George W (1 Viewer)

[dseag2]

We live in Dallas and we visited the George W Bush Museum for the first time today. It was mostly about 9/11, but it was touching to look back at that time and see how he tried to unite us. I still think he wasn't qualified for the job and let people like Cheney and Rove run the show and destroy his presidency. BUT in all the clips I saw a guy who seemed to truly care about others, could laugh at himself and had the country's best interest at heart.

I couldn't stand George W when he was President, and I remember how much he damaged our reputation abroad and helped lead us into the Great Recession, but looking back it was almost forgivable compared to current times. Everything is relative, I guess.

It was a very timely reminder of how far the Republican party has fallen. We left wondering what 9/11 would have been like under Trump and what a Trump Library would look like.

 

[eman623]

I said at the time when Bush left office, his image would someday be rehabilitated, much to the mocking derision of the leftists on the board I frequented at that time.

Americans are big hearted and have short memories. I used to live a mile or so from Nixon's birthplace and presidential library in Yorba Linda. When he passed away, the line of people lining up to pay their respects reached my house, and another mile beyond that.

I'll go out on a limb again. Someday, Trump will be fondly remembered alongside GWB, Ford and Nixon. Not by everyone. But the past will recede and the passions will die down.

At least that's the hope. If not, then don't expect the country to remain a country much longer.

 

[X Factor]

We live in Dallas and we visited the George W Bush Museum for the first time today. It was mostly about 9/11, but it was touching to look back at that time and see how he tried to unite us. I still think he wasn't qualified for the job and let people like Cheney and Rove run the show and destroy his presidency. BUT in all the clips I saw a guy who seemed to truly care about others, could laugh at himself and had the country's best interest at heart.

I couldn't stand George W when he was President, and I remember how much he damaged our reputation abroad and helped lead us into the Great Recession, but looking back it was almost forgivable compared to current times. Everything is relative, I guess.

It was a very timely reminder of how far the Republican party has fallen. We left wondering what 9/11 would have been like under Trump and what a Trump Library would look like.

Bush’s biggest problem was trying to ingratiate himself to people like you who were going to hate him no matter what.

 

[dseag2]

I said at the time when Bush left office, his image would someday be rehabilitated, much to the mocking derision of the leftists on the board I frequented at that time.

Americans are big hearted and have short memories. I used to live a mile or so from Nixon's birthplace and presidential library in Yorba Linda. When he passed away, the line of people lining up to pay their respects reached my house, and another mile beyond that.

I'll go out on a limb again. Someday, Trump will be fondly remembered alongside GWB, Ford and Nixon. Not by everyone. But the past will recede and the passions will die down.

At least that's the hope. If not, then don't expect the country to remain a country much longer.

I'm a Democrat and I will concede that George W and Ford will be fondly remembered. However, Nixon was a crook. I actually voted for him back in the day and I think he was a stain on the presidency. He is still remembered that way. I also don't see many people remembering Trump fondly because there will be no clips to draw from where he praises our country. They will all be about how horrible America is.

 

[dseag2]

Bush’s biggest problem was trying to ingratiate himself to people like you who were going to hate him no matter what.

Thanks for your insightful post.

 

[phoenix2020]

W Part 2 is directly responsible for the murder of thousands of Iraqi civilians on a lie because he wanted to ingratiate himself to papa.

I hope he spends all eternity on the Bad Place.

He is worse than Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush 1, Reagan and all other Presidents who governed in my lifetime.

 

[eman623]

I'm a Democrat and I will concede that George W and Ford will be fondly remembered. However, Nixon was a crook. I actually voted for him back in the day and I think he was a stain on the presidency. He is still remembered that way. I also don't see many people remembering Trump fondly because there will be no clips to draw from where he praises our country. They will all be about how horrible America is.

There's a lot of clips of Trump praising our country.

 

[X Factor]

Thanks for your insightful post.

Anytime.

 

[reflechissez]

I said at the time when Bush left office, his image would someday be rehabilitated, much to the mocking derision of the leftists on the board I frequented at that time.

Americans are big hearted and have short memories. I used to live a mile or so from Nixon's birthplace and presidential library in Yorba Linda. When he passed away, the line of people lining up to pay their respects reached my house, and another mile beyond that.

I'll go out on a limb again. Someday, Trump will be fondly remembered alongside GWB, Ford and Nixon. Not by everyone. But the past will recede and the passions will die down.

At least that's the hope. If not, then don't expect the country to remain a country much longer.

Meh. Charles Manson had fans; I'm sure trump will always have some as well.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Bush’s biggest problem was trying to ingratiate himself to people like you who were going to hate him no matter what.

Nah. Bush's biggest problem was incompetence. He didn't give a flying **** about whether or not Democrats agreed with him.

As he proved repeatedly --

1) Failure to heed intel about bin Laden about to attack the U.S.
2) Iraq war disaster
3) Afghanistan war disaster
4) Hurricane Katrina disaster
5) 2008 financial disaster

The only reason anybody has "fond" memories of Dubya is that Trump has been an even bigger nightmare.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

We live in Dallas and we visited the George W Bush Museum for the first time today. It was mostly about 9/11, but it was touching to look back at that time and see how he tried to unite us. I still think he wasn't qualified for the job and let people like Cheney and Rove run the show and destroy his presidency. BUT in all the clips I saw a guy who seemed to truly care about others, could laugh at himself and had the country's best interest at heart.

I couldn't stand George W when he was President, and I remember how much he damaged our reputation abroad and helped lead us into the Great Recession, but looking back it was almost forgivable compared to current times. Everything is relative, I guess.

It was a very timely reminder of how far the Republican party has fallen. We left wondering what 9/11 would have been like under Trump and what a Trump Library would look like.

Is this the same museum that has a virtual reality hologram of Dubya trying to justify his Iraq War bullshit? I think I remember seeing Rachel Maddow criticize this years ago.

 

[dseag2]

Is this the same museum that has a virtual reality hologram of Dubya trying to justify his Iraq War bullshit? I think I remember seeing Rachel Maddow criticize this years ago.

We didn't see that. We mostly watched the clips from 9/11, which would make anyone teary-eyed. We also toured a replica of the Oval Office from his time as President. Any of his accomplishments that were displayed were taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Craig234]

We live in Dallas and we visited the George W Bush Museum for the first time today. It was mostly about 9/11, but it was touching to look back at that time and see how he tried to unite us. I still think he wasn't qualified for the job and let people like Cheney and Rove run the show and destroy his presidency. BUT in all the clips I saw a guy who seemed to truly care about others, could laugh at himself and had the country's best interest at heart.

I couldn't stand George W when he was President, and I remember how much he damaged our reputation abroad and helped lead us into the Great Recession, but looking back it was almost forgivable compared to current times. Everything is relative, I guess.

It was a very timely reminder of how far the Republican party has fallen. We left wondering what 9/11 would have been like under Trump and what a Trump Library would look like.

I'd suggest you are getting it very wrong. In some small ways, what you say is right. Bush COULD sometimes have some 'decency', and did. But he was fundamentally corrupt and harmful and disastrous.

It wasn't an accident that his government was filled with those terrible interests. That hundreds of regulatory head positions were handed to the industries being regulated - their executives and lobbyists. That almost his entire foreign policy government was handed to the "Neocons" with their agenda for Israel (Worse than Hamas) and to go to war on Iraq and so on. That he put the former Goledman Sachs CEO in charge of the hundreds of billions in funds for the great recession - to be handed out by that one person, however he wanted, secretly, and used to help Goldman Sachs. A young aide reported seeing Bush in the hallway on the phone with his Treasury Secretary, pleading that the Secretary had to tell him what was going on, he was the president and had to talk to the American people.

It's a little like some story about Mao or Stalin doing something nice for people - which can be misleading when it hides their much worse actions. The good things Bush did shouldn't be ignored, but they shouldn't obscure the bigger wrongs. He was all about serving corrupt interests uncaring about the harm they did, along with some good here and there.

IMO, Bush was the worst president in our history, as I said then, until trump. It's amazing how that history can get re-written.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I said at the time when Bush left office, his image would someday be rehabilitated, much to the mocking derision of the leftists on the board I frequented at that time.

Well, yeah, because you found someone that made him look like a genius.

 

[Craig234]

I'm a Democrat and I will concede that George W and Ford will be fondly remembered.

Only by uninformed people. Will those uninformed people remember how Ford and Kissinger flew to Indonesia, and the day after they left, Indonesia attacked East Timoor killing 250,000 illegally using American weapons given for defense only, and for decades Ford denied any involvement - until decades later it was rvevealed, of course he game them a green light during that visit, saying wait until he left?

 

[BabaVoss]

Bush Jr was a lousy president - although he looks fantastic compared to trump, he really was pretty awful. Not very bright, but I do think he had a level of morals and ethics. He was the last GOP president we can say that about.

Wrong headed in many of his decisions, the war he chose to start in Iraq was poorly planned, poorly executed, had no strategy for exit, and was extremely expensive in American blood and treasure. On the plus side, his response to the African AIDs epidemic was an American wonder of humanitarianism. And few people credit W with the work he did to prepare us for a pandemic after reading John M. Barry's "The Great Influenza," which told the chilling tale of the 1918 flu pandemic.

We can credit W with the creation of the nation's most comprehensive pandemic plan -- a playbook that included diagrams for a global early warning system, funding to develop new, rapid vaccine technology, and a robust national stockpile of critical supplies, such as face masks and ventilators. Large swaths of the ambitious plan were either not fully realized or entirely shelved as other priorities and crises took hold. But it was the playbook we ultimately used to deal with COVID.

I’m no fan of W, but he was a far better man and much better president than trump - by light years.

 

[Craig234]

Bush Jr was a lousy president - although he looks fantastic compared to trump, he really was pretty awful.

Agreed.

Not very bright, but I do think he had a level of morals and ethics. He was the last GOP president we can say that about.

I think "a level of" is very generous, but arguably in some sense of the words correct.

Wrong headed in many of his decisions, the war he chose to start in Iraq was poorly planned, poorly executed, had no strategy for exit

Oh, they had a plan, but one so bad the CIA sabotaged the Rumsfeld defense department to prevent it in everyone's interests as I recall. Ever heard the name "Chalabi"?

and was extremely expensive in American blood and treasure.

Nevermind the harm to Iraq - the millions displaced, and reports I casually heard of a million killed, though I haven't checked their accuracy.

On the plus side, his response to the African AIDs epidemic was an American wonder of humanitarianism.

Was it? It was a very good policy, but HIS part was having a longtime friendship with oil executive Condoleeza Rice, who brought the issue to him and said it was important to her, and he said 'ok'.

And few people credit W with the work he did to prepare us for a pandemic after reading John M. Barry's "The Great Influenza," which told the chilling tale of the 1918 flu pandemic.

Fair enough. Not that we did great when one soon arrived.

We can credit W with the creation of the nation's most comprehensive pandemic plan -- a playbook that included diagrams for a global early warning system, funding to develop new, rapid vaccine technology, and a robust national stockpile of critical supplies, such as face masks and ventilators. Large swaths of the ambitious plan were either not fully realized or entirely shelved as other priorities and crises took hold. But it was the playbook we ultimately used to deal with COVID.

Fair enough. Of course, for Covid, I don't remember "a robust stockpile of critical supplies, such as face masks and ventilators". I remember terrible shortage of them, even for healthcare workers, and chaos with states trying to bid against each other for the few supplies for sale, even stealing each others' shipments, chaos, and trump's policies said to have killed hundreds of thousands of Americans for no reason.

I’m no fan of W, but he was a far better man and much better president than trump - by light years.

I would insist on the phrase "less bad" instead, while agreeing with your point.

 

[Phys251]

Nah. Bush's biggest problem was incompetence. He didn't give a flying **** about whether or not Democrats agreed with him.

As he proved repeatedly --

1) Failure to heed intel about bin Laden about to attack the U.S.
2) Iraq war disaster
3) Afghanistan war disaster
4) Hurricane Katrina disaster
5) 2008 financial disaster

The only reason anybody has "fond" memories of Dubya is that Trump has been an even bigger nightmare.

W Bush's reputation will be forever stained by his ties to Dick Cheney and the invasion of Iraq under completely dishonest pretenses.

 

[Grogu]

Only by uninformed people. Will those uninformed people remember how Ford and Kissinger flew to Indonesia, and the day after they left, Indonesia attacked East Timoor killing 250,000 illegally using American weapons given for defense only, and for decades Ford denied any involvement - until decades later it was rvevealed, of course he game them a green light during that visit, saying wait until he left?

It’s just my opinion, but when we’re talking about how we remember former Presidents, the good and the bad, I’m guessing the vast majority of people providing responses focus mostly on domestic issues and outcomes. In other words, what they actually relate to personally within the borders of our country.

Kissinger and Ford buried their involvement with Indonesia’s Suharto. No surprise given it took East Timor 24 years to finally gain independence. And it was Kissinger, not Ford, who told Suharto that it was important to conclude the invasion quickly and after they had returned to the U.S.

Policy making and dealing with anti-communist regimes after Vietnam was different back in the mid-70’s. It’s a little unfair to roundly state that thoughts about Ford’s overall performance by “uninformed people” hinges on an invasion that was going to take place no matter what Kissinger and Ford communicated to Suharto, with much of that information being classified and/or buried by the U.S. government. I’m not giving Ford a pass here, but hindsight is 20/20.

Plus, the U.S. support for Indonesia continued through the Carter, Reagan, and George H. W. Bush administrations until it ended in 1999 under President Clinton.

 

[Craig234]

It’s a little unfair to roundly state that thoughts about Ford’s overall performance by “uninformed people” hinges on an invasion that was going to take place no matter what Kissinger and Ford communicated to Suharto, with much of that information being classified and/or buried by the U.S. government. I’m not giving Ford a pass here, but hindsight is 20/20.

So, your standard is only a book comprehensively addressing everything in Ford's presidency is relevant? I'd say the anecdote about an illegal act to wrongly kill 250,000 innocent people and lying to the American people is a pretty good anecdote to support the case. Unless you don't give a crap about those 250,000and such crimes and lies. Did you have something good he did that balances that? I don't.

Plus, the U.S. support for Indonesia continued through the Carter, Reagan, and George H. W. Bush administrations until it ended in 1999 under President Clinton.

'Support for Indonesia' as a strategic ally is different than the specific crime by Ford killing those 250,000. Reagan and Bush had their own crimes.

 

[post]

I said at the time when Bush left office, his image would someday be rehabilitated, much to the mocking derision of the leftists on the board I frequented at that time.

Americans are big hearted and have short memories. I used to live a mile or so from Nixon's birthplace and presidential library in Yorba Linda. When he passed away, the line of people lining up to pay their respects reached my house, and another mile beyond that.

I'll go out on a limb again. Someday, Trump will be fondly remembered alongside GWB, Ford and Nixon. Not by everyone. But the past will recede and the passions will die down.

At least that's the hope. If not, then don't expect the country to remain a country much longer.

Not gonna happen. The basement is the basement for good reasons. When Reagan died the country closed for an entire week. He was racist Democrats' president.
His performance as president ranked right down there with Nixon's and Trump's. Bush, '41 and '43 have the most secretive backgrounds of all POTUS exposed to media
inquiry since the radio broadcast era.

https://archive.ph/oSoD4 ....Or,

• https://www.nytimes.com › 2000 › 10 › 21 › us › 2000-campaign-texas-governor-missing-chapter-bush-bio-modest-summer-alaska.html
  

  THE 2000 CAMPAIGN: THE TEXAS GOVERNOR; The Missing Chapter in the Bush ...​

  Oct 21, 2000In the summer of 1974, however, during the period Mr. Bush worked at the company, Alaska International Air was too busy flying supplies to the pipeline to take work outside Alaska, Mr. Bergt said.

The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global ...​

books.google.com › books
Jeffrey A. Engel · 2011
Found inside – Page 311
... Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know now is to do the best job one can here. There is no credit in this work, but I think it is an accumulative thing, and you've got to .

http://www.brandonrottinghaus.com/uploads/1/0/8/7/108798321/presidential_greatness_white_paper_2024.pdf

 

[Grogu]

So, your standard is only a book comprehensively addressing everything in Ford's presidency is relevant? I'd say the anecdote about an illegal act to wrongly kill 250,000 innocent people and lying to the American people is a pretty good anecdote to support the case. Unless you don't give a crap about those 250,000and such crimes and lies. Did you have something good he did that balances that? I don't.

Don’t even attempt to guess what my standards are by one post on this board. That’s a poor comeback and that’s not for you to discern anyway. I already told you that most Americans judge United States presidential performance by what happens domestically during their terms and not abroad in conflicts, whether it’s East Timor, Angola, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Lebanon, and Grenada.

You act like Ford bombed East Timor himself or sent U.S. troops in to assist the Indonesian invasion. I’m not downplaying the tragedy of the East Timor people and how that invasion went down, but it’s not like the U.S. had an appetite to get involved in an invasion that was going to happen anyway half way around the world right after Vietnam. That conflict went on for 24 years.

There are all kinds of foreign involvement by our government over time, with action or inaction, and we citizens probably don’t know all of it.

'Support for Indonesia' as a strategic ally is different than the specific crime by Ford killing those 250,000. Reagan and Bush had their own crimes.

Stop with the embellishment. Ford didn’t kill 250,000 people. Christ Almighty…

 

[Craig234]

Don’t even attempt to guess what my standards are by one post on this board.

It's very fair to judge your standard on that specific topic by your response on it dismissing such an important action.

I already told you that most Americans judge United States presidential performance by what happens domestically during their terms and not abroad in conflicts, whether it’s East Timor, Angola, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panama, Lebanon, and Grenada.

I don't really care what most Americans judge it on, I'm expressing my opinion. If I care more about their killing 250,000 innocent people than most Americans illegally and lying to the country that they did, so be it.

You act like Ford bombed East Timor himself or sent U.S. troops in to assist the Indonesian invasion.

Morally, it's about the same. Without his approval, no invasion. How bizarre of you to try to defend a president authorizing a criminal massacre by demanding it isn't bad unless he's the one firing the weapons.

I’m not downplaying the tragedy of the East Timor people and how that invasion went down, but it’s not like the U.S. had an appetite to get involved in an invasion that was going to happen anyway half way around the world right after Vietnam. That conflict went on for 24 years.

They used US weapons (that should sound familiar nowadays) that by law were given with a condition for defensive use only (that should not sounds familiar nowadays) and they needed him to secretly allow them to violate that condition to invade.

There are all kinds of foreign involvement by our government over time, with action or inaction, and we citizens probably don’t know all of it.

Well, then let's just say none of it matters and it's fine.

Stop with the embellishment. Ford didn’t kill 250,000 people. Christ Almighty…

I don't think Hitler personally murdered a single person in the Holocaust. Stop embellishing.

You are whitewashing Ford's action.

And that's supporting evil. It's undermining American values and law. It's encouraging the American people to support such wrongdoing by presidents instead of condemning such actions and demanding better, taking some responsibility.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

BUT in all the clips I saw a guy who seemed to truly care about others, could laugh at himself and had the country's best interest at heart.

How personally morally driven someone is not directly correlated to how good of a president they were.

George W the president was horrific and set the US down our current path. But as far as I can tell he DID care and wanted to do good. But his ideology was doomed to cause destruction from the start.

 

[Puigb]

Bush’s biggest problem was trying to ingratiate himself to people like you who were going to hate him no matter what.

Coming from a guy who probably despises Obama and Biden this is rich.