Govt. lied about census question

[Kal'Stang]

i dunno

depends on if the people are scared of answering the questions

and that depends on how the media and spin is put on it

if they are afraid...no we wont get good info

If the media frames it in a way that makes them scared to fill out the form then the media should be held accountable. There is no valid reason to fear "Are you a US citizen". In order to combat that then the message needs to get out that there is no valid reason to fear it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Then you're just as off topic seeing as I was responding to your long back-and-forth with eco. Wasn't I?

(Except, it really isn't, because they trace back to the same general issue: how Trump & Co. is trying to deal with illegal immigrants).



Seriously though. Some time, try to respond to something on point. I think that out of the last ten or so times I bothered, you jumped thread about 8 times and diverted the other two.

Now I'm confuzzled. Mind explaining a bit more?

How is "haha, my post was hypocrisy" supposed to be a rejoinder?

There are valid times to be a hypocrite. Ex: I'm pro-choice politically, anti-abortion personally. Some times life is contradictory.

 

[Mr Person]

Now I'm confuzzled. Mind explaining a bit more?

There are valid times to be a hypocrite. Ex: I'm pro-choice politically, anti-abortion personally. Some times life is contradictory.

The substantive point I made is still sitting in the post in which I made it. If you want to discuss the actual topic, fine, but I'm not interested in the usual game-playing.

 

[Bodi]

Did you actually read the OP? Wilbur Ross originally stated that the reasoning and request for the census question came from the DoJ. However, e-mails show that to be a lie. Ross merely asked the DoJ to play along with his idea of adding the census question and pretend the DoJ requested it.

The real problem is that people freak out over little things and turn everything into hate marches and potential senate hearings about impeachment that administrations tell little lies here and there.

 

[Bodi]

It's divisive, "not one of us".

But think about it from an undocumented immigrant's view. It's basically, "are you legal".

This is about optics.

I don't see a problem with the question at all... what we should do is reward the illegal immigrant with a fast track towards citizenship. We should also add more questions for them about how they got here illegally, why they came and what we can do to help more get here legally. This would also help the border and cut down on MS13 and illegal drugss.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't see a problem with the question at all... what we should do is reward the illegal immigrant with a fast track towards citizenship. We should also add more questions for them about how they got here illegally, why they came and what we can do to help more get here legally. This would also help the border and cut down on MS13 and illegal drugss.

If you were an undocumented worker, on shaky ground and terrified of the government, you might see it differently.

We want their participation. If one wants another's participation, it's best not to scare that person.

 

[Bodi]

If you were an undocumented worker, on shaky ground and terrified of the government, you might see it differently.

I completely understand this already.

We want their participation. If one want's another's participation, it's best not to scare that person.

that is why I added the reward and how it will help.

 

[ecofarm]

I completely understand this already.



that is why I added the reward and how it will help.

Let's presume for a moment we can't change everything. Let's say we're stuck with the census and we want as much participation as possible, including from undocumented immigrants. Does it make sense to put a red flag "maybe we're gonna get you!" on the form? No. Every citizen has a social security number. We know how many there are.

It's a matter of census productivity that we be sensitive to how others might see, and be dissuaded by, the form.

We're just trying to get as many answers as possible. Is it so impossible to admit that the question might dissuade some people? That's the problem with the question, and it's a problem you should see.

 

[itsforthekids]

Federal Judge Says Trump Administration May Have Added Citizenship Question to Census out of Racial Animus

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross



Judge Furman believes two factors were behind the Trump administration's decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census ... underhanded political gain coupled with racism/bigotry.

Is there ANYTHING the Trump administration does not lie about?

Related: The Trump administration’s deception on the census should be a major scandal

Perhaps this federal judge is a far left weenie who doesn’t want to lose his housekeeper? My point is, there are many lefters on the bench. All he need do is raise a question about a policy that they don’t like...and POOF....the Trump administration is full of racists!

 

[justabubba]

Perhaps this federal judge is a far left weenie who doesn’t want to lose his housekeeper? My point is, there are many lefters on the bench. All he need do is raise a question about a policy that they don’t like...and POOF....the Trump administration is full of racists!

let's see how the GOP refuses to address immigration security requiring e-verify for all employees
the republicans do not want to confirm which of their employees are in this country legally:
https://www.politico.com/newsletter...-summit-pompeo-snubs-house-republicans-290204

 

[Bodi]

Let's presume for a moment we can't change everything. Let's say we're stuck with the census and we want as much participation as possible, including from undocumented immigrants. Does it make sense to put a red flag "maybe we're gonna get you!" on the form? No. Every citizen has a social security number. We know how many there are.

It's a matter of census productivity that we be sensitive to how others might see, and be dissuaded by, the form.

We're just trying to get as many answers as possible. Is it so impossible to admit that the question might dissuade some people? That's the problem with the question, and it's a problem you should see.

The real question and the first question is really this: What information of importance can we and would we gain from not asking a citizenship question that we might not gain from asking a citizenship question?

 

[ecofarm]

The real question and the first question is really this: What information of importance can we and would we gain from not asking a citizenship question that we might not gain from asking a citizenship question?

We know how many citizens there are. They all have social security numbers. We gain nothing and we deter immigrants from participation.

 

[Bodi]

We know how many citizens there are. They all have social security numbers. We gain nothing and we deter immigrants from participation.

What benefit is there in having illegal immigrants participate?

 

[Bullseye]

Federal Judge Says Trump Administration May Have Added Citizenship Question to Census out of Racial Animus

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross



Judge Furman believes two factors were behind the Trump administration's decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census ... underhanded political gain coupled with racism/bigotry.

Is there ANYTHING the Trump administration does not lie about?

Related: The Trump administration’s deception on the census should be a major scandal

Assuming it's not the judge's misconceptions causing this ruling. Sounds like the judge is confusing racism and immigration law enforcement. Didn't the question used to be on the form? Was that racial animus too?

 

[ecofarm]

What benefit is there in having illegal immigrants participate?

We want an accurate count of people for various reasons; missing 12m+ would be bad. Even legal immigrants could possibly be dissuaded given particular circumstances. For no gain. If you can show me a significant or meaningful benefit of asking the question, I'll reconsider my position.

 

[Bodi]

We want an accurate count of people for various reasons; missing 12m+ would be bad. Even legal immigrants could possibly be dissuaded given particular circumstances. For no gain. If you can show me a significant or meaningful benefit of asking the question, I'll reconsider my position.

How about anybody that does not answer the census gets arrested?

 

[ecofarm]

How about anybody that does not answer the census gets arrested?

We don't have the money, or the ability to use the military domestically.

So, again, changes aside. I'll reconsider my position upon new information. I don't see how you could hold "it's not a problem".

 

[Bodi]

We don't have the money, or the ability to use the military domestically.

So, again, changes aside. I'll reconsider my position upon new information. I don't see how you could hold "it's not a problem".

I don't care if you change your position... I don't see a question as a problem. I see illegal immigrants evading detection as the problem.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't care if you change your position... I don't see a question as a problem. I see illegal immigrants evading detection as the problem.

If we use the form to detect them, the census is damaged. We'd be using it for something other than what it's designed for and, in the process, undermining our effort.

The two are, in this instance, mutually exclusive as their participation is the goal.

 

[Bodi]

If we use the form to detect them, the census is damaged. We'd be using it for something other than what it's designed for and, in the process, undermining our effort.

The two are, in this instance, mutually exclusive as their participation is the goal.

We are not using it to detect them...

 

[ecofarm]

We are not using it to detect them...

Then why do you conflate issues? I clearly explained the problem with the question. You ignored it and brought up something unrelated. Great debate.

 

[Bodi]

Then why do you conflate issues? I clearly explained the problem with the question. You ignored it and brought up something unrelated. Great debate.

If we are not using it to detect them then they should have no worries in answering the question...

 

[ecofarm]

If we are not using it to detect them then they should have no worries in answering the question...

Now you speak for them and contrary to their concerns. I guess that's better than "who cares what they think", but it's more a lateral move than towards humanity.

 

[Bodi]

Now you speak for them and contrary to their concerns. I guess that's better than "who cares what they think", but it's more a lateral move than towards humanity.

You said that they are fearful of being detected... but if we are not using it to detect them then why is that a valid worry that we should take into consideration?

 

[ecofarm]

You said that they are fearful of being detected... but if we are not using it to detect them then why is that a valid worry that we should take into consideration?

You can't figure that out? Gotta be joking.