Hamas Says It Agrees to Release All Hostages in Gaza

[cpwill]

I’m saying they did not on the occasion which I referenced.

AH. So they do, in fact, do it, and you think they did not do it in one particular instance.

Which would mean that in fact they are indeed calling ahead and roof knocking, which would be contrary to the motivation of maximizing terror in the civilian population.

Which remains an irrelevant argument, since it is the militarization of those positions that requires their engagement, regardless of what "secret motive" we want to ascribe.

Instead they bombed a school, killing children.

Yes. That is what happens when you militarize schools, and it's one of the reasons why perfidy is so very, very, forbidden in the Laws of Armed Conflict.

It’s remarkable how every pro-Isreal commenter in this thread is incapable of debating honestly.

It is unfortunate that you are unable to distinguish between "does not agree with me" and "is dishonest".

Peace.

To you as well

 

[snakestretcher]

You refuse to acknowledge some of the most discredited, obvious, but damming mis/disinformation attempts in defense of HAMAS, instead retreating to a standard of "No one really knows"

But, of course, it is only when you wish to avoid dealing with something bad "your team" did in this realm that you insist on such a standard. Whenever you wish to make an accusation:



All of a sudden you think we can know things.

You're a partisan.

1. I don't have "team"; unlike some here I don't take sides based on propaganda lies and associated, easily debunked bullshit. You clearly do..
2. I have acknowledged anything I was asked to.
3, Where have I defended Hamas?
4. You're really bad at this debating business. Anything you claim or assert is so easily challenged a nine year-old can do so.

 

[Tigerace117]

* and they are full citizens, serve in the highest levels of government and live better, freer lives than Arabs do in any other Middle Eastern state.

Rhodesia had black soldiers.

That doesn’t make it not an apartheid state

 

[Tigerace117]

That's indeed what happens when you militarize them.

Israel’s pretty conclusively proven it doesn’t give a shit whether civilian targets are “militarized”; it will bomb them anyway.

 

[Spock]

Rape is till rape irrespective of who the perpetrators are. So why the "false equivalence"? Is murder different depending on who does the killing? Try harder.

You oppose rape but hold up Israeli rape as equivalent to, or worse than, Palestinian rape thus justifying rape.

 

[snakestretcher]

You oppose rape but hold up Israeli rape as equivalent to, or worse than, Palestinian rape thus justifying rape.

I did expose Israel's sex abuse, and the facts support me. Why do you object to facts you don't like reading?

 

[cpwill]

1. I don't have "team"

:snorts:

; unlike some here I don't take sides based on propaganda lies and associated, easily debunked bullshit. You clearly do..

Uh-huh.

So. Are you ready to acknowledge the widespread rape on Oct 7th, and that the al-Ahli Hospital was hit by a malfunctioning Palestinian rocket instead of (as HAMAS claimed) an IDF aerial strike?

2. I have acknowledged anything I was asked to.

You have not. Instead you insisted that all of a sudden no one could know anything, a position you then immediately abandoned in order to launch accusations

3, Where have I defended Hamas?

So. Are you ready to acknowledge the widespread rape on Oct 7th, and that the al-Ahli Hospital was hit by a malfunctioning Palestinian rocket instead of (as HAMAS claimed) an IDF aerial strike?

4. You're really bad at this debating business.

No doubt.

 

[Spock]

You said Israel relinquished control of Gaza. But that’s not true. The enclave was blockaded by Israel with people and goods not allowed in or out. That’s a siege.

Isreal also continued military operations many times in Gaza prior to 2023. I detailed them earlier but they usually involved mass civilian deaths, destruction of property and collective punishment.

The Gazans are desperate and have been for decades due to Israel’s oppression of them. You think any support for Hamas is a bad decision, they seemingly don’t agree.

Anyway, I’m finding this back and forth a bit tedious. Your points are basic and when I refute them, you come back with silly semantics. Peace.

Gaza was sufficiently autonomous to elect a government, have a functioning society with food, healthcare, educational system and law enforcement. Israel made efforts to reduce the risk of terrorism and the development of a military.
Essentially, if Gaza wanted peace, it was autonomous. However, it was not a fully constituted nation state because that would have allowed it to build a military force to eliminate Israel.

 

[cpwill]

You oppose rape but hold up Israeli rape as equivalent to, or worse than, Palestinian rape thus justifying rape.

The relevant question is:

Are incidents of rape considered to be crimes and punished by the system, or
Are incidents of rape considered to be legitimate, and allowed or even encouraged by the system.

 

[Spock]

I did expose Israel's sex abuse, and the facts support me. Why do you object to facts you don't like reading?

I do not support the Hamas invasion of Israel. That is the fact of this discussion.
Stop justifying terrorism.

 

[snakestretcher]

Israel’s pretty conclusively proven it doesn’t give a shit whether civilian targets are “militarized”; it will bomb them anyway.

Yes, they don't even bother making excuses any longer.

 

[Spock]

The relevant question is:

Are incidents of rape considered to be crimes and punished by the system, or
Are incidents of rape considered to be legitimate, and allowed or even encouraged by the system.

Rape is not the discussion of this thread.

 

[Tigerace117]

You oppose rape but hold up Israeli rape as equivalent to, or worse than, Palestinian rape thus justifying rape.

….what?

Rape committed by Israelis is absolutely as bad as rape committed by Palestinians. What are you talking about?

 

[cpwill]

Rape is not the discussion of this thread.

No, but it's a side topic that got brought up. @snakestretcher is trying to claim an equivalence exists because incidents of rape have occurred in Israeli armed forces as well as by members of HAMAS.

My point is that these are not equivalent, as the Israeli system criminalizes and punishes rape, whereas HAMAS' Islamist ideology believes that rape of non-Muslim women is simply a right afforded to the conqueror who can take her.

 

[snakestretcher]

I do not support the Hamas invasion of Israel. That is the fact of this discussion.
Stop justifying terrorism.

Israel first invaded Palestine in 1948, if you want to play this game. "Stop justifying terrorism" you say? I have never done so; you sound desperate to accuse me of things I never wrote.. Stop making excuses for Israel's ethnic cleansing and genocide, and dismissing facts you prefer not to read. Now go and do something useful; your towering intellect is clearly wasted here.

 

[snakestretcher]

No, but it's a side topic that got brought up. @snakestretcher is trying to claim an equivalence exists because incidents of rape have occurred in Israeli armed forces as well as by members of HAMAS.

My point is that these are not equivalent, as the Israeli system criminalizes and punishes rape, whereas HAMAS' Islamist ideology believes that rape of non-Muslim women is simply a right afforded to the conqueror who can take her.

Yes, why is rape committed by a Muslim different from a rape committed by a Jew? Answer me that; seeing as you clearly object to obvious equivalents?

 

[cpwill]

Yes, why is rape committed by a Muslim different from a rape committed by a Jew? Answer me that; seeing as you clearly object to obvious equivalents?

Single incidents can be comparable. When looking at systems, however, the relevant question is:

Are incidents of rape considered to be crimes and punished by the system, or
Are incidents of rape considered to be legitimate, and allowed or even encouraged by the system​

 

[Manc Skipper]

There is not. The mis/disinformation campaign around this conflict has been the widest reaching most impressive such campaigns that I've ever seen. For the average left- leaning Westerner, it must have been like being an average Russian when the Ukraine war kicked off; all your media feeds were suddenly selling the same dishonest picture of a vicious Other.

Israeli disinfo on steroids.

 

[L88]

They did have hospitals and schools but Israel blew them all up.

As did the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[cpwill]

Israeli disinfo on steroids.

LOL no - Israel has deeply lost the information fight in this conflict.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Single incidents can be comparable. When looking at systems, however, the relevant question is:

Are incidents of rape considered to be crimes and punished by the system, or​

Are incidents of rape considered to be legitimate, and allowed or even encouraged by the system​

Here in the UK we have had a week of front page national news about the appalling knife attack on a synagogue in Manchester. Two nights ago the local news reported for a couple of minutes on a firebomb attack on a mosque near Brighton, to widespread indifference in the national media.

 

[Decypher]

As did the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yes. For all the state of the art weaponry and supposed ROE that protects civilians, the death tolls in these conflicts are staggeringly high.

 

[cpwill]

Here in the UK we have had a week of front page national news about the appalling knife attack on a synagogue in Manchester. Two nights ago the local news reported for a couple of minutes on a firebomb attack on a mosque near Brighton, to widespread indifference in the national media.

Yeah - domestic terror attacks in which people are killed tend to get more media space than attacks in which people are not killed.

However, it is odd that you assume that this is somehow the result of.... what.... secret Israeli control? And they are controlling all news outlets in Britain to suppress news of non-lethal arson attacks on mosques v lethal attacks on synagogues?

And this is somehow their control of the media wrt the war in Gaza?


Like, what is the connective tissue here? What part of the Israeli government is secretly controlling British media to make them reduce coverage of non-lethal arson attacks on mosques relative to the coverage of lethal attacks on synagogues?


Or is this just the old "Hey, I'm not Anti-Semitic, I'm Just Anti-Zionist, but, The Jews = Israel and Israel = The Jews" formulation rearing it's head again?

 

[L88]

Gaza was sufficiently autonomous to elect a government, have a functioning society with food, healthcare, educational system and law enforcement. Israel made efforts to reduce the risk of terrorism and the development of a military.
Essentially, if Gaza wanted peace, it was autonomous. However, it was not a fully constituted nation state because that would have allowed it to build a military force to eliminate Israel.

This,^^^. In addition the Palestinian population has been giving Hamas aid, cover and their sons.

 

[cpwill]

Yes. For all the state of the art weaponry and supposed ROE that protects civilians, the death tolls in these conflicts are staggeringly high.

* until you compare them to other conflicts.