Agree with the GovernorIn the wake of a racially charged mass shooting that left nine African-American parishioners dead at a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, Republican Gov. Nikki Haley on Monday will call for the Confederate flag outside the state capitol to be taken down, sources confirmed to NBC News.
Haley will deliver the remarks during a scheduled 4 p.m. ET press conference amid mounting pressure to remove the controversial flag following the massacre, which authorities have called a hate crime.
It does belong in a museum. It may be symbolic on the face of it, but symbolism has real life consequences. As long as states like South Carolina continue to fly confederate flags on official government property and name streets after confederate generals and such, it is going to keep the issue of racial tension at the forefront of people's minds. The presence of remnants of institutionalized racism such as these symbols only encourage heinous and racist acts such as the Charleston shooting. Black people in South Carolina are literally driving down streets named after generals that fought to keep their ancestors enslaved, and their very state government flies the flag of a rogue nation whose primary purpose for existing was to preserve slavery. That is going to bring racial tensions to the forefront of people's minds. If people want to actually display confederate flags, that free speech and their right, albeit in very poor taste, but this active government endorsement of these symbols is clearly hurting the state of race relations, and if a clear proportion of the population wants a flag that brings no obvious benefits taken down, then by all means it should be.
I explained in another thread why I believe the flag should be taken down, and that just because the flag is a symbol doesn't mean that it does not have actual consequences:
Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace GreeleyAs to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
It's up to the people of each state to determine what their flag looks like.
It's up to the people of each state to determine what their flag looks like.
Indeed, Bill Clinton was all about the Confederate flag.
Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds | MSNBC
Agree with the Governor
Disagree with the Governor
Not sure
Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds | MSNBC
Agree with the Governor
Disagree with the Governor
Not sure
I think the decision should be South Carolinians'.
it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.
The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.Leave the flag. In the same way that it's wrong to punish all citizens by taking away their guns when nuts go on a rampage, so it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.
The Confederacy and the flag, do not represent slavery except to a few select nuts that adopted the flag for their own hateful purposes. The flag became a symbol of rebellion against the occupying unioners after the Civil War, during the Restoration. The unioners burned, raped and pillaged - and this was after the war was over. The south held on to their flag as a symbol that they would survive and rise again against the aggressors.
And, for those that think Lincoln fought the war over slavery - think again. Emancipation was a by-product of the war.
Read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley:
Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley
Lincoln's only purpose was to restore the Union. Period.
To late for that NB.BO called for Reflection. The MS Media helped out. The word was sent out. Quiji was consulted. The Answer.
Send in.....the Illiberals.
Protesters gathered under the controversial Confederate flag at South Carolina's state legislature, demanding it be taken down in response to the Charleston church massacre.
Waving placards, chanting "take it down" and singing "We Shall Overcome," the youthful crowd, black and white, condemned the Civil War saltire as a symbol of lingering racist sentiment in the American South.....snip~
Confederate flag protest in South Carolina
Why is there always some numb nut holding the sign upside down? We're going to have to get these signs made with an "Up" arrow, I guess. That's disheartening. Reminds me of Being There, with Peter Sellers.
I heard Governor Pataki this morning on Fox saying that he was sure that South Carolina would do the "right" thing and thought to myself, "Well, that's up to South Carolina to decide."
The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.
Leave the flag. In the same way that it's wrong to punish all citizens by taking away their guns when nuts go on a rampage, so it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.
The Confederacy and the flag, do not represent slavery except to a few select nuts that adopted the flag for their own hateful purposes. The flag became a symbol of rebellion against the occupying unioners after the Civil War, during the Restoration. The unioners burned, raped and pillaged - and this was after the war was over. The south held on to their flag as a symbol that they would survive and rise again against the aggressors.
And, for those that think Lincoln fought the war over slavery - think again. Emancipation was a by-product of the war.
The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.
I am a South Carolinian. I was around during the first flag flap in the 90s, which was eventually ended by moving it to the War Memorial in 2000. The law doing so says this cannot be changed or modified without a 2/3rds majority of our State Congress agreeing.
That.... is likely to take a while, if it happens at all. Some of you may not be aware how hard it is to get any Congress to muster a 2/3rds majority about ANYTHING.
I'm ok with that. I don't believe we should react to the hysteria in haste. We should reflect, consider, discuss, debate at length... and then decide, and act with due deliberation, making it clear we are not acting as a result of the outside hysteria but of our own volition.
I'm slightly disappointed that our Governor didn't wait a while before saying something like this... it makes her look like she is too subject to outside influence.
Me personally.... I don't really care all that much. I thought the War Memorial was a good place for it. Ok now a lot of people think it shouldn't be right there at the edge of State House grounds, they think it shows approval of what only a few % of nuts and haters think it means. Ok fine. Move it to some other Confederate Memorial place in Columbia and leave it be. Or leave it where it is and tell all the outsiders howling over a piece of cloth to go play hide and go @#$ themselves.
Doesn't really matter that much to me, I just don't want whatever is done, done under outside pressure.
Best thing the SC Congress should do, is respond to Governor Haley with "We'll put it on next year's legislative agenda, and we'll get back to you. Meanwhile, we have far more important things to handle."
I did not say they were, you created a straw argument. The argument is what the Confederacy represented, what the flag represents. It represents a slave based economic system which the Confederacy fought to preserve.Not everyone was fighting for slavery,
I think it's a great decision.Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds | MSNBC
Agree with the Governor
Disagree with the Governor
Not sure
Heya Goshin. :2wave: BO said time to reflect. That means no time to waste. NBC.....Savannah Guthrie remember. Then CBS asking Haley to answer the call about racism in her state.
Hillary needs helps with S Carolina in a General, huh?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?