Guns In Schools [W:56]

[Indeed]

This is what I think:
All teachers and staff of all schools should be required to carry a loaded firearm on all schoolgrounds. How many kids are going to shoot up the school when there is a trained adult with a gun in every classroom? The only problem with my arguement as far as I can see is that most kids that shoot up their school don't care about their life in the first place. That said, every teacher having a gun would end it much sooner than if every teacher is hiding under their desk. If you can respond right there and then, less time spent waiting for the police and less students injured or killed. Or if they're a history teacher, they use crossbows. I'd love to see the video of the mass-murdering student hit in the back with a crossbow bolt.:mrgreen:

 

[Tigger]

This is already the SOP in Israel. Has been for quite a few years.

 

[Indeed]

I wasn't aware of that. Good for them! Looks like someone had the sense to make this policy instead of making sure that the only person within 10 miles that had a weapon is the crazed gunman.

 

[Tigger]

I wasn't aware of that. Good for them! Looks like someone had the sense to make this policy instead of making sure that the only person within 10 miles that had a weapon is the crazed gunman.

They had a single incident, on a school trip, and they made the policy change immediately.

 

[zstep18]

This is what I think:
All teachers and staff of all schools should be required to carry a loaded firearm on all schoolgrounds. How many kids are going to shoot up the school when there is a trained adult with a gun in every classroom? The only problem with my arguement as far as I can see is that most kids that shoot up their school don't care about their life in the first place. That said, every teacher having a gun would end it much sooner than if every teacher is hiding under their desk. If you can respond right there and then, less time spent waiting for the police and less students injured or killed. Or if they're a history teacher, they use crossbows. I'd love to see the video of the mass-murdering student hit in the back with a crossbow bolt.:mrgreen:

If a teacher is required to carry a firearm, does that mean the teacher is required to take gun safety classes and make sure they know how to use a firearm properly?

 

[Tigger]

If a teacher is required to carry a firearm, does that mean the teacher is required to take gun safety classes and make sure they know how to use a firearm properly?

In most states it would require the teacher to get a CCW permit. Of course in Illinois and Wisconsin these things don't exist, so the teachers there could not do so. In Vermont it wouldn't require anything other than the purchase of the firearm. Though it would also require the changing of laws about the possession of a firearm on school property in every state as well.

 

[zstep18]

In most states it would require the teacher to get a CCW permit. Of course in Illinois and Wisconsin these things don't exist, so the teachers there could not do so. In Vermont it wouldn't require anything other than the purchase of the firearm. Though it would also require the changing of laws about the possession of a firearm on school property in every state as well.

What if a teacher personally doesn't believe in using or owning a firearm?

 

[Thunder]

and then what do we do when the teacher ends up being the killer?

 

[Your Star]

Having firearms in the hands of people who aren't trained isn't a good idea. Even if you require them to train some teachers just wouldn't want too. And putting barriers in place that have nothing to do with a teachers ability to teach isn't a good idea since we need all the good teachers we can get, and this could make us lose some good teachers.

 

[Tigger]

What if a teacher personally doesn't believe in using or owning a firearm?

Assuming the teacher's union has signed off on the policy, they would have to move to a position that didn't require carrying, or lose their job.

 

[Indeed]

If a teacher is required to carry a firearm, does that mean the teacher is required to take gun safety classes and make sure they know how to use a firearm properly?

yes, but then again I think everyone should, of their on volition, learn to properly use a firearm.

And for zstep, the idea was that if you dont own one, the school provides one that you can keep in the back your desk even if you dont like looking at it. and if the school provides one, it must stay on school grounds at all times.

and for thunder, i have never heard of a teacher going postal. if you have, post a link.

 

[Tigger]

Having firearms in the hands of people who aren't trained isn't a good idea. Even if you require them to train some teachers just wouldn't want too. And putting barriers in place that have nothing to do with a teachers ability to teach isn't a good idea since we need all the good teachers we can get, and this could make us lose some good teachers.

You're absolutely right. You'll note that I didn't agree with the OP's suggestion. I just commented that it's being done in Israel. Personally, my preference would be to have armed security guards at every school.

 

[Your Star]

yes, but then again I think everyone should, of their on volition, learn to properly use a firearm.

And for zstep, the idea was that if you dont own one, the school provides one that you can keep in the back your desk even if you dont like looking at it. and if the school provides one, it must stay on school grounds at all times.

and for thunder, i have never heard of a teacher going postal. if you have, post a link.

Yeah it's not a good idea to have guns floating around a place where kids are able to easily access it.

 

[zstep18]

And for zstep, the idea was that if you dont own one, the school provides one that you can keep in the back your desk even if you dont like looking at it. and if the school provides one, it must stay on school grounds at all times.

And what happens when a teacher is sloppy and a child or teenager is able to get his or her hands on the teachers gun?

 

[Fruityfact]

I trust teachers with teaching
I don't trust people with guns-a moment of rage or something of the sorts and trying to prevent a problem has created a problem.

 

[jet57]

This is what I think:
All teachers and staff of all schools should be required to carry a loaded firearm on all schoolgrounds. How many kids are going to shoot up the school when there is a trained adult with a gun in every classroom? The only problem with my arguement as far as I can see is that most kids that shoot up their school don't care about their life in the first place. That said, every teacher having a gun would end it much sooner than if every teacher is hiding under their desk. If you can respond right there and then, less time spent waiting for the police and less students injured or killed. Or if they're a history teacher, they use crossbows. I'd love to see the video of the mass-murdering student hit in the back with a crossbow bolt.:mrgreen:

Well, I'm afraid I must tell you that your idea is simply ridiculous and says that you are more concerned with "guns and security" than you are education. It's a simple matter of placing all the different kids in an educational environment suited for them, from the hard line approach down to the soft rich kids schools. That's how you deal with school violence.

Education is not a priority in this country simply because it's not a priority.

 

[Your Star]

You're absolutely right. You'll note that I didn't agree with the OP's suggestion. I just commented that it's being done in Israel. Personally, my preference would be to have armed security guards at every school.

We had several armed cops patrolling my high school.

 

[Tigger]

We had several armed cops patrolling my high school.

There are two UNARMED local police officers who patrol the lunch room of my former high school on a daily basis now. We didn't have anything 20 years ago. Might as well have the rent-a-cops from the mall. Eventually Americans need to learn what SECURITY is; and that it's not a fun, happy, or pleasant thing to deal with; but that it IS a necessary part of life.

 

[Indeed]

Yeah it's not a good idea to have guns floating around a place where kids are able to easily access it.

I would suggest that every teacher must keep their desk locked at all times, but theres no way to enforce that and this would make it overly complicated. the fact that this may force some of the better teachers away does suck. you all have quite valid points, except thunder until that link is posted. no offence thunder. and the armed guard thing is a little... scary. the point was to make the existing personnel armed guards while not changing the learning experience. if every student sees just armed guards everywhere, they would be scared half insane half of the time and be more likely to go postal to try and end the very visable oppression. my idea was that the students can forget about the gun if it doesnt change much between the teacher and student.
oh, i know, maybe teachers could choose between different kinds of firearms or tazers. that may force less of the better teachers away.

ps. Im glad that no one has tried to go after the crossbow thing yet. I thought it was funny.

 

[Tigger]

Indeed, the main problem with your suggestion is that the vast majority of teachers either would not or could not comply with it. As I think back to my own schooling, I can only come up with 3 or 4 teachers that I would have been comfortable (today, as a gun-owning adult) having a gun on them. At least two of them would have left the profession before even touching a gun.

 

[jimbo]

I don't think having guns in the hands of anyone not comfortable with them is a good idea. Most of training is mindset, not the mechanics of the situation.

One possible solution is simply to allow concealed carry on school property, not require it. Those schooled with and comfortable with carry should be in sufficient to deter.

No gun should be left unattended around kids. Teachers required to carry are going to keep them in their purse or desk, and probably unloaded.

 

[Indeed]

I don't think having guns in the hands of anyone not comfortable with them is a good idea. Most of training is mindset, not the mechanics of the situation.

One possible solution is simply to allow concealed carry on school property, not require it. Those schooled with and comfortable with carry should be in sufficient to deter.

No gun should be left unattended around kids. Teachers required to carry are going to keep them in their purse or desk, and probably unloaded.

I think you are right. That seems to be the only way to please at least most of us.

 

[evangambit]

Wouldn't a better solution (psychologically easier for all involved) be to just have a police officer (or two?) assigned to each school? This keeps the number of firearms in the building to a more manageable (and secure) level. They are in the hands of those that are presumably the most comfortable using them and most trained in public defense. It also greatly shortens reaction time to shootings. I believe this is already implemented where I live.

 

[Locke and Load]

Wouldn't a better solution (psychologically easier for all involved) be to just have a police officer (or two?) assigned to each school? This keeps the number of firearms in the building to a more manageable (and secure) level. They are in the hands of those that are presumably the most comfortable using them and most trained in public defense. It also greatly shortens reaction time to shootings. I believe this is already implemented where I live.

Not necessarily. For one, it creates an atmosphere of fear and mistrust within a school when armed and uniformed personnel are walking around, which inhibits people's ability to learn. Secondly, it also makes the one, possibly two cops a giant walking target.

Think about it. If you were going to go postal on a school, and actually brought guns and ammo to school to kill people with, you're presumably going to kill as many as possible. Considering the fact that the cop would have absolutely no ability to know your intentions beforehand, meaning the killer is always going to have the element of surprise, the killer would probably walk up behind the cop, pull out his gun, kill said cop, then proceed on his rampage.

Obviously not effective. I believe allowing teachers and administrators who want to carry a gun on school property for the defense of the student body is reasonable. If someone is thinking of committing mass murder, do you really think another law about not being able to bring a gun onto school grounds will stop them? Of course not.

I read an interesting article awhile ago, can't find the link, but it was about a school that had a shooter inside of it. The assistant principle ran a quarter of a mile to his car (he had to park it that far away due to the gun regulations) and got the gun he had inside of his car, ran back and shot the shooter BEFORE police arrived, potentially saving the lives of innocent kids. And what did the police do when they came? Arrested him for having a gun on school property.

Is it just me or is there something fundamentally wrong with that story?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Not necessarily. For one, it creates an atmosphere of fear and mistrust within a school when armed and uniformed personnel are walking around, which inhibits people's ability to learn. Secondly, it also makes the one, possibly two cops a giant walking target.

Think about it. If you were going to go postal on a school, and actually brought guns and ammo to school to kill people with, you're presumably going to kill as many as possible. Considering the fact that the cop would have absolutely no ability to know your intentions beforehand, meaning the killer is always going to have the element of surprise, the killer would probably walk up behind the cop, pull out his gun, kill said cop, then proceed on his rampage.

Obviously not effective. I believe allowing teachers and administrators who want to carry a gun on school property for the defense of the student body is reasonable. If someone is thinking of committing mass murder, do you really think another law about not being able to bring a gun onto school grounds will stop them? Of course not.

I read an interesting article awhile ago, can't find the link, but it was about a school that had a shooter inside of it. The assistant principle ran a quarter of a mile to his car (he had to park it that far away due to the gun regulations) and got the gun he had inside of his car, ran back and shot the shooter BEFORE police arrived, potentially saving the lives of innocent kids. And what did the police do when they came? Arrested him for having a gun on school property.

Is it just me or is there something fundamentally wrong with that story?

Ok I see something really wrong with your story here. That being that all of the students would know that the staff is packing heat and all of the parents of the students would also know. At first I was going to say that the students would be extremely intimidated by the guns but then I realized that they parents would be outraged and the school would have no guns at all after all is said and done.

Makes you wonder though how these kids get past security at the front door huh? Its very rare today that anyone could get into the school and no one would be unaware of the intruders even if they are enrolled students. But I suppose if you have no kids you have never seen the changes made to school security. So it would be easy to assume that things are they used to be when you were in school.