Germans demand honour for Turkish woman beaten to death [W:43]

[süt]

Tugce Albayrak, a student of Turkish descent, was brutally beaten two weeks ago by three men in the car park of a fast food restaurant in Offenbach near Frankfurt.

She had confronted the men, who were of Serbian descent, after responding to cries for help from two girls, aged 13 and 16 in the toilet area of the restaurant.

Germans demand honour for Turkish woman beaten to death | euronews, world news


A woman sacrifices herself at early 20s without being mother and feeling having kids for two underage girls, and defends them against three men in a country that has treated her and her people as alien for decades.

Tragic and sad...

 

[DDD]

View attachment 67176622

Germans demand honour for Turkish woman beaten to death | euronews, world news

A woman sacrifices herself at early 20s without being mother and feeling having kids for two underage girls, and defends them against three men in a country that has treated her and her people as alien for decades.

Tragic and sad...

Serbs beating children to death is a downgrade from organizing massacres throughout the 1990's. Some Serbs may be celebrating this ordeal somewhere.

Have they caught the Serbian criminals yet?

 

[süt]

Serbs beating children to death is a downgrade from organizing massacres throughout the 1990's. Some Serbs may be celebrating this ordeal somewhere.

Have they caught the Serbian criminals yet?

They have, but the girls who witnessed have not come out yet.

 

[DDD]

They have, but the girls who witnessed have not come out yet.

So this Serbian criminal could be released if they do not come out yet?

 

[German guy]

View attachment 67176622



Germans demand honour for Turkish woman beaten to death | euronews, world news


A woman sacrifices herself at early 20s without being mother and feeling having kids for two underage girls, and defends them against three men in a country that has treated her and her people as alien for decades.

Tragic and sad...

You can't even let this go without making a bigoted smear comment against Germans here (obviously missing that the perpetrators weren't even German).

That is a pathetically low level.

And no word from you about this (male) Turkish scum in Germany that is usually the perpetrator of offenses against women. If you want Turks to be accepted in Germany, it's pretty simple: Stop playing the victim card and instead take some responsibility, and make your fellow Turks behave like civilized people who show the slightest respect towards women and native Germans. Way too many don't, and that's the only reason why many Germans have problems with Turkish here. Do that, and Germans will embrace Turkish here.

 

[ataturk]

Lets just establish teh facts before the liars (why do the left lie so much?) obfuscate the issue

This woman was murdered by Immigrants who were MUSLIM.

 

[German guy]

Lets just establish teh facts before the liars (why do the left lie so much?) obfuscate the issue

This woman was murdered by Immigrants who were MUSLIM.

For a long time, I was still hoping that it's coincidence, whenever I witnessed another example of a Muslim immigrant behaving like ****. I don't want to become a cynicist, intolerant and *angry* asshole.

But the immigrants from Turkey or Arab countries have to give me something to work with. I'm really angry at them, because they don't seem to miss any opportunity to prove the bigots and Nazis right.

Here some highlights from my list of experienced with immigrants from Muslim countries:

- Had a Turkish Muslim fellow pupil in elementary school. She was nice, and we found it interesting that she'd eat no pork and fast once per year. Years later, I met her again on Facebook where she was posting anti-Western talking points, pro-IS propaganda and about the pride of voluntarily wearing a scarf.

- Met a good friend of mine, a woman of Turkish parents. She's living a Western style of life and is perfectly German. However, her parents expulsed her when she decided to go partying and having German boyfriends before marriage. It became better again with her mother, when her father lost his residence permit and was deported after having been found guilty of petraying social welfare and petty theft. Her brother threatened to kill her with a knife "for damaging family honor". Her uncle is a cocaine and crack dealer who was recently arrested when he resisted a police raid (he clubbed on the police with a baseball bat).

- Seven years ago, I had a girlfriend with a 2 year old daughter. The father of her child was a Turkish guy. After our break-up, he wanted back to her, stalked her (the full program), finally raped her, until the police had to give her a new identity and had to take her out of the city for her own safety.

- Met two Turkish guys at college. They seemed okay.

- Two gay friends of mine were almost beaten up by a bunch of Turkish adolescents, after they witnessed them holding hands in public. They now always change the side of the street when they see Turkish people coming the way.

- Went to two different Turkish Döner Kebap stores with a pretty female buddy of mine. The Turkish guys there would constantly stare at her boobs. When I came back without her, one guy asked me about nude pics of her and yelled at me when I told him she's not for sale. She no longer goes to Turkish stores, because in her experience, she'll have to take a shower afterwards in 4 out of 5 cases.

- Went to a third Döner Kebap store with my wife. Although I was standing right next to her, the Turkish guy made her a pretty bland and disgusting invitation, while staring at me with codecendency and obvious disgust. We immediately left.

- A Turkish guy followed my wife for 20 minutes on the street until she finally managed to escape into a store.

- When I went to a bar with a female friend, the Turkish waiter had this randy stare on her and would throw ice cubes in her neckline -- without the slightest indication from her side she was interested in a flirt (she was not).

- several dozen stories of usually very open minded, liberal women who usually judge people on an individual basis, that they no longer go to Turkish shops, because they will always experience the very same thing

- Arab guys I met here and there who advanced anti-Semitic hatred and conspiracy theories that make the average German Nazi from the 40s look tame and civilized in comparison


So out of 10 male Turkish/Muslim immigrants I met here, 3 or 4 are criminal, 9 are disgusting human trash. Sorry, but that is simply my experience. Only 10 years ago, I would still parrot all this idealistic PC bull**** about "tolerance" and "xenophobia". Unfortunately, you have to either live on a different planet, in your own upper-class bubble or simply be a total moron to still find that idealistic **** convincing after some experience.

Now I *am* angry. **** tolerance. I no longer feel like being screwed in the butt, and I do have a wife and baby daughter now I don't want to see raped by these hairy half-apes. I tolerated all this bull**** long enough. Now, enough is enough. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

Don't believe me? You don't have to. Make a test: Go to 10 random Turkish stores and see for yourself. You don't depend on my word. But please just have the decency admitting it when your experience confirms mine.


Immigrants from Muslim countries do have a culture of chauvinism, misogyni, even a rape culture. They're scum and they're abusing their status as guests in this country. No other immigrant group poses these problems here -- be that black Christian Africans, Latin Americans, East Asians or Russians. All of them seem to know how to behave most of the time. Just Turkish and Arabs don't. Why do you think that is?

 

[süt]

So this Serbian criminal could be released if they do not come out yet?

As you can see in the footage, ,there are more than 20 people at the moment of the attack, They all watch, and let the serbs kill and walk away.

Due to respect to the brave woman, i wont go into hatred centered ''debate'' with some.

 

[Rainman05]

As you can see in the footage, ,there are more than 20 people at the moment of the attack, They all watch, and let the serbs kill and walk away.

Due to respect to the brave woman, i wont go into hatred centered ''debate'' with some.

Nobody is protecting those serbs who did that.
The authorities aren't turning a blind eye to it. They'll be found and prosecuted and treated like all other criminals.

But with muslims when they do crimes ,sometimes, in fact quite a lot of times, the authorities will turn a blind eye and allow them to continue doing heinous crimes because of fear of "causing offense".
But anyway, the majority of turks don't primarily identify as muslims in the way muslims from northern africa and arabia do.

 

[Serenity]

I'll just take a moment to say what a brave girl she was. Much braver than many others would be if they were faced with a similar situation. RIP.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Germans demand honour for Turkish woman beaten to death | euronews, world news


A woman sacrifices herself at early 20s without being mother and feeling having kids for two underage girls, and defends them against three men in a country that has treated her and her people as alien for decades.

Tragic and sad...

I think you mean rolled out the welcome mat. Want to tell me about how Turkey treats non Turks?

I'm an immigrant who behaves and treats Germany with respect, in return Germany has welcomed me in and treated me with respect as well. Perhaps you guys should clean up your act.

 

[DDD]

Lets just establish teh facts before the liars (why do the left lie so much?) obfuscate the issue

This woman was murdered by Immigrants who were MUSLIM.

Serbs are not Muslim.

 

[DDD]

Immigrants from Muslim countries do have a culture of chauvinism, misogyni, even a rape culture. They're scum and they're abusing their status as guests in this country. No other immigrant group poses these problems here -- be that black Christian Africans, Latin Americans, East Asians or Russians. All of them seem to know how to behave most of the time. Just Turkish and Arabs don't. Why do you think that is?

The Imam's.

They spread hatred and use religion to advance politically. A Muslims religious person has to pray at least a Friday at the mosque. There they get the hatred and weakness dosage without which Muslims cannot seem to find a life.

 

[DDD]

But anyway, the majority of turks don't primarily identify as muslims in the way muslims from northern africa and arabia do.

We spoke of overgeneralization in another thread. I just wished to point out that this post is a fine example of specific Muslim bashing.

No Muslim wishes to be put into an onvergeneralized category of criminals without merit.

 

[DDD]

I'll just take a moment to say what a brave girl she was. Much braver than many others would be if they were faced with a similar situation. RIP.

I second this.

A brave and a fine beautiful woman wasted...

I cannot even watch the video to see how she got killed from the Serbs!

 

[DDD]

You can't even let this go without making a bigoted smear comment against Germans here (obviously missing that the perpetrators weren't even German).

The title does not makes it appear as if this is something against the Deutsche.

...and defends them against three men in a country that has treated her and her people as alien for decades.

Can you elaborate on what "treating one like an alien for decades" means?

 

[German guy]

The title does not makes it appear as if this is something against the Deutsche.



Can you elaborate on what "treating one like an alien for decades" means?

Süt has made the claim before that Germans are anti-Turkish racists who somehow treat the Turkish in Germany badly and don't give them prospects. So he once again had to include a jab at German society for allegedly "treating her and her family like aliens for decades". Although that had nothing to do whatsoever with the topic here. But the fact alone that this happened in Germany was an opportunity to attack Germans he didn't want to miss.

By doing so, he shows the typical signs of a member of a Muslim culture: Always blaming others, never taking any responsibility whatsoever for the deeds of his own kind, and he even mixed this ugly cocktail of Muslim cultural chauvinism with Turkish nationalism.

For people like Süt, things like tolerance and acceptance don't matter. He simply knows that Germany has this weird culture of self-hatred, and he just has to use these signal words of "racism" or "xenophobia" and a whole lot of Germans will immediately pull down their pants ready for ass-rape, because they think they deserve it. Turkish people ridicule Germans for that. That's why he uses them, he feels he can abuse this German dicklessness and self-hatred to guilt-shame Germans into accepting Turkish chauvinism. In case of many Germans, that probably even works. Not so in my case.

 

[alexa]

What happened to the German Guy I have long loved and respected? I appreciate that the slur on Germans was bigoted but look what you came back with. I will tell you I do not believe all your 'personal experiences' and though it is not Turks I have lived in areas with a large Muslim population working in several shops and I have never experienced anything of the sort you speak of. I have experienced racism towards them from customers but never anything of the sort you speak of.

- Had a Turkish Muslim fellow pupil in elementary school. She was nice, and we found it interesting that she'd eat no pork and fast once per year. Years later, I met her again on Facebook where she was posting anti-Western talking points, pro-IS propaganda and about the pride of voluntarily wearing a scarf.”

If you only knew her enough to talk about fasting and pork, it suggests she was more an acquaintance who you spoke to only about things which set her apart. Pride in wearing a headscarf her right. Presenting Pro Isis propaganda not. I would think you could report that to the appropriate authorities.

“- Met a good friend of mine, a woman of Turkish parents. She's living a Western style of life and is perfectly German. However, her parents expulsed her when she decided to go partying and having German boyfriends before marriage. It became better again with her mother, when her father lost his residence permit and was deported after having been found guilty of petraying social welfare and petty theft. Her brother threatened to kill her with a knife "for damaging family honor". Her uncle is a cocaine and crack dealer who was recently arrested when he resisted a police raid (he clubbed on the police with a baseball bat).”

This woman enjoys partying and 'German boyfriends before marriage' which caused problems with her family. Not that long ago in the country I live in choosing to marry someone of a different branch of Christianity would have caused problems with the family. You also let us know that Dad and other family members are criminals and that her brother threatened to kill her with a knife. What happened when you went to the police about this threat. How did the German Police react?

“- Seven years ago, I had a girlfriend with a 2 year old daughter. The father of her child was a Turkish guy. After our break-up, he wanted back to her, stalked her (the full program), finally raped her, until the police had to give her a new identity and had to take her out of the city for her own safety.”

Sounds like the father of her child had no problems while she was in a relationship with you. You being not a Muslim so no problems on that level. He became a stalker and finally raped her. Why did you or she not report this to the police while she was being stalked and why rather than arresting this man for stalking and rape do they instead make her take on a new identity and give up her life. Sounds very strange.

- Met two Turkish guys at college. They seemed okay.”

This supposed to be you saying it is not impossible that the odd Turk might be 'okay' – not nice or anything but there could possibly be the odd Turk that is not threatening.

- Two gay friends of mine were almost beaten up by a bunch of Turkish adolescents, after they witnessed them holding hands in public. They now always change the side of the street when they see Turkish people coming the way.

Almost beaten up is subjective. Again the police and/or Gay organisations are where to go to report. Did they/ you do this?

“- Went to two different Turkish Döner Kebap stores with a pretty female buddy of mine. The Turkish guys there would constantly stare at her boobs. When I came back without her, one guy asked me about nude pics of her and yelled at me when I told him she's not for sale. She no longer goes to Turkish stores, because in her experience, she'll have to take a shower afterwards in 4 out of 5 cases.”

This sounds like an insane interaction. Sometimes men do look at women's boobs granted. You go back alone and they ask you for nude pictures of her? What? What made them think she was a prostitute as you then say she is not for sale?

German Guy “- Went to a third Döner Kebap store with my wife. Although I was standing right next to her, the Turkish guy made her a pretty bland and disgusting invitation, while staring at me with codecendency and obvious disgust. We immediately left.”

I actually had a similar experience in Pakistan 35 years ago except they were terrified of the man I was with and ran away the moment he looked at them.

TBC

 

[alexa]

Part 2

- A Turkish guy followed my wife for 20 minutes on the street until she finally managed to escape into a store.”

What reason do you have not to believe that if your wife for some reason felt the need to walk along a road for 20 minutes that other people might also?

“- When I went to a bar with a female friend, the Turkish waiter had this randy stare on her and would throw ice cubes in her neckline -- without the slightest indication from her side she was interested in a flirt (she was not).”

It is not uncommon of men from all races/ethnicities to make 'randy' stares at women regardless of whether they wish to flirt. Has become a bit better due to work on sexism but even so. Certainly in the UK if it was obvious enough the woman could complain about Harassment.

“- several dozen stories of usually very open minded, liberal women who usually judge people on an individual basis, that they no longer go to Turkish shops, because they will always experience the very same thing”

Yup, it is not just you.

“- Arab guys I met here and there who advanced anti-Semitic hatred and conspiracy theories that make the average German Nazi from the 40s look tame and civilized in comparison”

:shock: The average Germany Nazi of the 40's was involved in a systematic genocide of not only Jews but Roma, Jehova's witnesses, Gays, mentally ill as well as to some extent of Poles and Russians.

“So out of 10 male Turkish/Muslim immigrants I met here, 3 or 4 are criminal, 9 are disgusting human trash. Sorry, but that is simply my experience. Only 10 years ago, I would still parrot all this idealistic PC bull**** about "tolerance" and "xenophobia". Unfortunately, you have to either live on a different planet, in your own upper-class bubble or simply be a total moron to still find that idealistic **** convincing after some experience.”

Far far more recently than ten years ago you were not racist, indeed the very opposite, I look into this site from time to time. I have never seen a person change from one extreme – which was the extreme of a person unusually knowledgeable about how racism works to today. Even before when people slurred Germany you did not do this and yet you expect me to believe these issues have been experienced by you all over the years and they did not affect you till now when suddenly your mind is overwhelmed by them.

“Now I *am* angry. **** tolerance. I no longer feel like being screwed in the butt, and I do have a wife and baby daughter now I don't want to see raped by these hairy half-apes. I tolerated all this bull**** long enough. Now, enough is enough. GET OFF MY LAWN!!! “

Again where has German Guy gone? You never spoke in this common way but now here you are calling all Turks 'Hairy half apes” - the very epitome of classical European Racism as well as the other stuff. I do not believe for one second that the German Guy who is speaking today would tolerate anything.

“Immigrants from Muslim countries do have a culture of chauvinism, misogyni, even a rape culture. They're scum and they're abusing their status as guests in this country. No other immigrant group poses these problems here -- be that black Christian Africans, Latin Americans, East Asians or Russians. All of them seem to know how to behave most of the time. Just Turkish and Arabs don't. Why do you think that is? “

Some do, some don't. Some are at some times, not at others. When I was in Afghanistan in the 70's I never experienced any inappropriate looks or touches. You believe the West is free of these traits? The Misogyny including that among the dominant culture in the UK was the reason one Pakistani British man suggested it took so long for Muslim rapists to be addressed in the UK.

Why Pakistanis should be angry as everyone else with what happened in Rotherham | LabourList

“In the UK every year, approximately 85,000 women are raped and 400,000 are sexually assaulted. As few as one in 100 of these crimes may result in a conviction for the rapist.

16 Days |


I accept that the Europe section on this forum has become strongly islamophobic in accord with Europe moving again towards the far right. I notice it has even recently got as far as calls for their deportation. I just never expected you to join in. Your change kind of makes me lose hope. eace

 

[süt]

Can you elaborate on what "treating one like an alien for decades" means?

No.... This thread is not the right place for it.

No civilized debate can be made in this topic. The mod even is close to losing it, I cannot imagine if i went into bold rhetoric, what would happen.

 

[German guy]

What happened to the German Guy I have long loved and respected? I appreciate that the slur on Germans was bigoted but look what you came back with. I will tell you I do not believe all your 'personal experiences' and though it is not Turks I have lived in areas with a large Muslim population working in several shops and I have never experienced anything of the sort you speak of. I have experienced racism towards them from customers but never anything of the sort you speak of.

Well, I have had some pretty bad days, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, at least the emotions behind what I say. I needed to vent frustration and my brain may get back to work in ... three, two, one. Anyway. I can swear that I made nothing on that list up. No matter if I am in a bad mood and rant, or if I am in a good mood and shrug it off, the facts on that list remain the same.

I didn't even mention another two points on that list: My 2 year old baby niece was beaten up and deeply traumatized by three(!) Turkish boys aged 5, who "wanted her jacket". I have no idea how innocent 5 year olds can be tribalized into that kind of **** already, but our nice Turkish fellows managed to do that.

On the plus side, I met a very nice Turkish guy who has joined Jehova's Witnesses (and is threatened by his family for apostasy). He's a really nice guy and we have a lot of fun chatting every time he comes around with his JH papers.

I've finally reached a point where I don't feel like making up excuses and trying to tolerate any kind of **** anymore. That's not my business. It's hard enough to live my own life. I no longer have any energy for processing the bull**** other people hurl at me.


You never made similar experiences? Well, good for you ... I can only assume that means that one should be careful generalizing Muslim or Turkish immigrants. However, those who live in my environment here in Berlin, I am fed up with. It doesn't mean I don't still try to judge every person I meet on an individual basis. Of course not. But all this BS is definitely no coincidence anymore. And it's no prejudice. On the contrary. It's my well balanced judice after 15 years or so of the maximum of tolerance and open-mindedness I could muster.

If you only knew her enough to talk about fasting and pork, it suggests she was more an acquaintance who you spoke to only about things which set her apart. Pride in wearing a headscarf her right. Presenting Pro Isis propaganda not. I would think you could report that to the appropriate authorities.

We were kids. We were 9 years old. That's all I remember. I was curious about her back then, but she wasn't a close buddy or anything. At that age, we didn't like those from the other aisle anyway ("yuck! Girls!!!").

This woman enjoys partying and 'German boyfriends before marriage' which caused problems with her family. Not that long ago in the country I live in choosing to marry someone of a different branch of Christianity would have caused problems with the family. You also let us know that Dad and other family members are criminals and that her brother threatened to kill her with a knife. What happened when you went to the police about this threat. How did the German Police react?

It's none of my business and it was a while back already when she told me about it. I don't think she called the police. What would they have done anyway? Without any proof for a vital threat, they would have ignored her anyway.

And yes, German culture was similar only 150 years ago. But we're no longer living in 1850. I want immigrants who come here to respect that. They're coming to live here, after all. Don't like it here? Then leave.

Sounds like the father of her child had no problems while she was in a relationship with you. You being not a Muslim so no problems on that level. He became a stalker and finally raped her. Why did you or she not report this to the police while she was being stalked and why rather than arresting this man for stalking and rape do they instead make her take on a new identity and give up her life. Sounds very strange.

The problem never was that he was a Muslim. I don't even think he paid any attention to the religion of Islam. The problem was that he was from a misogynist culture that placed some very weird emphasis on their ideas of "family" and "honor" and "role of women", and that mix was obviously not compatible with German law. And neither with general decency.

She did report it. Problem was, that was before the new anti-stalking law, which means the police could basically do nothing at all unless you could prove you had been raped already.

...

 

[German guy]

This supposed to be you saying it is not impossible that the odd Turk might be 'okay' – not nice or anything but there could possibly be the odd Turk that is not threatening.

Of course. Many of them are okay. Probably many of them are even wonderful human beings and wonderful friends. I know that many female Turks can be.

But the problem I am talking about, is that a large number (at least of the males) is not. That's a huge minority, if not the majority of Turks I dealt with so far here.

If I meet a new person who happens to be Turkish, do you think I will reject or blame him just because of the experiences with other Turks I wrote about here? Of course not. I will judge him, like anybody else, on an individual basis. My problem are statistics. When 8 out of 10 simply turn out to be assholes after an individual evaluation, that's no longer a coincidence.

Almost beaten up is subjective. Again the police and/or Gay organisations are where to go to report. Did they/ you do this?

I have no idea what else they did. But they confirmed it's everyday experience for gays in Berlin. Threats by natives are rare. Threats by immigrants are the common rule.

This sounds like an insane interaction. Sometimes men do look at women's boobs granted. You go back alone and they ask you for nude pictures of her? What? What made them think she was a prostitute as you then say she is not for sale?

That was exactly the "WHAAAT?!" moment I had too. But it did happen.

I actually had a similar experience in Pakistan 50 years ago except they were terrified of the man I was with and ran away the moment he looked at them.

I feel hatred when some disgusting piece of **** wants to drag me down on his level of testosterone-driven macho stereotypes by forcing me to meet his expectations by doing something ape-like in order to defend "my piece of female flesh".

That's not how I feel, and it is not what I consider acceptable in a civilized 21st century society.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No.... This thread is not the right place for it.

No civilized debate can be made in this topic. The mod even is close to losing it, I cannot imagine if i went into bold rhetoric, what would happen.

I'll elaborate for you then: you despise the fact that so many Turks flee your country for Germany, so out of jealousy you try to tear them down because you don't understand what they have that you don't.

If Turks were actually treated bad in Germany and not with respect, so many of your countrymen wouldn't be leaving their homes and everything they know in Turkey to head to Germany.

If we want to look at gross human rights abuses we mustn't look any further than your backyard.

 

[Van Basten]

Takes a certain talent to flip a story about a brave young woman being beaten to death by two private citizens into an attack on Germany in its' entirety. And all in one sentence. Devious at the least.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Last month I went to a Turkish döner shop with my wife and her brother and her sister-in-law. We ordered and we ate. Nothing happened.

Growing up near Emory University my grade school classes often resembled the U.N. I went to school with and had Turk and Arab friends. Nothing happened.

My wife has a good friend who is Iraqi. The woman and her husband and my wife and I see each other socially. Over the years, socializing with them and sometimes with their friends or family, nothing has happened.

A week or two ago my wife and I were grocery shopping for a few things. As we approached the counter a Muslim couple (she was wearing a scarf and the guy had a heavy Middle Eastern accent) arrived at the counter just ahead of us. The guy turned around and said, "Please move ahead. You have very little to purchase." I thanked him and we did jump in front of them. As we left I thanked him again, and his wife said, "Happy Thanksgiving". Nothing else happened.