Gun geeks flip out over suspension of preschooler (1 Viewer)

[Slyfox696]

How about this - the "crime" should never have been a crime. If using pretend guns had been a expellable offense when I was 4 years old, 2nd grade would have been all female.

I've already addressed this position in previous posts. Here is one such post (there are others):

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-...-suspension-preschooler-3.html#post1067032842

 

[Rucker61]

I've already addressed this position in previous posts. Here is one such post (there are others):

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-...-suspension-preschooler-3.html#post1067032842

I fail to see where you commented on the existence of any rule about playing guns. Is that, in your opinion, a good rule or a bad rule? I haven't seen any other discipline concerns from the school other than playing guns and this piece of brass.

 

[Slyfox696]

I fail to see where you commented on the existence of any rule about playing guns.

It's there, when I talk about why a school has to have such a policy. Specifically:

No, it's not. Not in today's schools. Laws, insurance, lawsuits, violence, etc...all play a factor. That's the point.

Now, if you want to say it is silly society has progressed to the point where parents are allowed to sue schools for ridiculous reasons (for example, my mother once dealt with a lawsuit from a woman who claimed we discriminated against her because we didn't allow her supposed support dog (which she didn't need) to go through the cafeteria while students were eating lunch...the amount of time and money our district had to spend on that frivolous lawsuit (which got tossed eventually) was ridiculous) and that it's silly our society has progressed to the point where schools have to worry about people coming in and committing gun violence, then fine. I have no problem with that.

But this school didn't create this society, they merely have to operate within it.

Is that, in your opinion, a good rule or a bad rule?

It doesn't matter. That's the point I'm making. It doesn't matter if I think it is a good rule or bad rule, if the rule was created in a vacuum. The fact is nothing happens in a vacuum and many rules are created to deal with legal and ethical issues.

As I said in that post, if you wish to lament society has evolved to this point, fine. Do I wish it were so that people weren't always so quick to sue, that people were more supportive of schools and that gun violence, particularly gun violence in schools, didn't exist? Absolutely, and if all of those conditions were true, then I'd see no problem with a child playing pretend. But those things aren't true, so schools have to craft rules in response to modern day society and law.

 

[chromium]

I went to private school. And the guys who brought guns kept them in their trucks. Why bring them inside? It was so they could deer hunt after school. I wasn't a deer hunter so I never did. My point was that treating spent brass as a loaded gun is silly given the number of kids who hunt. You can start at 16 by yourself.



Right thing to do. But it isn't a spent casing.



High school SHOULD be fun time for you. You are a kid. You should be enjoying yourself. Learning isn't supposed to be miserable. At some point our system forgot that college is supposed to be the stressful time when you mature into an adult.


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i don't know about back then, but for a mildly intelligent person, college these days is way more fun, because you're not sitting next to immature psychotics who have no purpose there except to waste time and **** with everyone else. In college you're only sitting there a 10-15 hours a week. You don't have to eat lunch or do "study hall" or a class presentation with the assholes. Try acting like that guy asking about sex with dead horse in a premed or business class and you'll see what i mean. Not only the professor but everyone else would've told that guy to **** off and reported it to the dean. Compare that to just a few months earlier in life, when that bastard would open his mouth to me the teacher would just look up and say nothing. Or many right in class would make gay jokes all the time or threaten the black kids "KKK you're gonna die" or draw swastikas on their arm, and fights would break out and NOTHING IS DONE. And if i had reported the gun comment in college a SWAT team would've shown up.

High school does such a piss poor job separating the malcontents from those who actually enjoy learning that it may as well be a prison (those who want to rehabilitate, until after getting their ass whooped by the bullies and gangs, they figure out it's impossible)

 

[blackjack50]

i don't know about back then, but for a mildly intelligent person, college these days is way more fun, because you're not sitting next to immature psychotics who have no purpose there except to waste time and **** with everyone else. In college you're only sitting there a 10-15 hours a week. You don't have to eat lunch or do "study hall" or a class presentation with the assholes. Try acting like that guy asking about sex with dead horse in a premed or business class and you'll see what i mean. Not only the professor but everyone else would've told that guy to **** off and reported it to the dean. Compare that to just a few months earlier in life, when that bastard would open his mouth to me the teacher would just look up and say nothing. Or many right in class would make gay jokes all the time or threaten the black kids "KKK you're gonna die" or draw swastikas on their arm, and fights would break out and NOTHING IS DONE. And if i had reported the gun comment in college a SWAT team would've shown up.

High school does such a piss poor job separating the malcontents from those who actually enjoy learning that it may as well be a prison (those who want to rehabilitate, until after getting their ass whooped by the bullies and gangs, they figure out it's impossible)

Dude. The projection. You really need to tone it back. Not every school, public or private...is like that. It might be rough if you are sitting in a school in a rough neighborhood, but that isn't reality for most kids.

As for the "malcontents," those are kids too. And they deserve an education as much as you did. If not more so. Not everyone goes to college. Nor should they. Trade jobs are a wonderful path. With good salaries too. Colleges are overpriced for what you get. And mostly filled with pointless wastes of time. All those course requirements for degrees that don't have a job market?

So no. Being a kid is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to learn how to be a productive adult. And that means you need to be properly educated. And that starts at home. And it flows into school. College is about your adulthood.


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[Crimefree]

It's there, when I talk about why a school has to have such a policy. Specifically:



It doesn't matter. That's the point I'm making. It doesn't matter if I think it is a good rule or bad rule, if the rule was created in a vacuum. The fact is nothing happens in a vacuum and many rules are created to deal with legal and ethical issues.

As I said in that post, if you wish to lament society has evolved to this point, fine. Do I wish it were so that people weren't always so quick to sue, that people were more supportive of schools and that gun violence, particularly gun violence in schools, didn't exist? Absolutely, and if all of those conditions were true, then I'd see no problem with a child playing pretend. But those things aren't true, so schools have to craft rules in response to modern day society and law.

Or knee jerk reactions to what they do not understand. A pretty dismal situation for an educator.

 

[Slyfox696]

Or knee jerk reactions to what they do not understand. A pretty dismal situation for an educator.

You seemingly have no idea what happened, nor have you seemingly taken the time to understand the argument I've put forth.

Why did you post then?

 

[chromium]

Dude. The projection. You really need to tone it back. Not every school, public or private...is like that. It might be rough if you are sitting in a school in a rough neighborhood, but that isn't reality for most kids.

As for the "malcontents," those are kids too. And they deserve an education as much as you did. If not more so. Not everyone goes to college. Nor should they. Trade jobs are a wonderful path. With good salaries too. Colleges are overpriced for what you get. And mostly filled with pointless wastes of time. All those course requirements for degrees that don't have a job market?

So no. Being a kid is supposed to be fun. You are supposed to learn how to be a productive adult. And that means you need to be properly educated. And that starts at home. And it flows into school. College is about your adulthood.


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No i have data to back up anything, unlike you i suspect. Like over half of bullies end up in jail before age 25 and allowing them to remain in the same room with their victims only drags others down with them. They aren't going on to a trade job either. Who the **** would hire and keep someone like that? The military possibly, that's about it. A lot of the crazies can't hack it in boot camp either though.

But i just described half of america, the public schools in rural areas that you link to gun nuttery. That is in fact the reality, where 90% of kids just don't want to learn. They want to **** around on their phone, get drunk and throw things. There needs to be a place the other 10% can learn in peace, you know, the purpose of education. It's a complete embarrassment that home schooling produces better results than middle/high school, yet you call *college* the waste of time and $?

Productive adult? That certainly doesn't begin until college or the workforce. Now you've got to pay attention and learn and contribute to projects, or you fail quickly. To say college is "mostly" a waste of time and $, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and i suspect it's you who's projecting. It's not my fault you didn't get into a top program, with generous funding, rigorous requirements in every class, and a degree that's highly respected

 

[Crimefree]

No i have data to back up anything, unlike you i suspect. Like over half of bullies end up in jail before age 25 and allowing them to remain in the same room with their victims only drags others down with them. They aren't going on to a trade job either. Who the **** would hire and keep someone like that? The military possibly, that's about it. A lot of the crazies can't hack it in boot camp either though.

But i just described half of america, the public schools in rural areas that you link to gun nuttery. That is in fact the reality, where 90% of kids just don't want to learn. They want to **** around on their phone, get drunk and throw things. There needs to be a place the other 10% can learn in peace, you know, the purpose of education. It's a complete embarrassment that home schooling produces better results than middle/high school, yet you call *college* the waste of time and $?

Productive adult? That certainly doesn't begin until college or the workforce. Now you've got to pay attention and learn and contribute to projects, or you fail quickly. To say college is "mostly" a waste of time and $, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and i suspect it's you who's projecting. It's not my fault you didn't get into a top program, with generous funding, rigorous requirements in every class, and a degree that's highly respected

Since the schools are run by government and teachers hamstrung by idiot laws that allow no sensible punishment beyond expulsion or suspension what were you expecting. These miscreant know they can do virtually anything and nothing will happen. So who taught them that? Go blow your fuse at the culprits. People in the military do not behave like that, nor did kids in bygone years. Who screwed it up?

 

[Crimefree]

You seemingly have no idea what happened, nor have you seemingly taken the time to understand the argument I've put forth.

Why did you post then?

Because you seemingly do not comprehend

No, it's not. Not in today's schools. Laws, insurance, lawsuits, violence, etc...all play a factor. That's the point.

Or knee jerk reactions to what they do not understand. A pretty dismal situation for an educator.

 

[blackjack50]

No i have data to back up anything, unlike you i suspect. Like over half of bullies end up in jail before age 25 and allowing them to remain in the same room with their victims only drags others down with them. They aren't going on to a trade job either. Who the **** would hire and keep someone like that? The military possibly, that's about it. A lot of the crazies can't hack it in boot camp either though.

But i just described half of america, the public schools in rural areas that you link to gun nuttery. That is in fact the reality, where 90% of kids just don't want to learn. They want to **** around on their phone, get drunk and throw things. There needs to be a place the other 10% can learn in peace, you know, the purpose of education. It's a complete embarrassment that home schooling produces better results than middle/high school, yet you call *college* the waste of time and $?

Productive adult? That certainly doesn't begin until college or the workforce. Now you've got to pay attention and learn and contribute to projects, or you fail quickly. To say college is "mostly" a waste of time and $, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and i suspect it's you who's projecting. It's not my fault you didn't get into a top program, with generous funding, rigorous requirements in every class, and a degree that's highly respected

As a former and future teacher...


Wow

You have just written off kids based on your bad experiences. Really? That is truly sad. Why not just put them to death at 16 if they are a bully? Right? You really have never worked with kids have you?

As for home schooling...no. It doesn't always produce better results. Sometimes it creates emotionally stunted individuals. People who may be able to survive, but they don't thrive as an adult. They can't handle true adversity. They can't handle disagreements and not getting your own way. That kind of thing. And I'm not knocking home school either. My girlfriend was home schooled. She excelled. But it didn't work for her brother. Someone you have written off because he is a kid who enjoys having fun. Someone going into trade school.

Anyway. The only reason home school works is because of the same reason that inner city or poor schools fail: home life. Good parents make good kids. Period. You wouldn't be touting home school for a kid whose mother is a crackhead. Would you? And would you even show understanding to the kid with violent tendencies when he watches his mother get abused by her boyfriend (dad isn't around), who she in turn abuses his siblings and him?

Try walking in their shoes man.



And no. I wasn't projecting. My degree works for what I want to do. Teaching. But do you really think I needed to take classes on astronomy? I won't be teaching it. What about the classes I had to take on biology? Grew up in an animal hospital and I made straight as in high school. Didn't learn squat there. Weather? I could go right back through my college transcript and probably cut out a few thousand dollars worth of wasted time, book, and scholarship money.

Not ALL college classes are necessary. Period. Some are a waste of time.


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[Aberration]

I have carried a loaded magazine through an airport x-ray. Result? Nothing. I can legally carry a handgun on school grounds. These rules do not set these kids up to deal with the real world.


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[chromium]

As a former and future teacher...


Wow

You have just written off kids based on your bad experiences. Really? That is truly sad. Why not just put them to death at 16 if they are a bully? Right? You really have never worked with kids have you?

As for home schooling...no. It doesn't always produce better results. Sometimes it creates emotionally stunted individuals. People who may be able to survive, but they don't thrive as an adult. They can't handle true adversity. They can't handle disagreements and not getting your own way. That kind of thing. And I'm not knocking home school either. My girlfriend was home schooled. She excelled. But it didn't work for her brother. Someone you have written off because he is a kid who enjoys having fun. Someone going into trade school.

Anyway. The only reason home school works is because of the same reason that inner city or poor schools fail: home life. Good parents make good kids. Period. You wouldn't be touting home school for a kid whose mother is a crackhead. Would you? And would you even show understanding to the kid with violent tendencies when he watches his mother get abused by her boyfriend (dad isn't around), who she in turn abuses his siblings and him?

Try walking in their shoes man.



And no. I wasn't projecting. My degree works for what I want to do. Teaching. But do you really think I needed to take classes on astronomy? I won't be teaching it. What about the classes I had to take on biology? Grew up in an animal hospital and I made straight as in high school. Didn't learn squat there. Weather? I could go right back through my college transcript and probably cut out a few thousand dollars worth of wasted time, book, and scholarship money.

Not ALL college classes are necessary. Period. Some are a waste of time.


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i didn't say they should be put to death god, i said they should be *separated* from their victims who want to learn in peace

i didn't say home school always works either, i said *on average* for those who learn this way. If you remember the old poster gathomas, he was home schooled and damn did it show in a bad way. But see, i defer to data, again unlike you. They have *on average* better academic and career outcomes. Socially is difficult to measure obviously. My point is this should not be the case if K-12 works

Walking in their shoes? I've seen abuse plenty. My best friend (or rather, he considered me his best friend) growing up lived with abusive stepdads. I've seen and experienced it all man, except murder

It seems to escape you that those required classes are in part to establish a student's interests. There's a reason the average student changes majors like 3x, which is K-12 fails pretty bad at pushing kids to hone in on their skills and passions. So they have to do it in college, where suddenly say a biology class is vastly different from HS. So you decide that's not for you, maybe you'll try chemistry since that too is required for a BS degree. The only class i found to be a total waste was intro writing, since it resembled HS and all except the foreign kids could write adequately for most anything except at PhD level. And how many go into that, 1/100? Everything else either built on previous class work or taught some useful skills. Then there are about 30 credits you can take at your discretion, such as in your major, for a 2nd major (some even do a 3rd), or god forbid, you just simply find a class intriguing. A lot like taking a cooking class, or whatever. But you need to not have a **** attitude to make it work

I hate to break it to you, but teaching a particular subject at the K-12 level is not the end all purpose of college education. There's a damn school of architecture here, an engineering school, a pharmacy school, a nursing school etc etc. Maybe some will agree with you that there are some unnecessary classes even within those, but no college can design curriculum and certify a degree that will be respected by employers and graduate schools around *every* individual's preferences. Just like a pilot has to log 1000 hours or whatever, even if he only needs 800. But if you're hellbent on it, yes, there is an option to individual craft a major. Good luck explaining and marketing it though

 

[Crimefree]

I have carried a loaded magazine through an airport x-ray. Result? Nothing. I can legally carry a handgun on school grounds. These rules do not set these kids up to deal with the real world.


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In fact they stunt growth and when fantasy play vital to children is treated like a disease and punished by idiots closer to Neanderthals than well balanced adults there is a problem. The paranoid prone with their incessant and strident voices love to lash out at what they fear rather than being part of the solution. For them removing their fears is the only answer they are capable of understanding.

Carry on school grounds would be in violation of federal law. The schools gun free act. As I see it it is the duty of States to toss out and disobey Federal law that is unconstitutional. It would have been better if they had objected to begin with but that takes citizens to motivate their representatives and object to such stupid laws that endanger their children.

 

[Crimefree]

I think the plot got lost somewhere. When teachers go bananas over a childes fantasy play that is not education at work.

 

[Slyfox696]

Because you seemingly do not comprehend

I comprehend just fine. Did you?

Or knee jerk reactions to what they do not understand.

Let's come at this another way.

What exactly do you think is not understood by the schools?

 

[Crimefree]

I comprehend just fine. Did you?

Let's come at this another way.

What exactly do you think is not understood by the schools?

If that will make it easier for you to understand.

I do not think, I know child's fantasy play is vital to development and to punish that is simply crazy and born of abject ignorance coupled with idiotic fear. Which part of kids play acting cops and robbers or some other game did you not understand was curtailed by uninformed emotionally driven incorrect school policy and asinine behaviour?

A Child's Work: The Importance of Fantasy Play - Paley

Killing Monsters: Our Children's Need for Fantasy, Heroism and Make-believe Violence - Jones

War, Conflict and Play - Hyder

We don't play with guns here: War, Weapon and Superhero Play in the Early Years (Debating Play) - Holland

Empowering Childhood
Inspiring Compassion, Communication, Co-operation and Connection
Children Need Gun Play
https://empoweringchildhood.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/children-need-gun-play/

 

[Slyfox696]

If that will make it easier for you to understand.

I do not think, I know child's fantasy play is vital to development and to punish that is simply crazy and born of abject ignorance coupled with idiotic fear. Which part of kids play acting cops and robbers or some other game did you not understand was curtailed by uninformed emotionally driven incorrect school policy and asinine behaviour?

So you think the school had a "kneejerk reaction" by enforcing policy which had been implemented BEFORE the child violated it? And you don't see how ridiculous that sounds?

No, the only person who doesn't understand right now is you. You don't understand the reasons a school would have such a policy and you seemingly don't understand why a school has to enforce existing policy. You don't seem to understand school policy is oftentimes driven by compliance with law and mitigating the risk of lawsuit, both on their own behalf and at the request of their insurance company. You don't understand anything about this story because you think this story is about guns and you seemingly have very little understanding of what schools have to deal with.

This story is not about guns. This story is about education and discipline. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop saying nonsensical things like a school had a kneejerk reaction by enforcing policy written before the child's actions. This is not a story about guns. Put down the hairs on the back of your neck and understand the facts.

The facts are the school informed the child MULTIPLE times his actions were in violation of school policy. We know this for a fact because of the letter. We also know for a fact the school has come out and said the suspension was NOT just for the casing, which supports what we knew earlier from the letter. We also know school policy is written for compliance with existing laws and to mitigate the risk of lawsuit. Finally, we know a school cannot just arbitrarily choose which policies they wish to enforce, as that would defeat the reasons the policy exists in the first place.

You're wrong. And you said something really nonsensical, a "kneejerk reaction" of yours to the story, because you obviously love guns and your love blinded you to the facts. Stop thinking this thread is about guns and perhaps you'll be able to more objectively acknowledge the facts of the situation.

 

[blackjack50]

i didn't say they should be put to death god, i said they should be *separated* from their victims who want to learn in peace

You just wrote them off as having 0 hope. Why try? You might as well sentence them to death. Again. Do you even vaguely understand how sickening that is? I hope to God you aren't a teacher of any kind. Separating a kid because you don't like his attitude?

Do you realize it is the obligation of the teacher and the school to actually try and create success in that "****ty" kids life? Create some hope? That "successful" kid you seem to think is special? He isn't. He will be fine. You could drop him in any school.

But that bully? Unlikely. That kid is the one who actually needs the attention. I've been that 1 person in a kids life before. And the difference it makes is amazing. 1 positive role model. And actually being able to show the kid that being a bully is what causes them to be ostracized and disliked? And that maybe if they were around good kids? And they weren't a dick?

I mean holy **** man. There is no reason to separate kids. They are kids. We are supposed to be a nation of equal opportunity. And you are arguing to separate a kid because they have an attitude?

i didn't say home school always works either, i said *on average* for those who learn this way. If you remember the old poster gathomas, he was home schooled and damn did it show in a bad way. But see, i defer to data, again unlike you. They have *on average* better academic and career outcomes. Socially is difficult to measure obviously. My point is this should not be the case if K-12 works

Walking in their shoes? I've seen abuse plenty. My best friend (or rather, he considered me his best friend) growing up lived with abusive stepdads. I've seen and experienced it all man, except murder

It seems to escape you that those required classes are in part to establish a student's interests. There's a reason the average student changes majors like 3x, which is K-12 fails pretty bad at pushing kids to hone in on their skills and passions. So they have to do it in college, where suddenly say a biology class is vastly different from HS. So you decide that's not for you, maybe you'll try chemistry since that too is required for a BS degree. The only class i found to be a total waste was intro writing, since it resembled HS and all except the foreign kids could write adequately for most anything except at PhD level. And how many go into that, 1/100? Everything else either built on previous class work or taught some useful skills. Then there are about 30 credits you can take at your discretion, such as in your major, for a 2nd major (some even do a 3rd), or god forbid, you just simply find a class intriguing. A lot like taking a cooking class, or whatever. But you need to not have a **** attitude to make it work

I hate to break it to you, but teaching a particular subject at the K-12 level is not the end all purpose of college education. There's a damn school of architecture here, an engineering school, a pharmacy school, a nursing school etc etc. Maybe some will agree with you that there are some unnecessary classes even within those, but no college can design curriculum and certify a degree that will be respected by employers and graduate schools around *every* individual's preferences. Just like a pilot has to log 1000 hours or whatever, even if he only needs 800. But if you're hellbent on it, yes, there is an option to individual craft a major. Good luck explaining and marketing it though

As for "walking in their shoes," I don't buy it. I don't think you really understood it. If you did...then you would understand the obligation to work with the kids. And you are talking to someone who WAS bullied. Until the day I threatened to put a kid into the hospital...I was bullied.


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[jaeger19]

As a former and future teacher...


Wow

You have just written off kids based on your bad experiences. Really? That is truly sad. Why not just put them to death at 16 if they are a bully? Right? You really have never worked with kids have you?

As for home schooling...no. It doesn't always produce better results. Sometimes it creates emotionally stunted individuals. People who may be able to survive, but they don't thrive as an adult. They can't handle true adversity. They can't handle disagreements and not getting your own way. That kind of thing. And I'm not knocking home school either. My girlfriend was home schooled. She excelled. But it didn't work for her brother. Someone you have written off because he is a kid who enjoys having fun. Someone going into trade school.

Anyway. The only reason home school works is because of the same reason that inner city or poor schools fail: home life. Good parents make good kids. Period. You wouldn't be touting home school for a kid whose mother is a crackhead. Would you? And would you even show understanding to the kid with violent tendencies when he watches his mother get abused by her boyfriend (dad isn't around), who she in turn abuses his siblings and him?

Try walking in their shoes man.



And no. I wasn't projecting. My degree works for what I want to do. Teaching. But do you really think I needed to take classes on astronomy? I won't be teaching it. What about the classes I had to take on biology? Grew up in an animal hospital and I made straight as in high school. Didn't learn squat there. Weather? I could go right back through my college transcript and probably cut out a few thousand dollars worth of wasted time, book, and scholarship money.

Not ALL college classes are necessary. Period. Some are a waste of time.


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just to point out.. that your college classes in biology, and astronomy, weather... weren't wastes of time.

You had to take subjects out of your comfort zone, learn the material, learn how to apply it etc. That's one of the purposes of college. not to fill you with knowledge.. but fill you with the tools to process and use said knowledge.. whatever it may be in the future.

That's the real purpose of education.

The biology in particular should be beneficial because it should teach the scientific process.. and critical thinking.

 

[jaeger19]

So you think the school had a "kneejerk reaction" by enforcing policy which had been implemented BEFORE the child violated it? And you don't see how ridiculous that sounds?

No, the only person who doesn't understand right now is you. You don't understand the reasons a school would have such a policy and you seemingly don't understand why a school has to enforce existing policy. You don't seem to understand school policy is oftentimes driven by compliance with law and mitigating the risk of lawsuit, both on their own behalf and at the request of their insurance company. You don't understand anything about this story because you think this story is about guns and you seemingly have very little understanding of what schools have to deal with.

This story is not about guns. This story is about education and discipline. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop saying nonsensical things like a school had a kneejerk reaction by enforcing policy written before the child's actions. This is not a story about guns. Put down the hairs on the back of your neck and understand the facts.

The facts are the school informed the child MULTIPLE times his actions were in violation of school policy. We know this for a fact because of the letter. We also know for a fact the school has come out and said the suspension was NOT just for the casing, which supports what we knew earlier from the letter. We also know school policy is written for compliance with existing laws and to mitigate the risk of lawsuit. Finally, we know a school cannot just arbitrarily choose which policies they wish to enforce, as that would defeat the reasons the policy exists in the first place.

You're wrong. And you said something really nonsensical, a "kneejerk reaction" of yours to the story, because you obviously love guns and your love blinded you to the facts. Stop thinking this thread is about guns and perhaps you'll be able to more objectively acknowledge the facts of the situation.

Its not about guns? What are you talking about?. The whole reason for the disciplining and the school policy was ABOUT GUNS.

And the existing policy was not about compliance with existing laws.. nor was it to mitigate the risk of lawsuit. That's nuts.

 

[Slyfox696]

Its not about guns?

No, this story is not about guns.

What are you talking about?

The story in the opening post. If you don't know, then go back and read.

The whole reason for the disciplining and the school policy was ABOUT GUNS.

No, the reason for discipline was the consistent failure to obey the rules of the school. The fact it was about guns is irrelevant. In other words, had the child consistently used foul language, he would have been just as suspended. If the child had consistently struck other students, he would have been just as suspended. The only difference is most people in this thread would suddenly not care.

The school made it very clear the suspension was for repeated violations of policy, not because it involved guns.

And the existing policy was not about compliance with existing laws.. nor was it to mitigate the risk of lawsuit. That's nuts.

Of course it is. Do you even begin to understand how school works?

 

[Crimefree]

Boy suspended for taking shell casing to preschool, mom's Facebook post goes viral | Fox News

And of course there is the predictable chorus of "OMG stoopid lib'rals that's not a shotgun bullet it's a child-killer 4000 bullet!".

Honestly, who cares?

It is highly irresponsible for these parents to allow their kids to bring gun crap to a preschool. If you don't know that the kid has a bullet in his backpack odds are he could sneak a gun into the preschool. Kudos to this preschool for removing their kid. I wouldn't ever send my kid to a place with irresponsible gun owners like that.

It's highly idiotic to teach hatred and fear of an object at any level. That however does not stop the lunatic brigade from screeching like banshees every time one of those objects appears. How our ignorant uneducated fools we call educators have managed to get this crap into schools is the parents fault who should have stopped it before it was wet ink on paper. Now the parents who are to blame screech when idiocy rears it head. Organise parents and fire the fools who are so childishly small minded as to ignore your childes well being and stifle curiosity and fantasy play.

 

[Crimefree]

So you think the school had a "kneejerk reaction" by enforcing policy which had been implemented BEFORE the child violated it? And you don't see how ridiculous that sounds?

Are you going to post applicable reasoning or not? It is never ridiculous to challenge bad, false, harmful or unjust laws or policy. Do you know what kins of person tries to enforce those?

No, the only person who doesn't understand right now is you. You don't understand the reasons a school would have such a policy and you seemingly don't understand why a school has to enforce existing policy. You don't seem to understand school policy is oftentimes driven by compliance with law and mitigating the risk of lawsuit, both on their own behalf and at the request of their insurance company. You don't understand anything about this story because you think this story is about guns and you seemingly have very little understanding of what schools have to deal with.

Oh my goodness. The only thing schools have to deal with is the piss poor product of their education system.

This story is not about guns. This story is about education and discipline. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop saying nonsensical things like a school had a kneejerk reaction by enforcing policy written before the child's actions. This is not a story about guns. Put down the hairs on the back of your neck and understand the facts.

I'm reminded of slave owners for some reason standing on a soap box defending the ownership of slaves. The rest of this evacuated bowl movement deleted to save those more astute from reading it again.

Yes I'm saying the preschool has an idiotic policy teaching hatred and fear of objects. The whole "violence of children's play" thing is way beyond the closed minds of the fear crazed educators and parents who accept this kind of false ideology from people who are supposed to know better.

It is about guns and more importantly the idiotic attitude schools have.

If you don't see the sense of doing it correctly then that is your problem. There is more than sufficient evidence to show how vital children's fantasy play is. What is your excuse for not knowing?

 

[Slyfox696]

Are you going to post applicable reasoning or not? It is never ridiculous to challenge bad, false, harmful or unjust laws or policy.

Are you just not going to acknowledge you said something absolutely ridiculous by claiming the school had a kneejerk reaction because of their actions before the child violated policy?

Your position is ridiculous. A school can't have a kneejerk reaction by enforcing a policy written before the child committed the offense. It is most illogical to claim otherwise.

Do you know what kins of person tries to enforce those?

Just because you don't understand the need, doesn't make them "bad, false", etc. It just means you disagree with them.

Do you know what kind of person use illogical statements to accuse others of acting improperly because they don't understand the purpose and disagree with it?

Oh my goodness. The only thing schools have to deal with is the piss poor product of their education system.

So your answer is that you have no idea what you are talking about and have no idea about the stuff schools deal with.

Why not just admit your ignorance up front and save us both time? You have no idea the nonsense schools have to deal with, you've made that clear. And your ignorance on the subject is leading you to post statements which absolutely fail the logic test, all because...you know, GUNS!!!

Just stop. I clearly am far more educated on this subject than you are, which is why your argument has been exposed as the utter nonsense it always was. You don't understand what you're talking about. And that's fine, there are many subjects on which I am ignorant. For example, I wouldn't begin to tell a surgeon how to perform an operation. But when it comes to schools and how they are run, I am far far more educated on the subject than you seem to be.

My best advice to you would be to simply acknowledge your inferior knowledge of the situation and bow out of the discussion.