Gun Control Works?

[DashingAmerican]

So lets look at something:

Following stats are per 100,000 people

In Alabama there are 2.8 gun homicides
Texas = 2.5
Washington D.C. = 16.5
Pennsylvania = 3.6

Difference in the states?
Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania has 2 of the strictest gun laws in the country.

 

[CalGun]

Actually no "gun proliferation" works - more guns less crime - its a fact!

So lets look at something:

Following stats are per 100,000 people

In Alabama there are 2.8 gun homicides
Texas = 2.5
Washington D.C. = 16.5
Pennsylvania = 3.6

Difference in the states?
Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania has 2 of the strictest gun laws in the country.

 

[TurtleDude]

The error in this thread is the definition of "works"

LIberal gun haters pretend that crime control is their motivation. Its easily shown that gun control does not WORK to accomplish crime control. However, the real motivation of those who lead and perpetrate the conspiracy against gun rights. is to harass law abiding gun owners and to diminish our rights

that is how the far wrong evaluates gun laws and many of the things we honest people note do not WORK when it comes to crime control certainly work to achieve the intended harassment by their creators

 

[tererun]

Violence-Related Firearm Deaths Among Residents of Metropolitan Areas and Cities --- United States, 2006--2007

just because the OP seems to want to compare statewide averages with a city and pretend that it makes sense we should offer up some numbers that compare cities to cities which would make the most sense. It is called supporting your actual opinion with the full story and not just the numbers you chose because they seem to make a point and because your ideas evaporate when you actually look at all of reality. City of huston texas 12.9 per 100k people. Oh, but the OP never said anything about the fact that the averages with the rural areas actually don't take into account the differences in urban and rural environments. I am sure that sort of thing doesn't matter. The five buroughs of NYC were at 4 per 100k. The city of Dallas texas runs at 9.8. Miami is over 23, and don't they allow gun ownership in florida? georgia must have strict gun control laws because Atlanta is at 17.

Wow, when you compare similar things to similar things you find the OP's argument was a complete fantasy.

 

[TurtleDude]

Violence-Related Firearm Deaths Among Residents of Metropolitan Areas and Cities --- United States, 2006--2007

just because the OP seems to want to compare statewide averages with a city and pretend that it makes sense we should offer up some numbers that compare cities to cities which would make the most sense. It is called supporting your actual opinion with the full story and not just the numbers you chose because they seem to make a point and because your ideas evaporate when you actually look at all of reality. City of huston texas 12.9 per 100k people. Oh, but the OP never said anything about the fact that the averages with the rural areas actually don't take into account the differences in urban and rural environments. I am sure that sort of thing doesn't matter. The five buroughs of NYC were at 4 per 100k. The city of Dallas texas runs at 9.8. Miami is over 23, and don't they allow gun ownership in florida? georgia must have strict gun control laws because Atlanta is at 17.

Wow, when you compare similar things to similar things you find the OP's argument was a complete fantasy.

you are getting more desperate by the day. First the wet dream of the assault weapon (sic) ban is defeated. then the silly attempt to create backdoor registration falters. And now the the crime statistics bitch slap the anti gun morons like a rented mule

must suck to be a gun hater. The year started so well for you all. You got the most anti gun president in history reelected along with his brain dead gun banning sidekick. And you had the blood of 20 children to bask in and appeal to the emotion of a nation full of distraught grim weepers spurred on by 24/7 news media coverage.

but now its all fading away

 

[Goshin]

From what I've been able to determine in my studies on this, gun ownership rates and gun control laws don't seem to have any major effect on crime one way or the other.


The major indicators for crime start with population density (ie cities), and continue to corrupt or ineffective gov't/LE/courts; poverty or extreme wealth inequality; factions/gangs/tribes; and drug trade.


Looking at various cities and various nations, gun control or gun proliferation isn't remotely a key component to violent crime. Even if gun control is draconian and legal private gun ownership almost non-existent (ie Mexico and Britain), you can have two very different situations (Mexico is incredibly violent while Britain has very few homicides.)

 

[tererun]

Actually no "gun proliferation" works - more guns less crime - its a fact!

Actually the fact is cities have higher homicide rates which seems to apply to gun homicides also. But don't let the fact that the Op compared a city to state averages in an open attempt to distort facts when there was actual information readily available to compare city violence to city violence.

But don't actually think about the argument he made, just cheer for it mindlessly and hope no one figures out how flawed it was.

 

[tererun]

From what I've been able to determine in my studies on this, gun ownership rates and gun control laws don't seem to have any major effect on crime one way or the other.


The major indicators for crime start with population density (ie cities), and continue to corrupt or ineffective gov't/LE/courts; poverty or extreme wealth inequality; factions/gangs/tribes; and drug trade.


Looking at various cities and various nations, gun control or gun proliferation isn't remotely a key component to violent crime. Even if gun control is draconian and legal private gun ownership almost non-existent (ie Mexico and Britain), you can have two very different situations (Mexico is incredibly violent while Britain has very few homicides.)

Who are we more similar to? mexico or britain and other european countries? When we look at our law enforcement and it's presence in our lives in comparison with places like that we find much more similarity to industrialized nations rather than third world nations. In mexico I could probably shoot someone with a much higher chance of getting away with it due to police presence and lack of tracking technology. There is so much less law enforcement involvement in third world countries that the threat of apprehension and punishment for crimes is less of a deterrent, and the damaging effects to organized crime by law enforcement become negligible leading to a proliforation of crime. Instead in america we have a police force much closer to the UK who would have the power and presence to continue to disrupt crime and prosecute criminals using some of the best human technology available.

In the end it makes much more sense to see europe as a far better comparison than Mexico in these areas.

 

[carlinkid]

Who are we more similar to? mexico or britain and other european countries? When we look at our law enforcement and it's presence in our lives in comparison with places like that we find much more similarity to industrialized nations rather than third world nations. In mexico I could probably shoot someone with a much higher chance of getting away with it due to police presence and lack of tracking technology. There is so much less law enforcement involvement in third world countries that the threat of apprehension and punishment for crimes is less of a deterrent, and the damaging effects to organized crime by law enforcement become negligible leading to a proliforation of crime. Instead in america we have a police force much closer to the UK who would have the power and presence to continue to disrupt crime and prosecute criminals using some of the best human technology available.

In the end it makes much more sense to see europe as a far better comparison than Mexico in these areas.

Yes and we can have mass riots(man I love riot control people with their fancy little shields and clubs) and law enforcement people shooting rubber bullets at people and using tear gas. What does this remind you of? it reminds me of the WTO conference in Seattle.

 

[Goshin]

Who are we more similar to? mexico or britain and other european countries? When we look at our law enforcement and it's presence in our lives in comparison with places like that we find much more similarity to industrialized nations rather than third world nations. In mexico I could probably shoot someone with a much higher chance of getting away with it due to police presence and lack of tracking technology. There is so much less law enforcement involvement in third world countries that the threat of apprehension and punishment for crimes is less of a deterrent, and the damaging effects to organized crime by law enforcement become negligible leading to a proliforation of crime. Instead in america we have a police force much closer to the UK who would have the power and presence to continue to disrupt crime and prosecute criminals using some of the best human technology available.

In the end it makes much more sense to see europe as a far better comparison than Mexico in these areas.

I would have to disagree in many regards.

Europe is very different from the US in many ways. It is very old ("where the history comes from" as Eddie Izzard says, lol), and very densely populated, with very different social dynamics. Many European nations have relatively homogenous cultures, while the US is exceedingly diverse and also polarized into many different groups that don't like each other very much in many cases.

European nations don't have a recent frontier mentality as America does, and are rather more group-and-community oriented whereas the US is more individualistic. Most Euro nations are also more culturally accepting of relatively authoritarian and extensive government and more content to accept the reservation of use of force to governmental agents.

The US is almost like 50 nations in search of a country... or more like 5,000 since individual cities and counties can vary considerably from the regional norms. There are major cultural differences between NE and SE, MidWest and West Coast, and vast differences between urban and rural lifestyles.

This vast diversity and fractiousness is exemplified in our politics, and their divisiveness and vitriol.

Also, most European nations NEVER had anything within a tiny fraction of our levels of gun ownership to begin with, or our traditions of the armed citizen or of self-reliance and rugged individualism.


What works in Europe will not necessarily work here. The differences are vast.

 

[TurtleDude]

Who are we more similar to? mexico or britain and other european countries? When we look at our law enforcement and it's presence in our lives in comparison with places like that we find much more similarity to industrialized nations rather than third world nations. In mexico I could probably shoot someone with a much higher chance of getting away with it due to police presence and lack of tracking technology. There is so much less law enforcement involvement in third world countries that the threat of apprehension and punishment for crimes is less of a deterrent, and the damaging effects to organized crime by law enforcement become negligible leading to a proliforation of crime. Instead in america we have a police force much closer to the UK who would have the power and presence to continue to disrupt crime and prosecute criminals using some of the best human technology available.

In the end it makes much more sense to see europe as a far better comparison than Mexico in these areas.

why do you blather on about law enforcement and crime when it is patently obvious to all of us that your bloodclot wailing cries for more CONTROL is nothing more than a desire to punish people who don't agree with your politics

 

[Black Dog]

I am getting tired of this whole debate.

Fact Gun control does not affect overall crime. It only lowers gun related crimes, and not in all cases as we saw with the 1984 AWB.
Fact Gun control does affect the ability of lawful citizens to effectively defend themselves.
Fact Gun control does affect the suicide death rate, not the amount of suicide attempts. Since it is not a criminal offence in itself to attempt suicide, it is not relevant.
Fact Gun control is not about crime, it is about more government control, period.

In the end if it was about crime, I could actually back more gun control. It is not however. It is about people who are fearful of lawful citizens owning guns.

 

[TurtleDude]

I am getting tired of this whole debate.

Fact Gun control does not affect overall crime. It only lowers gun related crimes, and not in all cases as we saw with the 1984 AWB.
Fact Gun control does affect the ability of lawful citizens to effectively defend themselves.
Fact Gun control does affect the suicide death rate, not the amount of suicide attempts. Since it is not a criminal offence in itself to attempt suicide, it is not relevant.
Fact Gun control is not about crime, it is about more government control, period.

In the end if it was about crime, I could actually back more gun control. It is not however. It is about people who are fearful of lawful citizens owning guns.

some are fearful

others are merely spiteful assholes who want to punish people who don't support their socialist agendas

 

[Dem]

Speaking of Gun Control? I just returned from the Blair County Game, Fish and Forestry Gun show in Altoona. Picked up a nice Mauser kar98k for $85! Where did gun control come into play? My wife said it was tough to control my spending at the show!

 

[Black Dog]

Speaking of Gun Control? I just returned from the Blair County Game, Fish and Forestry Gun show in Altoona. Picked up a nice Mauser kar98k for $85! Where did gun control come into play? My wife said it was tough to control my spending at the show!

I just found out I can get a 460 Rowland drop in barrel for my XD .45 Tac. I am hyped! More powerful than a 44Mag and except for like boar or bear hunting, absolutely useless! Must have!

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