German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end? [W:539]

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

I think that you're overestimating German power. You have a rich country but your military is a complete mess . Also your economy is too export dependent...which makes it vulnerable to the whims of other counties (like China and Russia) in any coming downturn.

Germany is the 2nd biggest military budget in western world in absolute numbers.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

As I said, buy your energy from sources that suit you. You can trust Putin. I don't, but you can. They aren't invading anyone - much. They grabbed Crimea and occupy parts of Ukraine, but that doesn't count.

If things don't work out the way your rosy scenario envisions, don't call us.

Putin is more trustworthy than Trump. Trump is openly hostile towards Germany, Putin is not. Add the fact that Crimea always was part of Russia and Ukraine is an artificial country.

That said, Germany never called USA, so far it was USA that called us for help in 2001.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

This happened in Jan 2009.

And thats exactly why we have Nordstream I and II. We now deal directly with Russia, without having to burden us with ****hole countries like Ukraine or Poland. They steal gas, want transit money ect. The entire sense of Nordstream I and II is to bypass them. Lowers energy cost for Germany and gives us higher security. Back then Ukraine stole gas from the pipeline. Once both pipelines are completed, Russia can shut them down and we dont have to bother about them. Win win for Germany and Russia.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Trump trusts Putin to be Putin. Putin's desire to dominate Europe is transparent.

With an economy weaker than that of the city of munich Putin dominates nothing.

 

[Sweden]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

True, but the fact remains, that we are a free nation that can decide about its choices.

Tell me, do you believe your government is overstepping its rights by trying to stop a german energy project? They say "Germany becmes to dependend on russian gas".

We say thats our choice. And we dont see Russia as a threat. To be honest right now USA ranks far below in trustworthiness in Germany than Russia.

https://www.thelocal.de/20170203/german-trust-in-usa-plummets-to-record-low-survey

On a sidenote, you say you are a conservative. I assume you are a patriot as well and agree that this outside meddling makes it absolute necessary that the pipeline is completed. Germany cant allow a foreign power to blackmail us.

Absolute idiotic behavior by a (former?) ally.

Germany is indeed a free nation and it pleases me. Do you recall how that came about?

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Oh, but when hours count, the Germans can have a nuke in days. They'll have to use that nuke on their own soil. I bet they'll be up for doing that. :roll:

We send spacecrafts on comets and on saturns moon Titan but somehow according to you cant send a nuke over poland or russian soil...makes total sense. Not.

 

[humbolt]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Putin is more trustworthy than Trump. Trump is openly hostile towards Germany, Putin is not. Add the fact that Crimea always was part of Russia and Ukraine is an artificial country.

That said, Germany never called USA, so far it was USA that called us for help in 2001.

Looks like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the definition of hostile. You can attempt to minimize Russia's appetite if it suits your fantasy, but Putin and Russia's predatory nature is easy to see for those with eyes.

 

[swing_voter]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

I think the EU can handle Russia on its own. It's their part of the world.

We're safe over here, surrounded by oceans and friendly nations.

Think of the money we would save.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Germany is indeed a free nation and it pleases me. Do you recall how that came about?

Sure, in 1989 east Germans toppled the communist regime in a revolution. Reunion happened. Later on chancellor Schröder carved out first german independend foreign politics now in 2020 Germany follows its own global interests

 

[Sweden]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Germany is the 2nd biggest military budget in western world in absolute numbers.

It does not seem to be buying much. In a table of relative military strength Germany comes in at 13th out of 138. (The UK is 8th out of 138).

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Looks like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the definition of hostile. You can attempt to minimize Russia's appetite if it suits your fantasy, but Putin and Russia's predatory nature is easy to see for those with eyes.

Putins goals are quite easy to see. Russias dominance in eastern europe, german dominance in western and central europe and a german russian alliance that creates a power block from portugal to the sea of japan. He openly writes it. German technology and economic power plus russian rescources create a powerblock unrivalled in the world. Putin is hellbend to break the german american alliance for exactly that reason. Now that he has an american president who follows his orders, he gets close to that goal.

Putin offers us return of areas lost in WW II, says poland is responsible for the war and when he took crimea and west installed sanctions he blamed west, except Germany. He said he knows we do that against our will.

Putin is quite clear about his goals.

 

[humbolt]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

We send spacecrafts on comets and on saturns moon Titan but somehow according to you cant send a nuke over poland or russian soil...makes total sense. Not.

Germany has no nuclear weapons.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

It does not seem to be buying much. In a table of relative military strength Germany comes in at 13th out of 138. (The UK is 8th out of 138).

Do you know what it would mean if we would spend 2% of GDP on defense? We would have a bigger military than China or Russia. Bigger than all european militaries in EU combined.

Why would we need that? What for?

 

[humbolt]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Putins goals are quite easy to see. Russias dominance in eastern europe, german dominance in western and central europe and a german russian alliance that creates a power block from portugal to the sea of japan. He openly writes it. German technology and economic power plus russian rescources create a powerblock unrivalled in the world. Putin is hellbend to break the german american alliance for exactly that reason. Now that he has an american president who follows his orders, he gets close to that goal.

Putin offers us return of areas lost in WW II, says poland is responsible for the war and when he took crimea and west installed sanctions he blamed west, except Germany. He said he knows we do that against our will.

Putin is quite clear about his goals.

You've clearly been drinking something. Vodka, most likely. Good luck with your faith in Putin.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Germany has no nuclear weapons.

Germany chose nuclear latency. We have the entire spectrum to build any type of nuke in matter of days. Or as the UN calls it, to be one screwdriver away from the nuke. Its also called the japan option. To have the nuke wizhout having one and is a go around of the treaty.

Why you think we have 2nd largest stockpile of Plutonium and Germany declined to give parts of it away? Its part of our defense.


Nuclear latency - Wikipedia.

Its quite comfortable solution. Offers you all the benefits to be a nuclear nation without the fuss that countries like Israel have to go through. It goes around the entire IAEO rules and is outside any control.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You've clearly been drinking something. Vodka, most likely. Good luck with your faith in Putin.

I dont drink. You just have to accept that in 2020 Germany follows its own interests and those are not necessarily identical to american interests.

 

[humbolt]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Germany chose nuclear latency. We have the entire spectrum to build any type of nuke in matter of days. Or as the UN calls it, to be one screwdriver away from the nuke. Its also called the japan option. To have the nuke wizhout having one and is a go around of the treaty.

Why you think we have 2nd largest stockpile of Plutonium and Germany declined to give parts of it away? Its part of our defense.


Nuclear latency - Wikipedia.

Its quite comfortable solution. Offers you all the benefits to be a nuclear nation without the fuss that countries like Israel have to go through. It goes around the entire IAEO rules and is outside any control.

Sure. As I said, trust Putin, and good luck with your Russo-German alliance. You guys get along famously, as history proves.

 

[humbolt]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

I dont drink. You just have to accept that in 2020 Germany follows its own interests and those are not necessarily identical to american interests.

You need to accept the the US follows it's own interests, and they don't necessarily align with Germany's. Germany offers NATO very little. We will do fine without you.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You need to accept the the US follows it's own interests, and they don't necessarily align with Germany's. Germany offers NATO very little. We will do fine without you.

Without Germany, NATO is meaningless. It is the geographical center of Nato. The UK can leave without an issue, or France. But if Germany left it might as well disband

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Sure. As I said, trust Putin, and good luck with your Russo-German alliance. You guys get along famously, as history proves.

Well Russia has never invaded Germany

 

[Mycroft]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

And thats exactly why we have Nordstream I and II. We now deal directly with Russia, without having to burden us with ****hole countries like Ukraine or Poland. They steal gas, want transit money ect. The entire sense of Nordstream I and II is to bypass them. Lowers energy cost for Germany and gives us higher security. Back then Ukraine stole gas from the pipeline. Once both pipelines are completed, Russia can shut them down and we dont have to bother about them. Win win for Germany and Russia.

And you trust Putin...right?

Suggestion: Don't ever piss him off.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Sure. As I said, trust Putin, and good luck with your Russo-German alliance. You guys get along famously, as history proves.

You are right. Germany and Russia share much positive history. We beat Napoleon together. A German women became most powerful russian leader.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You need to accept the the US follows it's own interests, and they don't necessarily align with Germany's. Germany offers NATO very little. We will do fine without you.

Without Germany you can disband NATO.

We live in a new era. A multipolar world. Germany and USA will still be Friends, im sure about that.

 

[Rostocker]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

And you trust Putin...right?

Suggestion: Don't ever piss him off.

I think Putin is more trustworthy than Trump.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

I think Putin is more trustworthy than Trump.

shrug...

That is your mistake to make.