Half Truths...More Deceptive than Outright Lies...

[tosca1]

Total bullshit!

Those places don't really exist.

I can't believe how people buy into this fairy tale garbage.

I mean grow up.

Lol - what does following what you believe to be "total bullshit" makes you?
Especially so when you're getting triggered by these threads - why do you keep following them?


No one's forcing you to come into these threads and read!
Yet - you keep following and throwing a fit over them!

Who's behaving like such a baby?
You're the one who should..................................... grow up.

 

[Daisy]

Nothing in the Bible says they were created immortals.

Which is why they were capable of dying...everlasting life is NOT immortal life...immortals cannot die...they had the potential to live as long as they were obedient...that could've led to everlasting life...at some point down the road, perhaps God would've granted them immortality, as He did with Jesus Christ, after he proved faithful til death and was resurrected...

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9

"He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality." 1 Timothy 6:15,16

 

[gboisjo]

Lol - what does following what you believe to be "total bullshit" makes you?
Especially so when you're getting triggered by these threads - why do you keep following them?


No one's forcing you to come into these threads and read!
Yet - you keep following and throwing a fit over them!

Who's behaving like such a baby?
You're the one who should..................................... grow up.

Why do you continue to argue and post on these threads.

You don't own them, what I believe is just as valid as what you believe.

Your fits and temper tantrums are well documented.

 

[tosca1]

Why do you continue to argue and post on these threads.

You don't own them, what I believe is just as valid as what you believe.

Your fits and temper tantrums are well documented.

This is supposed to be a DISCUSSION board.
What's wrong about arguments? That's part of discussion!
I ARGUE. Meaning - I give arguments or rebuttals.

I don't just go posting on someone's threads, telling folks what they believe is bullshit (without giving any other rationales to back it up).............. and, telling them to grow up.
There are many threads that explain why religious people believe the way they do.

That's the irony!
That's what I see in your post.

 

[tosca1]

Which is why they were capable of dying...everlasting life is NOT immortal life...immortals cannot die...they had the potential to live as long as they were obedient...

Everlasting means eternal. It means, to last forever.
That is immortality.

that could've led to everlasting life...at some point down the road, perhaps God would've granted them immortality, as He did with Jesus Christ, after he proved faithful til death and was resurrected...

Those are speculations.

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9

"He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality." 1 Timothy 6:15,16

We're all going to be raised from the dead.
And when we do, we would be raised immortals.



1 Cor 15
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”




It's how and where we want to spend eternity - that's the choice we'll have to make.

 

[Daisy]

Everlasting means eternal. It means to last forever.!
That is immortality.

No...it's not...as proven in the scriptures I cited...do you understand that not even Jesus was always immortal but Jehovah granted him immortality after his resurrection?

 

[tosca1]

No...it's not...as proven in the scriptures I cited...do you understand that not even Jesus was always immortal but Jehovah granted him immortality after his resurrection?

You're talking about JESUS, a human being. God incarnate.


The Messiah had to die for our sins and conquer death through His Resurrection.
That's why of course, He had to be a mortal in order for Him to die and to Resurrect from the dead - to fulfill that promise to mankind.

 

[Daisy]

You're talking about JESUS, a human being. God incarnate.


The Messiah had to die for our sins and conquer death through His Resurrection.
That's why of course, He had to be a mortal in order for Him to die and to Resurrect from the dead - to fulfill that promise to mankind.

No, I am talking about Jesus AFTER his resurrection...pay attention...he did not switch back and forth from immortal to mortal to immortal again...immortals CANNOT die...

Someone or something that is immortal will live or last forever and never die or be destroyed.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/u...ective,considered gods and therefore immortal.

 

[tosca1]

No, I am talking about Jesus AFTER his resurrection...pay attention...he did not switch back and forth from immortal to mortal to immortal again...immortals CANNOT die...

He only had to become a mortal once!
As an immortal (GOD) - He became flesh (mortal), and died and Resurrected. He rose from the dead as an immortal.
That's it.

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9


Of course, AFTER His Resurrection - He' doesn't have to die anymore.
With His Resurrection, He had conquered death.
His mission has already been accomplished! Thus He said, "It's finished."

He won't die again! He doesn't have to.

Someone or something that is immortal will live or last forever and never die or be destroyed.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/immortal#:~:text=2.-,adjective,considered gods and therefore immortal.

Yes.
That's what I said.


And there is consistency with the verses.

Revelations 21
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

 

[Neomalthusian]

The devil knew about the tree, though.

The devil had known God................ since before it became a devil, it was an angel.

Of course, the devil knew that disobedience would displease God.
The devil doesn't have to know what God will do.

Again, in order to be able to accuse the snake (which we are only guessing was in fact Satan) of telling a half-truth to Eve, we would have to know that the snake knew more than what the snake said to Eve.

But even so, given that the punishment of disobedience was entire up to God, why would it be the snake's (or Satan's) responsibility to provide accurate information and ample warning to Eve? Why didn't God just provide the accurate information in the first place? '

Lastly, to accuse the snake/Satan of telling a half-truth and argue this is evil, by comparison it immediately calls into question God's statement to Adam/Eve. What the snake told Eve was more accurate and informative than what God told Adam and Eve.

No one has actually responded to these comments with anything coherent.

 

[Neomalthusian]

They hadn't eaten from the tree of knowledge - therefore, they wouldn't have known what disobedience is.
It was the moment they ate from the tree of knowledge that they had committed disobedience. They had used their free will to choose to disobey God.

And this is particularly bonkers. You're alleging that this God created two people to be too stupid to understand obedience vs. disobedience, but then condemned them to death for their first act of disobedience. That is so fundamentally evil.

God gave the consequence for disobedience. Death.
However, it doesn't mean physical death. (as shown, Adam and Eve didn't physically die the moment they ate the fruit).
God doesn't have to explain in details.

This is a thread that complains about half-truths. In post #1 Daisy claims "a half truth is a whole lie." What God told Adam and Eve was at best a half-truth. And you excuse it. "God doesn't have to explain in details." No, apparently he doesn't, and yet while Satan is accused of being evil related to telling half-truths, God can do the very same thing and worshippers don't care at all.

Nothing in Genesis remotely suggests he gave Adam and Eve good or accurate information. He misinformed them, misled them, lied by omission, whatever you want to call it, and then flew into an abusive, punitive rage the first time they didn't obey.

And yet for some reason we're supposed to worship this deity as omnibenevolent.

 

[tosca1]

Again, in order to be able to accuse the snake (which we are only guessing was in fact Satan) of telling a half-truth to Eve, we would have to know that the snake knew more than what the snake said to Eve.

The snake doesn't necessarily have to know more.
All it had to do was to get Adam and Eve to disobey God.

But even so, given that the punishment of disobedience was entire up to God, why would it be the snake's (or Satan's) responsibility to provide accurate information and ample warning to Eve? Why didn't God just provide the accurate information in the first place? '

Lastly, to accuse the snake/Satan of telling a half-truth and argue this is evil, by comparison it immediately calls into question God's statement to Adam/Eve. What the snake told Eve was more accurate and informative than what God told Adam and Eve.

No one has actually responded to these comments with anything coherent.

Read what I said again.

You're putting your own rule that God had to have explained more.
The point is: HE DIDN'T HAVE TO.


Being the Creator, all He had to do was to forbid something. Don't eat from that tree. Period.
No explanation necessary. And yet, He did tell them of the consequence of disobedience.


If the CREATOR wants to wipe out all His creation - He doesn't have to explain why to anyone either!
That's the prerogative of being God and Creator.

 

[tosca1]

And this is particularly bonkers. You're alleging that this God created two people to be too stupid to understand obedience vs. disobedience, but then condemned them to death for their first act of disobedience. That is so fundamentally evil.

This is a thread that complains about half-truths. In post #1 Daisy claims "a half truth is a whole lie." What God told Adam and Eve was at best a half-truth. And you excuse it. "God doesn't have to explain in details." No, apparently he doesn't, and yet while Satan is accused of being evil related to telling half-truths, God can do the very same thing and worshippers don't care at all.

Nothing in Genesis remotely suggests he gave Adam and Eve good or accurate information. He misinformed them, misled them, lied by omission, whatever you want to call it, and then flew into an abusive, punitive rage the first time they didn't obey.

And yet for some reason we're supposed to worship this deity as omnibenevolent.

No.
What God told Adam and Eve was the truth. The consequence of disobedience.
It did happen.
Nothing "half" about it.



Genesis 3
4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate,
and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.




Adam and Eve were tempted of becoming like God.
That's their motive for disobedience.
They've also had faith in what the devil said , that they will not die.........instead of heeding and trusting God.
They've used their critical thinking in making their choice.

 

[Daisy]

He only had to become a mortal once!
As an immortal (GOD) - He became flesh (mortal), and died and Resurrected. He rose from the dead as an immortal.
That's it.

“Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9


Of course, AFTER His Resurrection - He' doesn't have to die anymore.
With His Resurrection, He had conquered death.
His mission has already been accomplished! Thus He said, "It's finished."

He won't die again! He doesn't have to.






Yes.
That's what I said.


And there is consistency with the verses.

Revelations 21
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Bottom line...Jesus died...he was not immortal...now he is, so he will never be able to die again...if he was immortal before he came to earth, it would have been impossible for him to die at all...

 

[tosca1]

Bottom line...Jesus died...he was not immortal...now he is, so he will never be able to die again...if he was immortal before he came to earth, it would have been impossible for him to die at all...

He was immortal before He came to earth.
The Bible said so:



John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.




With God........................NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Daisy]

He was immortal before He came to earth.
The Bible said so:


John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

It does not say Jesus was immortal...

 

[tosca1]

It does not say Jesus was immortal...

You don't believe Jesus was The WORD?

 

[Daisy]

You don't believe Jesus was The WORD?

Sure I do...he was Jehovah's 1stborn...the title applies to Jesus during his pre-human existence as a spirit creature/during his ministry on earth as a perfect man/after his exaltation to heaven...Jesus was God’s Word of communication/Spokesman for conveying information and instructions to the Creator’s other spirit sons and to humans...the Scriptures prove that is true...

 

[tosca1]

Sure I do...he was Jehovah's 1stborn...the title applies to Jesus during his pre-human existence as a spirit creature/during his ministry on earth as a perfect man/after his exaltation to heaven...Jesus was God’s Word of communication/Spokesman for conveying information and instructions to the Creator’s other spirit sons and to humans...the Scriptures prove that is true...

Revelation 22
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”





Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; and 22:13. Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
Among the Jewish rabbis, it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end.

Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but the true God.

This statement of eternality could apply only to God.
It is seen especially in Revelation 22:13, where Jesus proclaims that He is “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

What does it mean that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega? What does it mean that Jesus is the beginning and the end?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[John3945]

Really? Then why did Hitler say that the people of the world are more likely to accept a big lie than a small one?

You believe there's a magical being in the sky. Hard to think of a bigger lie than that.

Many people far more intelligent than you or I believe in God

 

[Neomalthusian]

The snake doesn't necessarily have to know more.

Why does it have to be so hard to explain to you the plain meaning of words?

In order for the accusation that the snake told a deceptive half-truth to be valid, the snake had to know more than what the snake shared with Eve. Nothing in Genesis informs us about what the snake actually knew. Therefore the accusation that the snake told a half-truth is based on pure willful conjecture.

You're putting your own rule that God had to have explained more.
The point is: HE DIDN'T HAVE TO.

God can tell half-truths. As Daisy said in post #1, a half truth is a whole lie.

Being the Creator, all He had to do was to forbid something. Don't eat from that tree. Period.

Take notice of the thread topic. The thread topic is about half-truths, and what Daisy has said about half-truths in post #1.

No explanation necessary. And yet, He did tell them of the consequence of disobedience.

The consequence you're saying he told them about was very misleading and misinformative, based on anything that can be read from Genesis.

 

[Daisy]

Revelation 22
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”





Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; and 22:13. Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
Among the Jewish rabbis, it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end.

Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but the true God.

This statement of eternality could apply only to God.
It is seen especially in Revelation 22:13, where Jesus proclaims that He is “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

What does it mean that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega? What does it mean that Jesus is the beginning and the end?

www.gotquestions.org

Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy. (2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it. (5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989276

 

[Neomalthusian]

No.
What God told Adam and Eve was the truth. The consequence of disobedience.
It did happen.
Nothing "half" about it.

You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. A moment ago you said God doesn’t have to provide explanation or details, the next you’re saying God told the truth and there was nothing “half” about it. It’s nonsensical.

 

[tosca1]

Why does it have to be so hard to explain to you the plain meaning of words?

In order for the accusation that the snake told a deceptive half-truth to be valid, the snake had to know more than what the snake shared with Eve. Nothing in Genesis informs us about what the snake actually knew. Therefore the accusation that the snake told a half-truth is based on pure willful conjecture.

It told a half-truth when it said they certainly would not die. It was referring to physical death.
The snake was giving the impression that it knew!
It was trying to con them!

Whether it truly knew it will result in spiritual death instead or not, doesn't matter in the equation................because, its goal was to con Adam and Eve disobey God's stipulation.

If a dishonest man wants to make you buy this nice brand new cell phone, does it matter if he knows whether it was stolen by the guy who brought it to him?
Would he tell you it was stolen even if he actually knew?
His goal would still be the same - to sell it to you - whether he knows or not...............................right?

That was what the snake was doing: selling disobedience to Eve.

God can tell half-truths. As Daisy said in post #1, a half truth is a whole lie.

Take notice of the thread topic. The thread topic is about half-truths, and what Daisy has said about half-truths in post #1.

The consequence you're saying he told them about was very misleading and misinformative, based on anything that can be read from Genesis.

God on the other hand, did not tell a half-truth.
Indeed, the sin had IMMEDIATELY resulted in their death! SPIRITUAL death.
They were driven from Eden (separation from God), and were cursed to live a cursed life in a cursed world.

Death, is death.

 

[tosca1]

You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. A moment ago you said God doesn’t have to provide explanation or details, the next you’re saying God told the truth and there was nothing “half” about it. It’s nonsensical.

Emphasis on "explanation or details."

See post #399.