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Germany to Oppose New Missiles in Europe if US Scraps INF Treaty

Godric1970

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Germany and other EU countries will not base US nukes ... your only allies in Europe are Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania and the remains of the UK after Scotland leaves .... America has become a threat to EU security

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201812261071008805-germany-europe-missiles-inf/

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said last month that the alliance had no plans to deploy new nuclear missiles in Europe. However, the US' looming pull-out of the INF Treaty with Russia has raised concerns that Washington might seek a nuclear build-up in Europe.

Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said on Wednesday that Berlin would oppose the deployment of new medium-range missiles on the European soil in the event of the INF Treaty's demise.

"Europe must under no circumstances become a platform for an arms race debate", Maas told told DPA news agency as cited by the daily Tiroler Tageszeitung. "The deployment of new medium-range missiles would encounter broad opposition in Germany".

He went on to call nuclear build-up a "wrong answer", saying that Cold War-era tactics would not help sort out today's issues.

etc, etc
 

ecofarm

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Sputniknews dot com?
 

Westphalian

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Sputniknews dot com?


Godric is right .... don't shoot the messenger.


You can find these comments in western media if you look. Europe is not keen on being destroyed at the behest of Washington. It wasn't in the 1980s and is even less so now.


Unless of course you deny that Maas ever said what he's quoted as saying?
 

ecofarm

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Godric is right .... don't shoot the messenger.


You can find these comments in western media if you look. Europe is not keen on being destroyed at the behest of Washington. It wasn't in the 1980s and is even less so now.

I'll repeat the question.

Wtf is "sputniknews dot com"?

This is a debate website. Sources count. And one cannot erase presented bias in providing an alternate source. The debate can continue, but the OP's bias is forever established.

I'd be happy to continue the debate after that point is established. I will not continue without a recognition of the OP's shortcoming and bias. First thing first.
 
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PoS

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Pfft, those damned Germans have become wimps ever since the end of WW2. They need to put some new Prussian militarism into their backsides!
 

Chagos

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I'll repeat the question.

Wtf is "sputniknews dot com"?

This is a debate website. Sources count. And one cannot erase presented bias in providing an alternate source. The debate can continue, but the OP's bias is forever established.

I'd be happy to continue the debate after that point is established. I will not continue without a recognition of the OP's shortcoming and bias. First thing first.
Maas spoke as quoted, although it remains mysterious why Sputnik felt the need to cite some backwoods Daily (the Tyrolese) when it could have gone straight to more prominent German news sites like even the DPA (Deutsche Presseagentur = German Press Agency).

In anycase, what will eventually become official policy (or not) remains to be seen, because Russia's continuous breach of the INF has opened a whole new ball park game.

Europe (Germany included) is not all that keen (in paraphrasing Gospodin Vestfal'skaya) to be destroyed at the behest of the Kremlin either.
 

ecofarm

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Maas spoke as quoted, although it remains mysterious why Sputnik felt the need to cite some backwoods Daily (the Tyrolese) when it could have gone straight to more prominent German news sites like even the DPA (Deutsche Presseagentur = German Press Agency).

In anycase, what will eventually become official policy (or not) remains to be seen, because Russia's continuous breach of the INF has opened a whole new ball park game.

Europe (Germany included) is not all that keen (in paraphrasing Gospodin Vestfal'skaya) to be destroyed at the behest of the Kremlin either.

A vast and fascinating topic. And one probably best breached with a German source.
 

Chagos

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A vast and fascinating topic. And one probably best breached with a German source.
I can't find any German source reporting in English at the moment, what is conveniently omitted in the OP though is that the opposition of the German foreign minister to have nukes of the type in question on European soil, of necessity addresses the Kremlin as well.

The message that someone tries to convey here of Kremlin being able to continue its shenanigans, while Europe (Germany included) just bends over, is blatantly false.
 

ecofarm

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The message that someone tries to convey here of Kremlin being able to continue its shenanigans, while Europe (Germany included) just bends over, is blatantly false.

That's what I smelled.

With all the turbulence in NATO, I wonder what the military and missile base landscape will look like in two years.
 

Westphalian

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The tragedy of INF goes back many years, to the US breach of the treaty through its missile defense Mk-41 launchers in Poland and Romania.

Regarding 9M726, take it from me that they do not currently breach INF, but of course that could easily be changed which is part of the US problem.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-36269734
 

Rogue Valley

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Moscow has been in violation of the INF since 2010. They've done nothing about returning to INF compliance in the intervening 8 years.

Time's up.
 

Godric1970

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Pfft, those damned Germans have become wimps ever since the end of WW2. They need to put some new Prussian militarism into their backsides!

This has nothing to Germany bending over anyone it has everything to do with Americans actions and actions against Europe since W Bush that carried on under Obama and now Trump who has brought it to a head starting with the ABM treaty and the NSA and CIA spying and undermining EU security, power grids, governments, and EU businesses by giving US companies in trade deals they were competing with EU companies we have Edward Snowden to thank for this and the US destabilising Libya and Syria causing mass immigration to the EU ... the EU at that point should have told the US to p!ss off, now their is JCPOA, The Paris Agreement and INF and Trumps comments that the EU is America's foe this has proven to Europe that you are not our allies and we are p!ssed off with America trying to interfere in EU decisions ... take the hint we don't need or want your interference and Nordstream2 will go ahead regardless of America's objections .... it has feck all to do with America

https://sivpost.com/germany-protested-nuclear-missiles-in-europe/4008/

Germany opposes the deployment of nuclear medium-range missiles in Europe. This statement was made by Minister of foreign Affairs, Heiko Maas, Euronews reports, citing Agency DPA.

According to him, Europe is under no circumstances should not become a place where Russia and the USA will be facing off. “Nuclear armament is an absolutely wrong step”, — said the German Minister. Maas believes that the mentality of the cold war is not suitable to solve problems in the present,LENTA reports.

October 20, the US announced its withdrawal from the Treaty on intermediate and shorter-range missiles (INF Treaty). According to the American leader, Donald trump, Washington was forced to take such a step, as Moscow violates this agreement.

At the same time, the US does not plan to place in Europe missile prohibited by the INF Treaty, stated Advisor to the us President for homeland security John Bolton.

The INF Treaty does not allow parties to have ballistic missiles, land-based and cruise missiles with ranges between 500 and 5.5 thousand kilometers. Moscow and Washington have regularly accused each other of violating its terms.
 

Rogue Valley

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iskander_k.jpg


US Intelligence Chief Clarifies the Nature of Russia's INF Treaty Violation

NATO Foreign Ministers agree Russia is in violation of INF Treaty (includes the German Foreign Minister)

Nato accuses Russia of breaking nuclear missile treaty

Trump and NATO Show Rare Unity in Confronting Russia’s Arms Treaty Violation

Dutch Ministers Accuse Russia of Developing Cruise Missile Violating INF Treaty


A treaty, any treaty, is worthless unless adhered to and verifiable.
 

Westphalian

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Oh ........ a collection of news articles from the US's satellite states about how the US is right on INF :roll:


Pity it's taken Uncle Sam 4 years to convince its satellite states that its incontrovertible evidence of Russian wrong-doing is so convincing.


4 years :shock:
 

Rogue Valley

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Oh ........ a collection of news articles from the US's satellite states about how the US is right on INF :roll:


Pity it's taken Uncle Sam 4 years to convince its satellite states that its incontrovertible evidence of Russian wrong-doing is so convincing.


4 years :shock:

Whatever it required, the evidence presented was incontrovertible. None of the NATO Foreign Ministers is in love with Mr. Trump.

But the evidence(s) presented by US intelligence agencies CIA/NSA/NRO/DIA was very convincing.
 

Godric1970

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Whatever it required, the evidence presented was incontrovertible. None of the NATO Foreign Ministers is in love with Mr. Trump.

But the evidence(s) presented by US intelligence agencies CIA/NSA/NRO/DIA was very convincing.

as i have said before NATO is not the EU and the EU will refuse to base US nuclear weapon systems

we have had all this so called convincing evidence before in regards that was proven to be complete fabrication by the USA and it still does not hide the fact the US has broken the INF treaty by putting it's land based Ageis system in Romania a system which has been tested by the USA to fire Tomahawk missiles .... this has nothing to do with Russia but everything to do with China .... Trump wants China included in the INF
 

Westphalian

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Whatever it required, the evidence presented was incontrovertible. None of the NATO Foreign Ministers is in love with Mr. Trump.

But the evidence(s) presented by US intelligence agencies CIA/NSA/NRO/DIA was very convincing.


4 years - that's not 'very convincing'. Of that 4 years, 2 of them were under Obama. Clearly it wasn't convincing then either.


The more likely truth is therefore that the 'evidence' is actually quite under-whelming, and is based in part on assumptions and supposition. Unlike Saddam's WMD, this evidence was obviously in a different class of convincingness. We can only guess it was in fact quite un-convincing.

4 years and you call it 'very convincing':roll:

What planet are you on RV?
 

Rogue Valley

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as i have said before NATO is not the EU and the EU will refuse to base US nuclear weapon systems

Well, you let us know when you've replaced Jean-Claude Juncker and lead the European Commission.
 

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Oh ........ a collection of news articles from the US's satellite states about how the US is right on INF :roll:


Pity it's taken Uncle Sam 4 years to convince its satellite states that its incontrovertible evidence of Russian wrong-doing is so convincing.


4 years :shock:

Satellite states?

That died when the Warsaw Pact died and the wall fell.
 

Rogue Valley

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Well, actually ............... it really hasn't beyond a thin veneer.

Well actually it did. Just not in your "catastrophe of the century" mindset.
 

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Well, actually ............... it really hasn't beyond a thin veneer.

Huge difference.

Western nations while they may share interests were always independent nations.

Warsaw Pact/Soviet satellites were not independent from the USSR. Ask any one from Czechoslovakia or Hungary.
 

Westphalian

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Huge difference.

Western nations while they may share interests were always independent nations.

Warsaw Pact/Soviet satellites were not independent from the USSR. Ask any one from Czechoslovakia or Hungary.


Western nations are not independent of the US.


They are forced to support US foreign policy against their own interests, and some of them happily send their young people to die in pointless US wars. Only anti US public opinion occasionally forces these grovelling elites to pull back from the egregious consequences of their servitude. Coffins of dead young people killed in Iraq or Afghanstan can do that - but the lack of underlying independence remains.
 
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