Gun violence tied to ‘lifetime suicidal ideation and behavior’ among Black adults – study

[Maccabee]

OK, but why are gangs and violent crime more prevalent in those (blue?) “inner cites”?

They're prevalent in every major city, not just the blue ones.

 

[hecatmoggie]

In other words, you either lived with your parents rent free, or contributed to the rent while your parents also worked.

like every kid does yes I lived with my parents until my junior year ... my senior year I lived alone

Yes, you did. I'm by no means saying you could afford a Cadillac,

1980 Chevy Monza was my car

but a steady employment at a part time job with little bills to worry about isn't exactly dirt poor either.

I was in college, a 400 sf studio apt ... I remember taking a girl on a date one day and worried so much about the cost of the lunch because I knew I only had like $35 in my bank acct

I was very very poor until I went to college and at the time I was working at two McDonalds ... and eventually the double jobs and college hours beat me

Not to mention if you are of an older generation, you lived at a time where the minimum wage was tied to inflation and the dollar was worth more.

$3.35 was low as I remember being

That's simply not true. While a lot of our making is of our own doing, there's still way too much left up to pure luck.

No

Sure, sometimes there is luck ... but most of the time what we are is what we decides, chose, worked hard and made and those who have nothing? Its not luck that they are where they are

Money.

go earn some money and buy clothes

And to clarify, I'm at a point where I can afford some basic luxuries and creature comforts.

I bet you earned them all - didn't ya ?

It is factual.

Studies find evidence of systemic racial discrimination across multiple domains in the United States – Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies https://share.google/O920eYyVrFONkMwu6

that study is junk

"Data come from a nationally representative, probability-based telephone survey including 802 non-Hispanic black and a comparison group of 902 non-Hispanic white US adults, conducted January-April 2017."

https://share.google/O920eYyVrFONkMwu6

In what way?

if I told you my company was going to focus on hiring a lot more whites than blacks because of their white skin color ... you'd call that racist right? I'm not really even going to look at blacks ... just whites. Not many women either, mostly men.

that's ok, right ?

Yes, but we still have a system that disproportionately target minorities.

that's a liberal media lie

this is 2025 .... show me 3 instances right now of minorities being targeted

can you ?

 

[ttwtt78640]

They're prevalent in every major city, not just the blue ones.

Perhaps, but more large US cities are under demorat control.

Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

 

[Maccabee]

Perhaps, but more large US cities are under demorat control.

Party affiliation of the mayors of the 100 largest cities

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

This is a matter of correlation does not equal causation. Why a lot of major cities are blue had little to do with why cities in general suffer from high crime rates.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This is a matter of correlation does not equal causation. Why a lot of major cities are blue had little to do with why cities in general suffer from high crime rates.

That’s a large correlation. Perhaps, the anonymity and/or the snitches get stitches ‘culture’ helps reduce the chances of consequences.

 

[Maccabee]

like every kid does yes I lived with my parents until my junior year ... my senior year I lived alone

So again, in order for you to be making money at age 12, you had to have parents raising you in a relatively stable household (which requires money) in order to give you the opportunity.

1980 Chevy Monza was my car


I was in college, a 400 sf studio apt ... I remember taking a girl on a date one day and worried so much about the cost of the lunch because I knew I only had like $35 in my bank acct

I was very very poor until I went to college and at the time I was working at two McDonalds ... and eventually the double jobs and college hours beat me

Your point? At least you had a roof over your head, a car, and the ability to pursue higher learning.

$3.35 was low as I remember being


No

Sure, sometimes there is luck ... but most of the time what we are is what we decides, chose, worked hard and made and those who have nothing? Its not luck that they are where they are

Most of us are roughly two missed paychecks from living off the street, so yes, luck plays a major factor in our everyday lives.

go earn some money and buy clothes

Look, this dismissive attitude isn't how the world is, pure and simple. You got lucky in life and im glad it turned out for you, but some people, a lot of people actually, are simply not in the position to make more money and get themselves out of poverty. Which is why why should have programs to assist those who can't. To answer your dismissive take, when you live paycheck to paycheck, you likely don't have enough to set aside to buy nice clothes for you to dress up for the promotion board or seek a higher paying job, and that's just one aspect. There's a good chance you might have to take off work in order to attend the interview. If you have kids, you need to pay someone to watch them. The list goes on. You're either spending money or making less money when you try to make more money.

I bet you earned them all - didn't ya ?

No actually. Most of my luxuries i bought with my own money, but I've also been gifted some luxuries as well. Not to mention the fact that I grew up in a upper middle class household, didn't had to pay rent, and didn't left the house until i was in my early mid 20s.

that study is junk

"Data come from a nationally representative, probability-based telephone survey including 802 non-Hispanic black and a comparison group of 902 non-Hispanic white US adults, conducted January-April 2017."

https://share.google/O920eYyVrFONkMwu6

How exactly is it junk?

if I told you my company was going to focus on hiring a lot more whites than blacks because of their white skin color ... you'd call that racist right? I'm not really even going to look at blacks ... just whites. Not many women either, mostly men.

that's ok, right ?

If I ran a company that has a long history of only hiring white men, then I had a change of heart and policy stating that my company will hire more minorities who are just as qualified, would I be racist? If so, why?

that's a liberal media lie

Prove it.

this is 2025 .... show me 3 instances right now of minorities being targeted

can you ?

I provided a study listing ten.

 

[Maccabee]

That’s a large correlation. Perhaps, the anonymity and/or the snitches get stitches ‘culture’ helps reduce the chances of consequences.

Or it could simply be more people equals more opportunities to commit crime.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Or it could simply be more people equals more opportunities to commit crime.

There are certainly more potential victims who won’t know (recognize) the perp.

 

[hecatmoggie]

So again, in order for you to be making money at age 12, you had to have parents raising you in a relatively stable household (which requires money) in order to give you the opportunity.

no, in order for me to make money at 12-16 years old I went into the hayfield and hauled hay, I planted tree's one summer (15,000 pines), I picked up rocks, I trapped and sold furs in the wintertime, I did any job I could find in my area like in the city kids do with paper routes etc. I found jobs and I did them - choices, decisions, hard work

Your point? At least you had a roof over your head, a car, and the ability to pursue higher learning.

I made good decisions, good choices and I worked hard

nobody gave me any of that because of my gender, color of skin or sexual choices. I earned it all myself, my GPA, my ACT scores, I worked 60-70 hours a week at McDonalds stores and I took no student loans either.

Most of us are roughly two missed paychecks from living off the street, so yes, luck plays a major factor in our everyday lives.

no, luck has nothing to do with it

I was homeless one summer, lived in my truck and I still worked my McDonalds jobs (when I was in a dorm, not in my studio apt)

see, your arguments can be made to someone who's never been there - I've been there

Look, this dismissive attitude isn't how the world is, pure and simple. You got lucky in life

growing up in generational poverty is lucky? oh boy ... please tell me how lucky I had it !

and im glad it turned out for you, but some people, a lot of people actually, are simply not in the position to make more money and get themselves out of poverty

bullshit, that's a liberal lie. You can't show me one poor person who worked hard and made good decisions to escape poverty and they're still in it. Don't happen

. Which is why why should have programs to assist those who can't.

assist them how? you can't make people work hard or make good decisions

To answer your dismissive take, when you live paycheck to paycheck, you likely don't have enough to set aside to buy nice clothes for you to dress up for the promotion board or seek a higher paying job, and that's just one aspect.

I remember vividly those days. A job interview I had (that really put me on the path to my career) the guy looked me up and down and I said look, I don't have the experience the other candidate do but what I can tell you is nobody will work harder, I don't do drugs, don't smoke, I'm never late, I want to learn this. He said be there Monday (this was on Fri) and I said I need to give 2 weeks notice. He said take this or leave it, it starts Monday. Choose. .... and I did, I started on Monday

There's a good chance you might have to take off work in order to attend the interview.

make a good decisions

If you have kids, you need to pay someone to watch them. The list goes on. You're either spending money or making less money when you try to make more money.

whoa, having kids in poverty? not good choices and decisions is it ?

No actually. Most of my luxuries i bought with my own money, but I've also been gifted some luxuries as well. Not to mention the fact that I grew up in a upper middle class household, didn't had to pay rent, and didn't left the house until i was in my early mid 20s.

so you're talking about something you know nothing about ? poverty

How exactly is it junk?

they cherry picked a few hundred people for phone interviews - c'mon

If I ran a company that has a long history of only hiring white men, then I had a change of heart and policy stating that my company will hire more minorities who are just as qualified, would I be racist? If so, why?

we both know it'd be called racist

Prove it.

because every example you give in 2025 will be blacks being given preference over whites - never whites over blacks

I provided a study listing ten.

give me that link again, I don't see it please

 

[Maccabee]

no, in order for me to make money at 12-16 years old I went into the hayfield and hauled hay, I planted tree's one summer (15,000 pines), I picked up rocks, I trapped and sold furs in the wintertime, I did any job I could find in my area like in the city kids do with paper routes etc. I found jobs and I did them - choices, decisions, hard work


I made good decisions, good choices and I worked hard

nobody gave me any of that because of my gender, color of skin or sexual choices. I earned it all myself, my GPA, my ACT scores, I worked 60-70 hours a week at McDonalds stores and I took no student loans either.


no, luck has nothing to do with it

I was homeless one summer, lived in my truck and I still worked my McDonalds jobs (when I was in a dorm, not in my studio apt)

see, your arguments can be made to someone who's never been there - I've been there



growing up in generational poverty is lucky? oh boy ... please tell me how lucky I had it !



bullshit, that's a liberal lie. You can't show me one poor person who worked hard and made good decisions to escape poverty and they're still in it. Don't happen


assist them how? you can't make people work hard or make good decisions


I remember vividly those days. A job interview I had (that really put me on the path to my career) the guy looked me up and down and I said look, I don't have the experience the other candidate do but what I can tell you is nobody will work harder, I don't do drugs, don't smoke, I'm never late, I want to learn this. He said be there Monday (this was on Fri) and I said I need to give 2 weeks notice. He said take this or leave it, it starts Monday. Choose. .... and I did, I started on Monday


make a good decisions


whoa, having kids in poverty? not good choices and decisions is it ?



so you're talking about something you know nothing about ? poverty


they cherry picked a few hundred people for phone interviews - c'mon


we both know it'd be called racist



because every example you give in 2025 will be blacks being given preference over whites - never whites over blacks



give me that link again, I don't see it please

We can go back and forth on whether or not every single US citizen have the same fair shot at life, but you're distracting from my original point. The driving factor of crime is poverty, since we don't want to blame the gun violence on the ease of firearm accessibility. However, when I stated that we need more avenues out of poverty, the thing you more or less agreed is the driving force of violent crime, you object because apparently helping the poor and needy is wrong. This "do nothing" stance in the face of what we can plainly see can only last so long before someone does something drastic that everyone dislikes.

 

[ttwtt78640]

We can go back and forth on whether or not every single US citizen have the same fair shot at life, but you're distracting from my original point. The driving factor of crime is poverty, since we don't want to blame the gun violence on the ease of firearm accessibility. However, when I stated that we need more avenues out of poverty, the thing you more or less agreed is the driving force of violent crime, you object because apparently helping the poor and needy is wrong. This "do nothing" stance in the face of what we can plainly see can only last so long before someone does something drastic that everyone dislikes.

The idea that someone is “too poor” to afford clothing appropriate for a job interview, yet can afford a gun (or two) & ammo, is a bit much.

 

[Maccabee]

The idea that someone is “too poor” to afford clothing appropriate for a job interview, yet can afford a gun (or two) & ammo, is a bit much.

They often can't. That's why you can't leave your firearm in your vehicle.

 

[ttwtt78640]

They often can't. That's why you can't leave your firearm in your vehicle.

Breaking into vehicles isn’t a good plan for getting ahead in life.

 

[hecatmoggie]

We can go back and forth on whether or not every single US citizen have the same fair shot at life, but you're distracting from my original point. The driving factor of crime is poverty,

if that were true, knowing the below numbers, whites would be committing twice the violence as blacks and hispanics more than blacks too ....

its not like that is it ?

• African American: 8.5 million people in poverty, representing a 19.5% poverty rate.
• White (Non-Hispanic): 15.9 million people in poverty, representing an 8.2% poverty rate.
• Hispanic: 10.4 million people in poverty, representing a 17.0% poverty rate.
• Native American: 600,000 people in poverty, representing a 23.0% poverty rate.

since we don't want to blame the gun violence on the ease of firearm accessibility.

there is no such thing as gun violence, that's liberal media lies

However, when I stated that we need more avenues out of poverty, the thing you more or less agreed is the driving force of violent crime, you object because apparently helping the poor and needy is wrong. This "do nothing" stance in the face of what we can plainly see can only last so long before someone does something drastic that everyone dislikes.

then by the numbers above we need to help whites out twice as much

right ?

 

[Maccabee]

Breaking into vehicles isn’t a good plan for getting ahead in life.

It's not, but hawking a stolen firearm for $200 could buy them groceries for the week.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's not, but hawking a stolen firearm for $200 could buy them groceries for the week.

Having more stolen guns in the neighborhood is better or all concerned.

 

[Maccabee]

if that were true, knowing the below numbers, whites would be committing twice the violence as blacks and hispanics more than blacks too ....

First off, it doesn't have to be completely true for it to have an affect on crime. A driving or even being THE driving factor doesn't exclude other contributing factors. Second, other factors, that I've already mentioned also comes into play (crime being an inner city thing and minorities tend to live in inner cities due to remnants of Jim Crow laws and racist policies sticking them there) and it's not always a raw numbers thing.

its not like that is it ?

• African American: 8.5 million people in poverty, representing a 19.5% poverty rate.
• White (Non-Hispanic): 15.9 million people in poverty, representing an 8.2% poverty rate.
• Hispanic: 10.4 million people in poverty, representing a 17.0% poverty rate.
• Native American: 600,000 people in poverty, representing a 23.0% poverty rate.

Your own graph states that minorities represent the vast majority of those at the poverty rate.

there is no such thing as gun violence, that's liberal media lies

It's violence perpetrated by firearms.

then by the numbers above we need to help whites out twice as much

right ?

so you're in favor of things like streamlining welfare, raising the minimum wage, easier access to government assistance, better access to food assistance, universal healthcare?

 

[Maccabee]

Having more stolen guns in the neighborhood is better or all concerned.

My point is, if you want to solve the gun violence without restricting access to firearms, then you need to address the socioeconomic ailments that plague our nation. The big factor is poverty. If we create easier avenues out of poverty, then we lower the crime. We lower the crime, we lower gun deaths.

 

[rahl]

They often can't. That's why you can't leave your firearm in your vehicle.

Of course you can leave your firearm in your vehicle.

 

[ttwtt78640]

My point is, if you want to solve the gun violence without restricting access to firearms, then you need to address the socioeconomic ailments that plague our nation. The big factor is poverty. If we create easier avenues out of poverty, then we lower the crime. We lower the crime, we lower gun deaths.

If someone thinks getting a job is too hard then try it with a felony record. Paying folks some UBI/BIG (‘living wage’ amount?) to try to prevent (reduce?) crime should be tried by some big (blue?) city, just to allow all to see what happens.

 

[CLAX1911]

If someone thinks getting a job is too hard then try it with a felony record. Paying folks some UBI/BIG (‘living wage’ amount?) to try to prevent (reduce?) crime should be tried by some big (blue?) city, just to allow all to see what happens.

I think this is actually a good experiment because these people believe this like it's religious. That poverty causes crime and they have it backwards from causes poverty.

 

[Maccabee]

If someone thinks getting a job is too hard then try it with a felony record. Paying folks some UBI/BIG (‘living wage’ amount?) to try to prevent (reduce?) crime should be tried by some big (blue?) city, just to allow all to see what happens.

I'll leave you with this.

The Relationship Between Poverty and Crime https://share.google/zTnvXZAx3mltjPHJO

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'll leave you with this.

The Relationship Between Poverty and Crime https://share.google/zTnvXZAx3mltjPHJO

An ad for a school is nice, but advocating rewarding (in lieu of incarceration) criminal behavior is nuts.

 

[Maccabee]

An ad for a school is nice, but advocating rewarding (in lieu of incarceration) criminal behavior is nuts.

Do you have a study showing that punishment for punishment sake reduces crime better than rehabilitation?

 

[hecatmoggie]

First off, it doesn't have to be completely true for it to have an affect on crime.

so changing what you said - ok, at least you're willing to do that, most are not, I appreciate that

A driving or even being THE driving factor doesn't exclude other contributing factors.

culture is a driving factor, single parent households are a driving factor, inner city gangs are, drugs ... we can go on and on

but poverty? unless you can show the same % of all skin colors go criminal because of poverty (which they don't) they you can't really use that as a main factor of it'd affect everyone the same

Second, other factors, that I've already mentioned also comes into play (crime being an inner city thing and minorities tend to live in inner cities due to remnants of Jim Crow laws and racist policies sticking them there) and it's not always a raw numbers thing.

I agree the Democrats in the first couple of hundreds of years really hurt blacks ... good thing Republican's stepped up and passed the Civil Rights bills

Your own graph states that minorities represent the vast majority of those at the poverty rate.

combined you're right

now, back to my question - twice as many whites in poverty = twice as many whites committing crimes (since you said poverty was the reason behind crimes or one of the main ones) right ? no ,.... not twice as many whites committing crimes is it ?

It's violence perpetrated by firearms.

guns don't perpetrated anything

people commit violence - the weapon used has nothing to do with it

so you're in favor of things like streamlining welfare, raising the minimum wage, easier access to government assistance, better access to food assistance, universal healthcare?

to elevate all the whites out of poverty I'd want to give them all those things because they're white ? why would I do that ?