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Guns [W:884]

Guns

  • Total voters
    106
TurtleDude said:
no, the NRA lobbies on behalf of our rights under the second amendment.
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I own guns, I'm not a member of the NRA see no need for them.

TurtleDude said:
That in turn helps gun makers because if guns were banned, their market would decline substantially.
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Yes, that's capitalism for you.

TurtleDude said:
Gun makers have their own lobby that lobbies on behalf of the makers.
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The NRA lobbies on behalf of manufacturers, its far less concerned with a person's rights than it is with volumes of sales, commercial success of manufacturers, if you don't see that you've been hoodwinked.

It opposes the international Arms Trade Treaty which is concerned with regulating international trade in guns, it also supports "gun rights" in countries outside the USA.

This is clear evidence that their agenda is serving the manufacturers, lobbying about foreign countries and foreign trade is nothing to do with our constitution.

TurtleDude said:
And interestingly enough, we have seen cases of liberal democrats-ones who support the usual litany of gun control measures-support gun makers in their districts. For example, when Colt lost the M4 contract to Belgian based (with a plant in South carolina) FN, the congressman who had colt in his Connecticut district, filed a protest with the military. Smith and Wesson-which is based in left wing Massachusetts, saw the same help from its congressmen
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Politicians are politicians are politicians.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I own guns, I'm not a member of the NRA see no need for them.



Yes, that's capitalism for you.



The NRA lobbies on behalf of manufacturers, its far less concerned with a person's rights than it is with volumes of sales.

It opposes the international Arms Trade Treaty which is concerned with regulating international trade in guns, it also supports "gun rights" in countries outside the USA.

This is clear evidence that their agenda is serving the manufacturers, lobbying about foreign countries and foreign trade is nothing to do with our constitution.



Politicians are politicians are politicians.
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do you have any proof of your claims? for years I see people who are not NRA members, telling us who are, what the organization does. Those treaties are often seen, correctly, as attempts to subordinate our domestic second amendment rights to "international law"
 
TurtleDude said:
do you have any proof of your claims? for years I see people who are not NRA members, telling us who are, what the organization does.
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Which claim?

I'm a non member because I'm aware of what they do, so I'm no less informed than members.

TurtleDude said:
Those treaties are often seen, correctly, as attempts to subordinate our domestic second amendment rights to "international law".
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Funny, I and many others don't see it that way at all.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
Which claim?

I'm a non member because I'm aware of what they do, so I'm no less informed than members.



Funny, I and many others don't see it that way at all.
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of course you do not.
 
TurtleDude said:
of course you do not.
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Tell me, would you be supportive of legislation that would make it as easy to buy and own a fully automatic brand new machine gun as I can a 357 revolver? or do you think it better these fully automatic weapons remain more heavily regulated?
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I own guns, I'm not a member of the NRA see no need for them.



Yes, that's capitalism for you.



The NRA lobbies on behalf of manufacturers, its far less concerned with a person's rights than it is with volumes of sales, commercial success of manufacturers, if you don't see that you've been hoodwinked.

It opposes the international Arms Trade Treaty which is concerned with regulating international trade in guns, it also supports "gun rights" in countries outside the USA.

This is clear evidence that their agenda is serving the manufacturers, lobbying about foreign countries and foreign trade is nothing to do with our constitution.



Politicians are politicians are politicians.
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Assuming you are right and the NRA acts as a lobbying agency on behalf of manufacturers SOLELY for profit...can you name another agency that is as aggressively fighting federal and state gun laws that are designed to infringe n the rights of gun owners as the NRA is? Can you name another organization with the clout and resources needed to keep the leftists from ramming laws through congress like they have done in states? Can you name an agency that has fought as aggressively to have those ridiculous and restrictive gun laws passed by the states overturned?

Further...can you name an organization that is as involved in safety training and range operations as is the NRA?
 
VanceMack said:
Assuming you are right and the NRA acts as a lobbying agency on behalf of manufacturers SOLELY for profit...can you name another agency that is as aggressively fighting federal and state gun laws that are designed to infringe n the rights of gun owners as the NRA is? Can you name another organization with the clout and resources needed to keep the leftists from ramming laws through congress like they have done in states? Can you name an agency that has fought as aggressively to have those ridiculous and restrictive gun laws passed by the states overturned?

Further...can you name an organization that is as involved in safety training and range operations as is the NRA?
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Can you name another organization more responsible for the number of weapons that flood this country and that's less concerned with the effect of that?
 
MSgt said:
The thread obviously exists because of the latest mass shooting. Without Boulder, the gun issue would not be up front again.

As long as there are guns there will be shootings. As long as there are knives, there will be stabbings. Somebody else actually (and absurdly) declared that without guns, American deaths would double because we would simply beat each other to death, thus really arguing that we are a hopeless violent people that somehow stand aside from the rest of the human beings on the planet.

The issue is one of culture, not the existence of an instrument. (Though, a mass stabbing is far less deadly, which is what the rest of the world clearly shows). But we have the Second Amendment and that's the end of it. Might as well make the argument about our ****ed up aggressive culture. The very fact that so many mentally healthy American youths can simply decide to massacre unarmed strangers is the problem. Without that issue, routine homicide in America would be as much of a topic as it is anywhere else in the world. The rest of the world looks at Boulder or Sandy Hook, not just a homicide. But we have reduced it all to just homicide. I don't get this, especially considering that we do not see the gang banger and the serial killer as the same thing.
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I agree, except for one thing: Amendments can be changed. If gun advocates continue to use it as a magic shield to prevent any kind of meaningful control of gun ownership, the opinion that "that's the end of it" may change.
 
VanceMack said:
Assuming you are right and the NRA acts as a lobbying agency on behalf of manufacturers SOLELY for profit...can you name another agency that is as aggressively fighting federal and state gun laws that are designed to infringe n the rights of gun owners as the NRA is? Can you name another organization with the clout and resources needed to keep the leftists from ramming laws through congress like they have done in states? Can you name an agency that has fought as aggressively to have those ridiculous and restrictive gun laws passed by the states overturned?
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If the NRA do good, actually do serve the genuine interests of members then that's fine, I'm not criticizing them for those things.

VanceMack said:
Further...can you name an organization that is as involved in safety training and range operations as is the NRA?
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Again that may be true but what of it?

The NRA are opposed to safe gun storage in homes, you know the places where kids live and sometimes wander around and find loaded weapons and destroy lives?
 
As long as gun owners dig in and say they can and must own any weapon they want, there is very little benefit in asking them to contribute to the solution or debate. Now if they come around and say, you know what? I really don't need that AR or that semi-automatic x, y or z...then we can talk like adults who give a damn about gun violence. Until then though, the vast majority of us are going to have to pass laws that make sense for us.
 
Guns are a protected right. Infringement of any kind in an infringement upon our Constitutional rights. The protection of gun ownership should be given preferential treatment by our Government. Any politician that seeks to regulate guns is violating their oaths of office to protect and defend the Constitution.
 
Vadinho said:
As long as gun owners dig in and say they can and must own any weapon they want, there is very little benefit in asking them to contribute to the solution or debate. Now if they come around and say, you know what? I really don't need that AR or that semi-automatic x, y or z...then we can talk like adults who give a damn about gun violence. Until then though, the vast majority of us are going to have to pass laws that make sense for us.
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If we can? That's the problem.
 
Vadinho said:
As long as gun owners dig in and say they can and must own any weapon they want, there is very little benefit in asking them to contribute to the solution or debate. Now if they come around and say, you know what? I really don't need that AR or that semi-automatic x, y or z...then we can talk like adults who give a damn about gun violence. Until then though, the vast majority of us are going to have to pass laws that make sense for us.
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If gun owners agree with you and give up the guns you would require them to give up, you won't pass laws requiring them to give up those guns.
 
Not sure what is wrong with people that they think infringing on the rights of millions of Americans is somehow the answer to individual wrong doing.

if 10 of the 10 dead also had a gun chances are that there wouldn't be 10 dead, but the nut who did this surely would be.
 
Vadinho said:
As long as gun owners dig in and say they can and must own any weapon they want
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As long you want to start with strawman arguements, and as long as Dems want to outright ban rifles based on idiotic criteria and continue to try to define our rights based on what we "need," they're not going to get any cooperation from Republicans.
 
Tlrmln said:
As long you want to start with strawman arguements, and as long as Dems want to outright ban rifles based on idiotic criteria and continue to try to define our rights based on what we "need," they're not going to get any cooperation from Republicans.
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OK, tell us which gun in use today you are willing to ban then. You said I mentioned a strawman argument, prove it.
 
RF667799 said:
If gun owners agree with you and give up the guns you would require them to give up, you won't pass laws requiring them to give up those guns.
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Well, sometimes laws are needed because our memories are short and the gun lobby never gives up.
 
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