Get A Damn Job!

[What if...?]

T

Gee, I wonder what people did before the easier access to unemployment benefits plus the added Federal bonus money all due to Covid-19 shut-downs?

Oh yeah, THEY FOUND WORK, even if it wasn't what they wanted, but paid the bills until they found a better job, that's what.

I have very little sympathy for people who are boo-hooing over not being able to get Federal benefits anymore.

Work is out there Folks. Get a job.

The only people I hear boo hooing is y'all. Why won't the peasants fulfill their assigned roles? Why did they decide to do something else in their downtime.

Y'all assume the worst about everybody. I persoanlly know three people who started businesses that are doing OK. Several more found things they liked in the gig economy. Task rabbit, making more than they did with the union.

Those people are working. They're just not counted as "employed".

At this point y'all have been convinced that folks are living on the dole. But that "dole" ended in September. And you can't bring yourselves to let it go.

Kinda like the election.

 

[bave]

It was covered on the local news during the pandemic.

I have no idea what your local news said, nor how you interpreted it, however the data is out there. What you are saying is simply not factually true and if it were, it would make no sense. If what you were saying is true, that means oil companies would be sitting on readily accessible crude, intentionally, during a time of the highest prices in 7 years in a tight high demand market? Yea, okay.

You and the LA Lakers have something in common then.

As well as almost every other small business in the US. What's your point? Spit it out.

Well, what I said was the last direct stimulus check went out in February.

There are always programs to assist this group or that group. There are more since covid hit because the need was greater.

What you said was trying to focus narrowly on government cheese by intentionally ignoring the greater picture to paint the picture you want, not exactly slick.

The need is still greater now? More open jobs than people looking for jobs but we still need all these extra programs? Pfft. Vote buying, hell the georgia senate billboards said as much.

As I stated; I think we should have just transferred payroll to the federal government instead of giving loans to people who then turned around and then paid other people from those loans. IF you're paying someone a premium...pay the people who showed up during the pandemic; not those who didn't.

Again, this is stupid and ignorant to how the system works. What department in the federal government was going to do this? What department was going to be able to seamlessly and quickly absorb payroll for tens of millions of employees in various jurisdictions across the nation?

 

[eohrnberger]

You can't prove that the rise in various product/service pricing is due to non-pandemic related increases in labor cost more than other reasons. Two yrs ago, over 40% of workers were being paid an avg of about $12/hr. Labor cost is typically 20-35% of gross sales, or an avg of 27.5%. Accounting for health insurance and benefits, the wage portion, incl overtime, bonus, etc, is about 65% of that 27.5%, or 17.9%. Going to $15/hr from $12 would be +25% x 17.9 = 4.5% x 40% of the labor force = +3.6% in the cost of product/service due to an avg $3/hr increase in wages for 40% of the workforce. According to the BLS, employee compensation rose 3.7% for the yr ending Sep 2021 whereas Producer Price Index went up 8.6%. Prices are going up higher mostly for other reasons than increasing wages, let alone how much of wage increase is due to the pandemic.

I guess you missed reading the summation.
"Sure, some of the inflation is attributable to COVID and supply chain issues, just as some of inflation is attributable this increased labor cost."

 

[dncc]

I have no idea what your local news said, nor how you interpreted it, however the data is out there. What you are saying is simply not factually true and if it were, it would make no sense. If what you were saying is true, that means oil companies would be sitting on readily accessible crude, intentionally, during a time of the highest prices in 7 years in a tight high demand market? Yea, okay.

They were talking about the oil patch jobs disappearing because the price of gasoline was so low.

As well as almost every other small business in the US. What's your point? Spit it out.

The Lakers are a "small business"? Do tell.

What you said was trying to focus narrowly on government cheese by intentionally ignoring the greater picture to paint the picture you want, not exactly slick.

I was talking about direct stimulus. Like student loans, there is government aid available for many groups. That was the extent of my comments.

The need is still greater now? More open jobs than people looking for jobs but we still need all these extra programs? Pfft. Vote buying, hell the georgia senate billboards said as much.

Strange how the "vote buying" didn't work for the person who was in office at the time of purchase when Georgia flipped blue.

Who was that again?

Again, this is stupid and ignorant to how the system works. What department in the federal government was going to do this? What department was going to be able to seamlessly and quickly absorb payroll for tens of millions of employees in various jurisdictions across the nation?

Perhaps.

Every year, presumably every income earner across the nation pays taxes. A government agency collects them...and issues a return...and investigates....

Look..earlier you said that "every [other] small business" got a loan. The SBA approved them as I recall.

Doing so, would have at least bypassed the Rube Goldberg type of mechanism by which companies had to apply for loans, banks had to manage the loans, the favoritism, the waste, etc...

Lawsuit alleges Wells Fargo unfairly shuffled Paycheck Protection Program applications

The move meant that Wells Fargo would receive millions more dollars in processing fees, according to the lawsuit.

www.usatoday.com

 

[bave]

They were talking about the oil patch jobs disappearing because the price of gasoline was so low.

Like I said, the data is reported from official sources and contradicts your random recollection of a local tv news report.

The Lakers are a "small business"? Do tell.

What's the question? The SBA defines a small business as up to 1500 employees. Not sure how many employees the Lakers have, but I am pretty sure it is well below that.

I was talking about direct stimulus. Like student loans, there is government aid available for many groups. That was the extent of my comments.

You can reframe it how you like, the conversation is about government cheese programs to buy votes, direct or otherwise.

Strange how the "vote buying" didn't work for the person who was in office at the time of purchase when Georgia flipped blue.

Largely because the vote buying was the promise of new $$$ if they voted in Warnock/Ossoff, which they did, and they got.

Perhaps.

Every year, presumably every income earner across the nation pays taxes. A government agency collects them...and issues a return...and investigates....

Look..earlier you said that "every [other] small business" got a loan. The SBA approved them as I recall.

Doing so, would have at least bypassed the Rube Goldberg type of mechanism by which companies had to apply for loans, banks had to manage the loans, the favoritism, the waste, etc...

Lawsuit alleges Wells Fargo unfairly shuffled Paycheck Protection Program applications

The move meant that Wells Fargo would receive millions more dollars in processing fees, according to the lawsuit.

www.usatoday.com

No, not perhaps, fact.

The SBA approved the loans through administering banks (read: private banks) and via retroactive approvals. There is no way a federal agency could do this. The IRS has no ability to validate employment, wages, etc in real time, let alone in a gross fashion.

Jesus, stop commenting about things you don't understand.

 

[tres borrachos]

Like I said, the data is reported from official sources and contradicts your random recollection of a local tv news report.



What's the question? The SBA defines a small business as up to 1500 employees. Not sure how many employees the Lakers have, but I am pretty sure it is well below that.



You can reframe it how you like, the conversation is about government cheese programs to buy votes, direct or otherwise.



Largely because the vote buying was the promise of new $$$ if they voted in Warnock/Ossoff, which they did, and they got.





No, not perhaps, fact.

The SBA approved the loans through administering banks (read: private banks) and via retroactive approvals. There is no way a federal agency could do this. The IRS has no ability to validate employment, wages, etc in real time, let alone in a gross fashion.

Jesus, stop commenting about things you don't understand.

The SBA almost defines a small business as having less than $38 million in revenue. In 2019 the Lakers had over $400 million in revenue. They are valued at almost $5 billion. They are not a small business by the SBA requirements.

 

[bave]

The SBA almost defines a small business as having less than $38 million in revenue. In 2019 the Lakers had over $400 million in revenue. They are valued at almost $5 billion. They are not a small business by the SBA requirements.

True, but I can only imagine how a sports team recognizes revenue. I am sure it is a heavily layered organizational structure.

 

[dncc]

Like I said, the data is reported from official sources and contradicts your random recollection of a local tv news report.

Was just telling you about the untapped wells and job losses in the oil patch.

What's the question? The SBA defines a small business as up to 1500 employees. Not sure how many employees the Lakers have, but I am pretty sure it is well below that.

Bailing out an enterprise that pays their employees hundreds of millions of dollars is pretty lame. Defending it...even lamer.

You can reframe it how you like, the conversation is about government cheese programs to buy votes, direct or otherwise.

There is no reframing. Trump signed off on stimulus.

Largely because the vote buying was the promise of new $$$ if they voted in Warnock/Ossoff, which they did, and they got.

Trump signed off on stimulus and said he wanted the checks to be higher. Or are you going to pretend that didn't happen too?

No, not perhaps, fact.

The SBA approved the loans through administering banks (read: private banks) and via retroactive approvals. There is no way a federal agency could do this. The IRS has no ability to validate employment, wages, etc in real time, let alone in a gross fashion.

Jesus, stop commenting about things you don't understand.

The same people who administered tens of millions of loans couldn't have authorized payments to the same businesses?

wow.

 

[OscarLevant]

Raising the MW also requires raising the wages/salaries of those now making MW+X as well. Folks aren’t going to put up with working for less in relation to the (then raised) MW. Using the typical McDonalds price example does not (usually) take into account that when all wages go up, so does the cost of each ingredient, their delivery costs and the cost of utilities.

Those living on pension incomes would also require a raise to avoid suffering when the prices of everything go up due to the mandated (across the board) increase in labor costs.

As long as they don't overdo it on the MW, prices do not go up as much as you might think.

If 25% of expense are on wages, and raising the wage on the bottom rung increases the overall expenditure to 28% (since the bottom rung is not the majority of employees in the overall corporation, in terms of outlay), thus increases overall total of expenses by 2%, won't increase the price of a hamburger as much as you might think.

 

[ttwtt78640]

As long as they don't overdo it on the MW, prices do not go up as much as you might think.

If 25% of expense are on wages, and raising the wage on the bottom rung increases the overall expenditure to 28% (since the bottom rung is not the majority of employees in the overall corporation, in terms of outlay), thus increases overall total of expenses by 2%, won't increase the price of a hamburger as much as you might think.

View attachment 67359786

You missed my point entirely. If the McManager now makes MW+$7/hour ($14/hour) and the MW (starting McWorker pay) is raised from $7/hour to $14/hour then the McManager should be paid $21/hour (still MW+$7/hour) not remain being paid at $14/hour (MW+$0/hour).

 

[eohrnberger]

You missed my point entirely. If the McManager now makes MW+$7/hour ($14/hour) and the MW (starting McWorker pay) is raised from $7/hour to $14/hour then the McManager should be paid $21/hour (still MW+$7/hour) not remain being paid at $14/hour (MW+$0/hour).

Wage inflation has rippling effects through the economy, but this is simply some can't comprehend, unfortunately.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Wage inflation has rippling effects through the economy, but this is simply some can't comprehend, unfortunately.

Yep, some assume that a large MW increase means that McWorkers would catch up to making what McManagers would then (still?) make. Of course, that is not what happens.

What would happen (with a $14/hour MW) is that (full-time) McWorkers would end up making more than the average Social Security retirement benefit. Wage inflation is not so wonderful in that case.

 

[OscarLevant]

You missed my point entirely. If the McManager now makes MW+$7/hour ($14/hour) and the MW (starting McWorker pay) is raised from $7/hour to $14/hour then the McManager should be paid $21/hour (still MW+$7/hour) not remain being paid at $14/hour (MW+$0/hour).

I believe they are, yet the burgers are affordable, still. That's about right for a city like San Diego, L.A. or Seattle.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I believe they are, yet the burgers are affordable, still. That's about right for a city like San Diego, L.A. or Seattle.

OK, but that seems like you support having a variable MW established at the local government level. Why is that not also appropriate for Social Security retirement benefit levels?

 

[OscarLevant]

OK, but that seems like you support having a variable MW established at the local government level. Why is that not also appropriate for Social Security retirement benefit levels?

Here's what I'm for:

A national baseline, probably what it was in the 60s, which, to day, adjusting for inflation, is about $10 - $11 an hour.

Then a federal commission to over see and coordinate with mandated state commissions to study & determine appropriate minimum wages for the various counties, which can be at, or above, the federal base line. The MWs would differ for jobs that have room and board paid for , would differ for teenagers under the age of 18.

As for Soc Sec, what we receive is a baseline, I would be for COL adjustments for more expensive regions. However, Soc Sec payouts has a lot to do size of contribution, so it gets complicated, but complicated isn't a problem for our government.

 

[bluesmoke]

You can't force someone to be wise with their money. My point is that median households today are in far better shape income speaking. Their gross income is higher, their taxes lower, and their government cheese deliveries far higher. If they can't turn that into an improved wealth position then it speaks to household mismanagement, nothing more.

The disparity in wealth increase is because of investment performance and global market growth, not because of the lower and middle class being in a worse position. All data points to the middle income being in a far superior position than they wer ein forty years ago.

There is, and never will be, a fair share distribution of wealth. The rich in this country already pay a disproportionate amount of taxes by any metric. The clowns are never sated though and constantly chirp about statistics and metrics that either don't make sense, are totally inaccurate, and simply taken out of context.

That's why they are poor. If you want to blame someone else fo your poverty and poor financial situation, that probably explains more about your situation than the other guy you are bitching about.

The gross income is not so much higher as to be swimming in dollars as has been in increase at the higher levels. Lower taxes did not help the lower half of income earners. Most certainly, not the lowest. Govt assistance went up by necessity due to COVID, by which the rich and large corps also benefited. The Trump/Rep tax plan was a cheese delivery on a gold platter.

The increased middle incomes were not enough to buy-in to that global market growth.

The economic pattern is that when median income goes up, so does spending and the economy which feeds the stock market that the rich and large corps benefit from. Those whose income has gone up still don't have the money to invest in the stock that their spending benefited.

If the rich pay what you might believe as "proportionate", we wouldn't have the revenue to run the gov't. Which may be what you want.

What you're saying is that people that don't have enough money to support good decision, such as investment, are making bad decision for not investing/saving but instead spending on family expenses that supports the economy and the stock market that those with more benefit by.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The SBA almost defines a small business as having less than $38 million in revenue. In 2019 the Lakers had over $400 million in revenue. They are valued at almost $5 billion. They are not a small business by the SBA requirements.

There is no consistency among the many federal definitions of “large” and “small” employers (businesses). For example, PPACA uses 50 (or more) employees as the divide while the OSHA vaccine mandates use 100 (or more) employees as the divide and the SBA apparently ignores the number of employees entirely, although I have read that the SBA considers a business to be “large” if it has 500 (or more) employees, and uses the amount of (gross?) revenue.

 

[bave]

The gross income is not so much higher as to be swimming in dollars as has been in increase at the higher levels. Lower taxes did not help the lower half of income earners. Most certainly, not the lowest. Govt assistance went up by necessity due to COVID, by which the rich and large corps also benefited. The Trump/Rep tax plan was a cheese delivery on a gold platter.

This is so comically wrong it is sad.

 

[bluesmoke]

I guess you missed reading the summation.
"Sure, some of the inflation is attributable to COVID and supply chain issues, just as some of inflation is attributable this increased labor cost."

You guessed wrong. Your assumption is a false equivalency, as if COVID and supply chain issues are equivalent to increased labor cost for your quantifying both as "some". You must have missed my data that showed labor cost was a relatively small part of the increase increase in the PPI, which drives consumer pricing. Not only did what you said not evidence of fact to prove that the rise in various product/service pricing is due to non-pandemic related increases in labor cost more than other reasons, I then refuted it. I didn't have to refute the assumption as it was unfounded for lack of evidence to begin with. Now, I've proved it wrong.

 

[eohrnberger]

You guessed wrong. Your assumption is a false equivalency, as if COVID and supply chain issues are equivalent to increased labor cost for your quantifying both as "some". You must have missed my data that showed labor cost was a relatively small part of the increase increase in the PPI, which drives consumer pricing.

'Some' = 'relatively small part'
You've not refuted nor disproven anything from what I posted.

Not only did what you said not evidence of fact to prove that the rise in various product/service pricing is due to non-pandemic related increases in labor cost more than other reasons, I then refuted it. I didn't have to refute the assumption as it was unfounded for lack of evidence to begin with. Now, I've proved it wrong.

 

[bluesmoke]

This is so comically wrong it is sad.

That your sadness is the measure of how you rate the facts of the matter is where the humor lies and your lack of evidence belies reasoning. See you on another thread.

 

[bluesmoke]

'Some' = 'relatively small part'
You've not refuted nor disproven anything from what I posted.

You equated “COVID and supply chain issues” as equal to that of “increased labor cost”, both as being “some”. You gave no proof that they are of equivalent cost. Thus, your claim is unfounded and I need not disprove the claim. Furthermore, I gave data evidence that labor cost was not a large part of the increase in PPI compared to other cost, which in your comparison to labor cost is COVID and supply chain issues, which you’ve chosen to ignore. You’ve provided not data, no evidence. None. I have. See you on another thread.