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Gen Mike Flynn weighs in

Juin said:
The west has in Ukraine a good proxy.:) Ole "blood and guts" leads me to suggest a "blood for metals" relationship; western metal for Ukrainian blood! Politics is horrible!
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You make it sound like it's some deep conspiracy by the West instead of Putin the Imbecile stepping into shit to get involved in a war Russia doesn't need while making unnecessary enemies with its neighbors.
Juin said:
I consider that a bad example. The fact is France and Britain were never serious about defending Poland.
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They entered World War II, which is way more than the West has done this time.
Juin said:
The Soviet Union at that point was a gun for hire. Disliked by both France/Britain and Nazi Germany; and in danger from both. Stalin was available to the highest bidder. The Nazis made a serious offer while France/UK made none.
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What are you rambling about? "Gun for hire?" The USSR was a belligerent country determined to conquer territory by military force, same as Nazi Germany.
Juin said:
Last I looked it is the bear that has a piece of Ukraine
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They used to have a much bigger piece, and Ukraine has brought the fight onto Russian territory, so the tide has clearly turned. Best of all, we in the West get this result basically for free.
 
Cosmo said:
You make it sound like it's some deep conspiracy by the West instead of Putin the Imbecile stepping into shit to get involved in a war Russia doesn't need while making unnecessary enemies with its neighbors.
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I said Ukraine is the west's proxy, is it not? And Putin did not do anything the US would not do in same circumstances. As a matter of fact the US did samething in 1962


Cosmo said:
They entered World War II, which is way more than the West has done this time.
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And the UK and France are to blame for that. Stalin had been calling for years for combined action to contain Nazism, and what did he get? France and UK tossed Czechoslovakia to the Nazis. Russians had to take note of that. If the French and English would not fight for liberal, democratic Czechoslovakia, how can they be expected to fight for the Soviet Union they hated? Stalin did receive a delegation from France/UK and from the Nazis. The France/UK delegation left Stalin with the impression if he was attacked by Hitler they in all likelihood would prefer an outcome where the Nazis get badly bruised destroying Russia, while they themselves go up to speed. Stalin wisely avoided the UK/France offers. And he was later proven correct when the Nazis attacked Poland. France put up appearances of fighting. It was so bogus that not one German division was diverted from Poland to contain France


Cosmo said:
What are you rambling about? "Gun for hire?" The USSR was a belligerent country determined to conquer territory by military force, same as Nazi Germany.
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The USSR was a gun for hire in the west that France/UK and Germany that both hated the Soviet Union wanted it on their side. Or in the case of Germany at least not actively against Germany


Cosmo said:
They used to have a much bigger piece, and Ukraine has brought the fight onto Russian territory, so the tide has clearly turned. Best of all, we in the West get this result basically for free.
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Its all PR. Just like Zelensky's Kursk offensive. Big wins in the media with little to show on the ground.
 
Juin said:
I said Ukraine is the west's proxy, is it not? And Putin did not do anything the US would not do in same circumstances. As a matter of fact the US did samething in 1962
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What do you mean by "proxy?" Per Google's AI definition of the word:

A proxy war is a conflict where powerful nations, called "major powers," avoid direct military confrontation with each other and instead engage in battles through surrogate forces (proxies). These proxies can be other countries, rebel groups, or irregular forces
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But I don't see how this is a case of the US wanting to engage Russia in battle without doing so directly. What makes you think the US wanted to fight Russia in the first place?
Juin said:
And the UK and France are to blame for that.
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So maybe the West learned its lesson that appeasement doesn't work. Perhaps that's why they reacted a bit faster against Russia, and that's partly why Russia is still stuck in a quagmire 11 years later rather than steamrolling across Europe.
Juin said:
Stalin had been calling for years for combined action to contain Nazism, and what did he get? France and UK tossed Czechoslovakia to the Nazis. Russians had to take note of that. If the French and English would not fight for liberal, democratic Czechoslovakia, how can they be expected to fight for the Soviet Union they hated? Stalin did receive a delegation from France/UK and from the Nazis. The France/UK delegation left Stalin with the impression if he was attacked by Hitler they in all likelihood would prefer an outcome where the Nazis get badly bruised destroying Russia, while they themselves go up to speed. Stalin wisely avoided the UK/France offers. And he was later proven correct when the Nazis attacked Poland. France put up appearances of fighting. It was so bogus that not one German division was diverted from Poland to contain France
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Juin said:
The USSR was a gun for hire in the west that France/UK and Germany that both hated the Soviet Union wanted it on their side. Or in the case of Germany at least not actively against Germany
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What does this have to do with anything? Looks like some bizarre attempt to insert Kremlin apologist metodichka into the discussion.
Juin said:
Its all PR. Just like Zelensky's Kursk offensive. Big wins in the media with little to show on the ground.
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Russia got as far as Kiev. Since then they've been pushed back significantly.
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To call that "all PR" exposes your agenda.
 
Mycroft said:
ATTENTION!​
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So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing​
@realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning sign. If Ukraine is willing to conduct strikes with strategic consequences without notifying the White House, we are no longer allies with coordination issues—we are co-belligerents flying blind).​
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Also given Senator “warmonger” Lindsey Graham’s and Senator “Da Nang Dick” Blumenthal’s recent visit, this attack could appear as though it was sanctioned. I pray the Russians have better intelligence than that. IMHO, these two don’t have the sense or common sense to pull something like this off (there will have to be denials though).​
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FYI, Those bombers that were hit HAVE to be out in full view due to nuclear treaty obligations. Zelenskyy took advantage of that. For instance, they appear to have hidden the drones in containers and were driven on trucks near the airbase. Smart use of deception (see photos below). ​
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However, imagine any one of our big bomber bases having the exact same thing done to them. Very costly U.S. Strategic Bombers can be taken out in the same way by anyone with access to inexpensive drones, delivery trucks, explosives, and a bit of technical knowledge (not good and new tactics will now have to be developed).​
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People, and especially world leaders, need to realize the global implications to such an operation as Ukraine just pulled off.​
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Russia will respond. Action, reaction, counteraction. Those are the shifting tides of warfare.​
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This wasn’t a bold action, it was brash. Ukraine’s short-term win could be the world’s long-term loss.​
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Despite what is a complete mess right now in Europe, there are still solutions to achieving peace. They are narrowing however and time, as it often does, becomes an enemy instead of a useful friend.​

The treaty obligations that Flynn referred to are SALT and START. As usual, Flynn cuts through the nonsense rhetoric and focuses on the real-world facts and consequences. And, the fact is, Zelensky made a big mistake. He has almost guaranteed that Trump will pull out ALL of the support we've been giving Ukraine, including our on-the-ground CIA support.

Zelensky would be wise to make the best peace deal he can get, and to do it quickly. Otherwise, he will likely find himself in a world of shit without US support.

Of course, NOBODY in the entire world has ever accused Zelensky of being wise.
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The US supplied the satellite for these attacks. We are a part of it either partially or more so. Graham and Blumenthal met days before the attack and states that: Zelensky does have the cards. These individuals do not have the authority to conduct foreign policy without the consent of the President.
Correct that the US has a nuclear arms agreement that bombers must be parked in plain sight so that either side can monitor via satellite the numbers and locations. The US is now a party to this breach of the agreement. I do not think Trump had any fore knowledge of this attack and the Senators and Pompeo did.

This is unacceptable.
 
justoneman said:
The US supplied the satellite for these attacks. We are a part of it either partially or more so. Graham and Blumenthal met days before the attack and states that: Zelensky does have the cards. These individuals do not have the authority to conduct foreign policy without the consent of the President.
Correct that the US has a nuclear arms agreement that bombers must be parked in plain sight so that either side can monitor via satellite the numbers and locations. The US is now a party to this breach of the agreement. I do not think Trump had any fore knowledge of this attack and the Senators and Pompeo did.

This is unacceptable.
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Moscow put the Russian aircraft at risk by using them as airborne platforms for launching cruise missiles and glide-bombs at Ukraine.

Ukraine's actions are permitted under the Geneva Conventions and the Laws of Armed Conflict (IHL).
 
Rogue Valley said:
Mike Flynn agreed to a plea deal with the DOJ for "willfully and knowingly" making false statements to the FBI about the his communications with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. Two weeks before sentencing, Flynn withdrew his guilty plea. At AG Bill Barr's direction, the Justice Department filed a court motion to drop all charges against Flynn. Donald Trump pardoned Flynn on 25 November 2020.

The Trump II DoJ headed by Pam Bondi shut down the DoJ unit that investigates Russian attacks on the US and our elections. The same happened at the FBI under Kash Patel.

And MAGAts wonder why Zelenskyy elected to not share info about Operation Spiderweb with TACO.

And then we have this.....

www.newsweek.com

Report on Russia's 2016 US election meddling disappears from Senate website

"No results found" was the message on the intelligence.senate.gov webpage.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
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And this is why, if you see Anything on the Internet that you want to be able to refer to in the future, Print It!
 
Rogue Valley said:
Moscow put the Russian aircraft at risk by using them as airborne platforms for launching cruise missiles and glide-bombs at Ukraine.

Ukraine's actions are permitted under the Geneva Conventions and the Laws of Armed Conflict (IHL).
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Did the US put our satellites at risk by using them in an attack on their bombers?
 
Cosmo said:
What do you mean by "proxy?" Per Google's AI definition of the word:


But I don't see how this is a case of the US wanting to engage Russia in battle without doing so directly. What makes you think the US wanted to fight Russia in the first place?

So maybe the West learned its lesson that appeasement doesn't work. Perhaps that's why they reacted a bit faster against Russia, and that's partly why Russia is still stuck in a quagmire 11 years later rather than steamrolling across Europe.



What does this have to do with anything? Looks like some bizarre attempt to insert Kremlin apologist metodichka into the discussion.

Russia got as far as Kiev. Since then they've been pushed back significantly.
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To call that "all PR" exposes your agenda.
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Link to your map.

The map is stupid.
 
Juin said:
Did Zelensky inform Trump before the attack or not? I am not asking for speculations
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Obviously not, because the Russians never knew it was coming.
 
Juin said:
The west has sunk in hundreds of billions of dollars, what do they have to show for it? Zero.
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Russia's military has been humiliated & depleted & its economy has been stagnated.

I'd say we got our money's worth.
 
MAGAnificent said:
Where Zelensky was wrong was protocol and initial refusal to accept the concept of a cease fire if one could be worked out. Zelensky's team is at this point in time negotiating with the Russians

The drone attack on the bombers may change that.
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Yes it got Putin to withdraw from the negotiation charade entirely. He called Ukraine a terrorist State for defending itself from missiles launched at Ukraine's cities by the bombers they destroyed. The reality is that Putin is the war criminal launching terror attacks on Ukrainian civilians every night.
 
3 years later, Ukraine still stands, and is still achieving victories in battle. I think it's time for Putin to quit, and to leave Ukraine.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
3 years later, Ukraine still stands, and is still achieving victories in battle. I think it's time for Putin to quit, and to leave Ukraine.
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Ukraine is losing its battles. Not at all sure what you are talking about
 
W_Heisenberg said:
3 years later, Ukraine still stands, and is still achieving victories in battle. I think it's time for Putin to quit, and to leave Ukraine.
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There's a disconnect here. If Ukraine is achieving victories Russia won't be there and, critically, the Europeans won't be screaming for ceasefire. What you are calling victories are PR stunts that did not move the needle on the ground
 
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