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Give a man a fish he eats for a day...

Slingshot Bob said:
Yeah, that is why when there is a police involved shooting they dump about 50 stray rounds into neigborhoods from there evil high capacity magazines:roll:
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Officer #1: "Keep shootin'!"
Officer #2: "But sir, he's dead-"
Officer #1: "I said keep shootin', dammit!"
 
TurtleDude said:
if part of a paid teachers' job is protecting his students that makes him as much a professional as a guy who is paid to write traffic tickets and be a school resources officer. so your stupid "professional/amateur" argument just went down the toilet
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No. A teacher will be an amateur with a gun.
 
TurtleDude said:
if part of a paid teachers' job is protecting his students that makes him as much a professional as a guy who is paid to write traffic tickets and be a school resources officer. so your stupid "professional/amateur" argument just went down the toilet
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Me and a friend are going on 110 acers this afternoon on a hog hunt, he will have his 30 30 and I will have my 44 cap n ball. Gee, I hope us "amateurs" don't wind up shooting ourselves !
 
vegas giants said:
I am not claiming that cops are professionals. They ARE professionals. I am presenting facts not opinions. You want amateurs. That is also a fact
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You are however conflating "professional" with "sufficiently skilled" and denying that "amateurs" can be "sufficiently skilled".

Here are your professionals:

"Two bystanders were injured by police bullets in 2014 in two separate incidents during ID-AC incidents.
One was struck in the left upper thigh and the other in the lower right back; both were subsequently listed
as stable. In a separate incident, a victim of a violent assault was inadvertently struck and killed by police
gunfire when officers attempted to prevent the perpetrator from attacking others."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...d_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2014V2.pdf

"10 bystanders were injured by police bullets during 2 ID-AC incidents in 2012. During the first incident, a bystander was injured when an emotionally disturbed person lunged at officers with a carving knife inside an apartment. The second incident resulted in injuries to 9 bystanders. The subject involved had shot and killed his former employer on a crowded sidewalk in front of the Empire State Building at approximately 0900 hours. A witness pointed out the subject to 2 officers, who attempted to stop him. As they approached, he turned and pointed a loaded semiautomatic pistol at the officers. The officers fired a total of 16 rounds, striking the subject 9 times. 9 bystanders were injured by police bullets or fragments."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...ypd_annual_firearms_discharge_report_2012.pdf

Here are your amateurs:

Chicago, April 2015.
Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.
The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.
A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.
The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.

March
Philadelphia, March 2015
Police say a man likely saved the lives of several people when he shot and killed a gunman inside a West Philadelphia barbershop. A 40-year-old man was inside Falah Barber Shop Inc. on the 600 block of Preston Street shortly before 3 p.m. Sunday when police say he began fighting with another person inside. "They were arguing," said 16-year-old Yusaf Mack who was a customer inside the shop at the time. "They were taking it too far and one of the barbers said, 'chill out.'"

The fight quickly escalated and the 40-year-old man took out his gun and opened fire on customers and barbers, police said. "I heard gunshots so I ducked and I ran," said Mack. As he was shooting, another man outside heard the gunfire, ran into the shop and took out his own gun, according to investigators. He then opened fire, striking the 40-year-old man once in the chest. "He just shot him and when he was done shooting he ran," Mack said.

The 40-year-old man was taken to Presbyterian Hospital where he later died from his injuries. Police have not yet revealed his identity. Police said there were children inside the shop at the time but no one else was hurt.
 
vegas giants said:
No. A teacher will be an amateur with a gun.
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That in no way limits their capabilities, skill level or usefulness against an active shooter. The original discussion was on allowing those with CCWs to carry on school property. TD is not a professional LEO. Odds are he's much more skilled than a first responding cop or school resource officer.
 
TheGoverness said:
Officer #1: "Keep shootin'!"
Officer #2: "But sir, he's dead-"
Officer #1: "I said keep shootin', dammit!"
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That's about the size of it, the average cop that never shoots on their own time, are horid shots. I have talked guns with cops on a couple of occasions, about the only thing they seemed to know about guns, was which end to point in the proper direction.
 
vegas giants said:
I have to look at what would be the statistical rate of accident in arming thousands of teachers every day. I also look at the likelyhood of poor decision making in firing their gun when there was no need or not doing it safely. I want professionals. You want amateurs
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You mean those professional cops we keep seeing on the news shooting unarmed people?
 
vegas giants said:
Again it is not about aim. It is about the decision to fire at all. You want amateurs making that decision. I want professionals
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armed teachers are professionals in protecting their students. your stupid argument is dismissed as stupid. In Ohio, the Tactical Defense Institute is training teachers in districts that want armed teachers. TDI is a cutting edge state of the art facility and its training is far superior to what most cops get
 
Rucker61 said:
That in no way limits their capabilities, skill level or usefulness against an active shooter. The original discussion was on allowing those with CCWs to carry on school property. TD is not a professional LEO. Odds are he's much more skilled than a first responding cop or school resource officer.
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I was considered a LEO but not in the traditional sense. I was a prosecutor. but you are right. I have hundreds of hours of formal training-mainly shoot/don't shoot and was at one time one of the top 100 USPSA open level shooters and then limited division shooters in the country. Still one of the top speed shooters in this part of the country and when I lose a match, its invariably to someone 16-25 years younger
 
TurtleDude said:
I was considered a LEO but not in the traditional sense. I was a prosecutor. but you are right. I have hundreds of hours of formal training-mainly shoot/don't shoot and was at one time one of the top 100 USPSA open level shooters and then limited division shooters in the country. Still one of the top speed shooters in this part of the country and when I lose a match, its invariably to someone 16-25 years younger
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I bet a good deal of cops stress over their firearms certification range time, what every 6 months? I hear it is very basic and easy to pass. I bet if they fail to qualify, they get to keep shooting until they pass.
 
TurtleDude said:
armed teachers are professionals in protecting their students. your stupid argument is dismissed as stupid. In Ohio, the Tactical Defense Institute is training teachers in districts that want armed teachers. TDI is a cutting edge state of the art facility and its training is far superior to what most cops get
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You said protecting. You meant educating. There.... I fixed it for you
 
Rucker61 said:
You mean those professional cops we keep seeing on the news shooting unarmed people?
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What percentage of the total do you think they are? you are making my point
 
vegas giants said:
You said protecting. You meant educating. There.... I fixed it for you
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Do teachers have the responsibility to notify authorities if they suspect that a student is being abused at home?
 
Rucker61 said:
Do teachers have the responsibility to notify authorities if they suspect that a student is being abused at home?
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Yes. They are not expected to go to the home and arrest the abuser. They are to make a phone call
 
vegas giants said:
Yes. They are not expected to go to the home and arrest the abuser. They are to make a phone call
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That's still protection, not teaching. Do you think that if a active shooter shows up in their classroom that the preferred solution is make a phone call? Or simply die in place?
 
Rucker61 said:
That's still protection, not teaching. Do you think that if a active shooter shows up in their classroom that the preferred solution is make a phone call? Or simply die in place?
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If they do not attack the attacker....are they charged with derelection of duty?
 
Rucker61 said:
Then you've no rational basis for your opposition to non-police trained CCW being armed in schools, with or without police presence.
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Are you saying the number is low? Please present your evidence
 
vegas giants said:
I have to look at what would be the statistical rate of accident in arming thousands of teachers every day. I also look at the likelyhood of poor decision making in firing their gun when there was no need or not doing it safely. I want professionals. You want amateurs
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I want those who use weapons for good, not evil, to have them. I would dare say that the average guy who hunts for sport and/or shoots skeet and/or target shoots for recreation is going to be a far better shot than your average police officer. Yes, the police do get training that the average civilian doesn't. But the police officer is also trained to shoot immediately/first in threatening situations which of course results in more police shootings that maybe weren't necessary but it also saves a lot of police officers' lives. We could legitimately debate whether saving of the officers' lives justifies the unnecessary shootings.

In the situations in which a civilian is likely to shoot a perpetrator, the danger and circumstances are generally perfectly clear and require no special training for decision making purposes.
 
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