global warming and what you do about it

[Deuce]

So we pre emptively implement enormous strain just in case it helps some hypothetical futureworld scenario ? Once our remaining industries price themselves out of whats left of thier markets due to punitive and unecessary energy tariffs I'd suggest than 'enormous strain' will come sooner rather than later for most us and our employment prospects.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.

 

[flogger]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.

I'll try and remember that when my familys on welfare. Moral superiority sure costs a lot these days doesnt it ? :roll:

 

[Deuce]

I'll try and remember that when my familys on welfare. Moral superiority sure costs a lot these days doesnt it ? :roll:

So your increased costs would be offset by assistance required.

 

[monkeyloveafight]

.

If it does then that compounds the issue with respect to energy taxation



Well let the private sector do so. If its viable it will be profitable if it isnt it wont. Why should I or any other private citizen have our finances 'volunteered' for it ?

You or any other private citizen have your finances 'volunteered' for subsidising fossil fuel use. That doesn't bother you?


Public subsidies for the development of wind power in the UK are dwarfed by the tax breaks enjoyed by fossil fuels
...
Gas, oil and coal prices were subsidised by £3.63bn in 2010, according to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

Wind power still gets lower public subsidies than fossil fuel tax breaks | Environment | The Guardian

 

[sawyerloggingon]

When you run around screaming THE EARTH IS WARMING, THE EARTH IS WARMING and then you live just like I do or even "worse" you are a complete hypocrite on par with a television evangelist telling me to repent as he pockets the donations to gamble with and cheats on his wife. If you move close to your job so you can bike to work and never ever board a plane,train or automobile and have a roof full of solar panels I will take you and your opinion seriously, until then you are worth nothing but ridicule.

 

[longview]

I think there is some middle ground where photo voltaic s can be useful and save some money.
many of the incompatibilities come from the high start up currents required of AC motors.
So to run you AC, Fridge, Washing machine, Furnace blower...ect, you need an installed capacity
much greater than your average usage. Grid tying solves this,
but add much cost and complexity to the system.
There also seems to be a large markup on anything "green".
I think people who just want to feel they are doing their part, no matter the cost,
are running up the cost for people who would like to actually have something that reduced our energy costs.

 

[UtahBill]

I live in AZ in the winter months and nothern Utah during the summer months....in the winter I set the Utah thermostat at 45 degrees (gas heat and passive solar) and head to Arizona. During summers our AZ house has everything turned off. I tried setting the thermostat at its highest setting, about 90 degrees, but the AC still ran too much and our bill there was around $100 per month. It is bad enough that we are paying almost $60 per month for water, sewer, and garbage pickup for an empty house, no sense in paying to keep that empty house cool.
Our Utah summer AC bill is kept low because every night I open 2 basement windows and 2 loft windows and let the 55 to 70 degree night air (depending on humidity and monsoon season) cool off the basement, which has a solid concrete center wall for extra thermal mass. If we lived in the basement full time, we wouldn't need AC at all, as it rarely gets over 72 degrees. Every morning I close those windows. If during the day the main floor reaches 79 degrees, the thermostat turns the main floor air handler on, but since there is no outside unit attached, all it does is mix the cooler basement air with main floor air and blows it around the house. If the loft area gets to 80 degrees, and it usually does in the afternoon, the upstairs AC turns on. That chilled air "spills" down the stairs to the main floor. We have 1850 sq. ft. on main floor, a little less in the basement, and about 900 sq. ft. in the loft area.
We keep our house cool with a single 3.5 ton AC unit. THIS summer has been really hot, and that small unit is working a lot more than normal.
If the decision had been solely up to me, we would have an evap cooler, but the wife said no...
Our worst electric bill so far, in 5 years, has been $121, not bad for about 4500 sq. ft.. We use gas only for heat and hot water.

 

[Deuce]

When you run around screaming THE EARTH IS WARMING, THE EARTH IS WARMING and then you live just like I do or even "worse" you are a complete hypocrite on par with a television evangelist telling me to repent as he pockets the donations to gamble with and cheats on his wife. If you move close to your job so you can bike to work and never ever board a plane,train or automobile and have a roof full of solar panels I will take you and your opinion seriously, until then you are worth nothing but ridicule.

So I get to exaggerate your opinions all I want? Sweet!

Sawyer literally wants to burn down the planet because I said so. Just like some of us are "running around screaming." Also, sawyer is telepathic and knows what my carbon footprint is, and science doesn't count because Al Gore flies on a jet. Al Gore's choice as to fly on a jet or not determines whether carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. On that line of reasoning, reducing taxes doesn't help the economy one bit because that one guy who says we should reduce taxes happens to evade taxes.

Anyone remember when sawyer was complaining about not finding real debate? It's so much nicer now that he's being honest. "I'm not going to listen to you so neener neener."

 

[sawyerloggingon]

So I get to exaggerate your opinions all I want? Sweet!

Sawyer literally wants to burn down the planet because I said so. Just like some of us are "running around screaming." Also, sawyer is telepathic and knows what my carbon footprint is, and science doesn't count because Al Gore flies on a jet. Al Gore's choice as to fly on a jet or not determines whether carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. On that line of reasoning, reducing taxes doesn't help the economy one bit because that one guy who says we should reduce taxes happens to evade taxes.

Anyone remember when sawyer was complaining about not finding real debate? It's so much nicer now that he's being honest. "I'm not going to listen to you so neener neener."

Sorry but it's hard to take you serious when you think dinosaurs ruled the earth just a million years ago, neeeners neeners.:lol: Now that I have responded in kind can we stop the personal insults and discuss issues?

 

[flogger]

So your increased costs would be offset by assistance required.

And who will pay for that assistance ?

 

[UtahBill]

It takes too long to implement a major shift in energy sources, and energy isn't a free market in the same sense that televisions and cars are. The nature of electrical infrastructure precludes the possibility of proper competition. Free market libertarianism has some fundamental problems when applied to some situations where those market forces are not present.

Basically, if we wait until solar power hits the break even point with gasoline, it'll be another 10 years before any significant strides are made in implementing solar power, at which point we've cost ourselves enormous financial strain because we were too short-sighted.

solar and gasoline in the same sentence? Using current technologies, we have lots of ways to make electricity, only one way to make gasoline. There are 2 issues here, and they only overlap a tiny bit when electricity is used to power cars...

 

[UtahBill]

I think there is some middle ground where photo voltaic s can be useful and save some money.
many of the incompatibilities come from the high start up currents required of AC motors.
So to run you AC, Fridge, Washing machine, Furnace blower...ect, you need an installed capacity
much greater than your average usage. Grid tying solves this,
but add much cost and complexity to the system.
There also seems to be a large markup on anything "green".
I think people who just want to feel they are doing their part, no matter the cost,
are running up the cost for people who would like to actually have something that reduced our energy costs.

Not enough people are aware of the need to conserve....RMI, Rocky Mt. Institute, just said in its blog that a study of military housing in Hawaii showed up to a 4 fold difference in energy use in identical units, meaning that lifestyle of the human occupants is a big part of the energy problem.
When I was in Navy housing, they didn't charge me for electricity, gas, water, etc. Perhaps they should....people who are getting free utilities are not too concerned about conserving.
One of my neighbors in AZ was telling me that his wife likes the house cold, so his summer electric bills are around $700 a month.
I think I paid around $200 a month at the most. A progressive rate structure might make people change their ways. If she had to pay an extra $300 per month fee for having her house so cold, she might change her mind about the thermostat setting. If not, the fees collected can be used to subsidize whatever green energy the utility has to offer. Arizona Public Service does have some solar panels attached to their grid...

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Not enough people are aware of the need to conserve....RMI, Rocky Mt. Institute, just said in its blog that a study of military housing in Hawaii showed up to a 4 fold difference in energy use in identical units, meaning that lifestyle of the human occupants is a big part of the energy problem.
When I was in Navy housing, they didn't charge me for electricity, gas, water, etc. Perhaps they should....people who are getting free utilities are not too concerned about conserving.
One of my neighbors in AZ was telling me that his wife likes the house cold, so his summer electric bills are around $700 a month.
I think I paid around $200 a month at the most. A progressive rate structure might make people change their ways. If she had to pay an extra $300 per month fee for having her house so cold, she might change her mind about the thermostat setting. If not, the fees collected can be used to subsidize whatever green energy the utility has to offer. Arizona Public Service does have some solar panels attached to their grid...

A progressive rate structure is loss of personal freedom, it is big brother and social engineering.

 

[UtahBill]

A progressive rate structure is loss of personal freedom, it is big brother and social engineering.

Your personal freedom stops when the welfare of the nation is being considered. Besides, the freedom isn't lost, it just costs more.:2razz:

 

[Helix]

i bought a more fuel efficient vehicle, and took a job as close to home as possible. also, for nine months out of the year, i pretty much walk everywhere that it's feasible to walk. has the added benefit of being a great form of exercise.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Your personal freedom stops when the welfare of the nation is being considered. Besides, the freedom isn't lost, it just costs more.:2razz:

When the gov tells me how warm or cool I am allowed to keep MY HOME, I will have lost freedom. The constitution guarantees my pursuit of happiness. A warm cozy house in the dead of winter makes me happy.

 

[UtahBill]

When the gov tells me how warm or cool I am allowed to keep MY HOME, I will have lost freedom. The constitution guarantees my pursuit of happiness. A warm cozy house in the dead of winter makes me happy.

Freedom ain't free....:2razz:

 

[UtahBill]

Interesting study that shows the human factor is at least as important, probably more so, than all the technical gadgetry available when it comes to energy "efficiency"....


Living Green Improving Military Energy Behavior & Culture : Center for a Better Life

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Your personal freedom stops when the welfare of the nation is being considered. Besides, the freedom isn't lost, it just costs more.:2razz:

Like this?

"Collectivism is the doctrine that the social collective -- called society, the people, the state, etc. -- has rights, needs, or moral authority above and apart from the individuals who comprise it. We hear this idea continually championed in such familiar platitudes as 'the needs of the people take precedence over the rights of the individual,' 'production for people, not profits,' and 'the common good."

 

[UtahBill]

Like this?

"Collectivism is the doctrine that the social collective -- called society, the people, the state, etc. -- has rights, needs, or moral authority above and apart from the individuals who comprise it. We hear this idea continually championed in such familiar platitudes as 'the needs of the people take precedence over the rights of the individual,' 'production for people, not profits,' and 'the common good."

nothing like that.....we don't have the right to cheap utilities, or the right to waste resources...

 

[sawyerloggingon]

nothing like that.....we don't have the right to cheap utilities, or the right to waste resources...

We have the right to resources at market price and yes we really do have the right to waste resources if by waste you mean drive a big car, fly a private plane, water ski in a powerful boat and above all keep your house as warm as you want it to be in winter or as cool as you want it in summer.

 

[UtahBill]

We have the right to resources at market price and yes we really do have the right to waste resources if by waste you mean drive a big car, fly a private plane, water ski in a powerful boat and above all keep your house as warm as you want it to be in winter or as cool as you want it in summer.

I guess that comes under "pursuit of happiness"?

 

[Catawba]

**** in your backyard and what you do about it -

Stop ****ting in your backyard.


Glad I could help! :2wave:

 

[Boycott CAFOs]

I don't eat animal products. :mrgreen: They are the number one contributor to global warming.

The War Has Only Vegan!: Environment

I also ride my bike, recycle, always think before I buy something "Do I really need this?", and am growing my own garden.

It's really so easy living this way for me - I don't see why people make out like it's difficult.

 

[code1211]

I sure hope that's a joke. I can't imagine her electric bills if it's not.

I have personally been responsible for well over 100 overhead fluorescent lights remaining off for a minimum of two to three hours every day in office-land and in the cafeteria at my work.

For whatever reason there were people who would turn on hundreds of lights just to walk through an area at 5:00am.

I posted signs at the light switches asking for lights to remain off so that we could save money and increase profits.

It worked. Hours go by everyday with nothing more than the emergency lighting on.

For no other reason than I posted two signs on two light switches.

That is how this particular dragon dies. The death of a thousand cuts.

However, the dragon you are slaying is energy consumption. Not global Warming.