total cost of one (1) civilian, a legitimate case of mistaken identity.

So why did they use a blunt object this time?
 
Luce said:
Yes, which begs the question "why did they treat it like one?"

Have they not seen how well that worked out for the USA over the years?

Israel has already proven themselves capable of erasing an insurgency without killing off the locals. I am of course referring to the Munich terrorist attack and the Israeli response to that, which permanently put paid to Black September, at a total cost of one (1) civilian, a legitimate case of mistaken identity.

So why did they use a blunt object this time?
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Thank you for understanding me. You ask questions I must ask and as a supporter of Israel in its fight against terrorism when people like you make this point I get it because I know many like you are not anti Israel but are asking what the phack happened? I think some of the answers can be given up to a point of what they did, then in terms of how long they kept going and what they were in fact doing o0n the ground as it went on and on I can not tell you. I personally have no problems what they did in Lebanon and Iran but in Gaza I have many questions and still do.
 
Desert Storm said:
Israel didnt kill 2 million civilians (or even tried to do that).
If they really wanted to, they could easily do it
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Short of Israel dropping a nuke on Gaza, they really don’t have a faster way to kill Palestinians, no.

Germany didn’t kill every Jewish person in Europe. Does that mean they didn’t commit genocide?
 
dcsports said:
It's not necessary for me to prove anything to you or Snakestretcher, especially when it comes to the established history of this region. I would encourage both of you to learn more about the region and the history of the present conflict. This denial, deflection, and name-calling isn't helpful.

Your suggestion that people who disagree with you have a 'fanatical hatred of Muslims' - is laughable. I would recommend you look at your own biases here.
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If you are going to claim someone’s historical facts are incorrect, then yes, you absolutely do need to provide evidence. This is really basic stuff dude.

Wailing “learn more about the region” when presented with multiple sources firmly demonstrates you can’t actually debunk any of what was pointed out, btw.

Crying about mean you think it is that people won’t take your completed unsupported opinion over the extreme well documented facts can’t change that either.

Your hatred for the Palestinians— which is undoubtedly rooted in their religion—is pretty freaking glaring dude ;)
 
Tigerace117 said:
Short of Israel dropping a nuke on Gaza, they really don’t have a faster way to kill Palestinians, no.

Germany didn’t kill every Jewish person in Europe. Does that mean they didn’t commit genocide?
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If Palestinians didnt want their country bombed to smithereens they shouldnt have attacked first and killed 1,200 Israelis
 
Desert Storm said:
If Palestinians didnt want their country bombed to smithereens they shouldnt have attacked first and killed 1,200 Israelis
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Israel was killing Palestinian civilians well before October 7th, so the idea the Palestinians “attacked first” is clearly false.
 
snakestretcher said:
Is that what Trump sold you-like he tells you he has brought peace to the Middle East and also destroyed ISIS?

thebulletin.org

Iran can still build nuclear weapons without further enrichment. Only diplomacy will stop it

Iran's stockpile of uranium enriched at 60 percent would be enough to make several relatively unsophisticated nuclear weapons. So why does nobody talk about it?
thebulletin.org thebulletin.org

www.poynter.org

Fact-checking President Donald Trump’s claims about peace, war and Iran after his Israel address - Poynter

From ‘eight wars in eight months’ to Iran’s nuclear sites, several of Trump’s statements went beyond the evidence
www.poynter.org www.poynter.org

news.sky.com

Even after US strikes, Iran may still have the ability to make a nuclear bomb

US strikes could have halted Iran's ability to enrich the uranium needed to make a viable nuclear weapon. But that's not the same as preventing its ability to make a nuclear bomb.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

www.solaceglobal.com

ISIS Resurgence: Levant Security at Risk in 2025

Explore how ISIS is resurging in 2025, exploiting instability, digital platforms, and global networks to expand its threat.
www.solaceglobal.com www.solaceglobal.com

I trust that 'naive' or 'gullible' aren't your middle names. I could be mistaken.
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Thanks for admitting that your post was based in ignorance, since nothing you posted disproves my statement.

I'm also not sure why you think nothing can expunge Hamas. Are they not mortal men, using nothing but common weapons? I think you are attempting to make a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like saying, "well, we thought we had wiped out the Nazis in WWII, but since Nazis still exist in various countries, there was never any point to fighting them because they were going to survive no matter what."
 
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snakestretcher said:
Israel also has rockets, or did you conveniently forget?
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HAMAS claimed the hospital was directly struck by an air strike.

We watched a rocket be fired by Palestinians, misfire, and strike the parking lot outside. This was confirmed by multiple outside nations, NGO observers, and every single satellite imagery provider in the world.

You claimed no one had said so except Israel. This was incorrect.

You claimed we had no way to know. This was incorrect.

Now you are suggesting it was a .... black flag op?


:rolleyes:


snakestretcher said:
Who 'debunked' the 83%?
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Entertainingly, the very article that first ran it :D

The argument put forth was:
  • Israel (like all nation states) tries to keep track of who is in the terrorist groups that target it
  • Israel had been able to match 17% of the confirmed dead thus far with names of people who it was tracking as being members of HAMAS
  • Ergo, 83% of the casualties are civilians
The problem of course being that:
  • Israel (like all nation states) is not an omniscient all-knowing God with perfect insight into who is on the payroll of groups that hate it
  • All casualties are not known by name
  • All casualties are not confirmed

So, instead of being - what it was, in fact - a story about a rather impressive granular-level ability to put together who was who in HAMAS during conventional combat operations..... it became a story pushing a narrative that fell apart as soon as someone pointed out that it was logically incoherent. It's like looking at a bunker full of dead germans on the beach of Normandy and deciding "Welp, unless we happen to recognize their faces and know their first names, all these chaps in Wehrmacht uniforms must be civilians". All it took was someone to stop for more than 30 seconds and read it critically. :D


That, of course, didn't stop it from getting picked up and repeated ad-nauseum by the anti-Israeli western press, who aren't so concerned about "facts" as they are The Narrative.
 
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