GE Workers in Ohio and South Carolina Walk Out To Protest Vaccination Mandate

[BlueTex]

Right. I was incorrect when I stated in my post #208 that it was HIPPA laws that prevented employers from asking employees about their vaccine status. Clearly employers are not prohibited from asking. But employees also are free to not provide private health information to their employers. Of course, if the employee is requesting some sort of accommodation from their employer based on some disability or illness then it would make sense that the employer be able to have more details about that disease or disability.

However, I doubt the Federal government can legally mandate or require employers to demand their employees be vaccinated against COVID and provide proof or be fired. For nursing home or hospital employees I can see why they may require employees be vaccinated. But GE or restaurant chain ought not be able to force employees to take a still "emergency use" vaccine. Does GE or McDonalds require their employees to be vaccinated against the flu? And the Flu vaccines are fully FDA approved. Your thoughts?

There are several fully FDA approved COVID vaccinations so that is not accurate. I think there is plenty of precedent o support a vaccination mandate going all the way back to Jacobson v Massachusetts.

 

[NatMorton]

I haven't dodged you at all. Your examples are not legitimate. Pro athletes have contracts. That's a fact. And in those contracts - which I know all about - injuries are addressed because they are an inherent factor in playing on that level. Come up with something legitimate if you want to argue the point. Thanks!!

Some contracts have an injury clause, others don’t. Obviously my example was one where that didn’t apply. If you can’t get passed that, let’s modify the example and try again.

I employ ditch diggers. One of my employees develops a elbow injury playing tennis on the weekends that impairs the use of his left arm. He now digs holes twice as slowly has the other diggers. When I ask him why he’s digging so slowly he explains that it’s his elbow, that he can have arthroscopic surgery to correct the problem, that his insurance will cover it, but that he’d rather not go through the hassle and risk. I then fire him for sub-standard work.

Tell me what law (an actual, not imaginary law) has been broken.

 

[Logophile]

Some contracts have an injury clause, others don’t. Obviously my example was one where that didn’t apply. If you can’t get passed that, let’s modify the example and try again.

I employ ditch diggers. One of my employees develops a elbow injury playing tennis on the weekends that impairs the use of his left arm. He now digs holes twice as slowly has the other diggers. When I ask him why he’s digging so slowly he explains that it’s his elbow, that he can have arthroscopic surgery to correct the problem, that his insurance will cover it, but that he’d rather not go through the hassle and risk. I then fire him for sub-standard work.

Tell me what law (an actual, not imaginary law) has been broken.

You haven't broken any law. He wasn't injured at your workplace. He isn't opting for surgery, albeit it's none of your business to ask so I have to assume he volunteered the information. Right?? Thanks!!

 

[Logophile]

There are several fully FDA approved COVID vaccinations so that is not accurate. I think there is plenty of precedent o support a vaccination mandate going all the way back to Jacobson v Massachusetts.

Lol!! It didn't work out very well for the 18th Amendment, and a vaccine mandate won't do any better. But the vaccine zealots can sure try. You can all look just like her. Thanks!!

 

[Callen]

, I doubt the Federal government can legally mandate or require employers to demand their employees be vaccinated against COVID and provide proof or be fired. For nursing home or hospital employees I can see why they may require employees be vaccinated. But GE or restaurant chain ought not be able to force employees to take a still "emergency use" vaccine.

I think what gets lost in these discussions is the employer wanting to protect the company from a serious internal outbreak that keeps great numbers of employees from coming to work. The hit to productivity and profits can be enormous as we saw with the meat packing plants.

Comparisons of Covid to the seasonal flu are like comparing apples to oranges .Covid is much more contagious and much more dehabiltaing.

I may be wrong but I think the vaccines have received full approval.

 

[NatMorton]

You haven't broken any law. He wasn't injured at your workplace. He isn't opting for surgery, albeit it's none of your business to ask so I have to assume he volunteered the information. Right?? Thanks!!

The vaccination issue is little different. And yes, as an employer I have every right to ask why performance has suffered just as I have a right to ask if an employee poses a health risk to the workplace.

Thank you for acknowledging that employers are violating no legal obligation if they mandate COVID vaccinations as a condition of employment.

 

[iguanaman]

This is a growing trend in America. People are pushing back. Over 750 walkout in protest
——

Employees at the General Electric Complex in Greenville, South Carolina, along with 750 GE employees in Ohio, conducted a walk out around 10:45am Thursday to protest the company’s vaccine mandate. Media have mostly been silent except for a few local reports.

GE Workers in Ohio and South Carolina Walk Out To Protest Vaccination Mandate - The Last Refuge

Employees at the General Electric Complex in Greenville, South Carolina, along with 750 GE employees in Ohio, conducted a walk out around 10:45am Thursday to protest the company’s vaccine mandate. Media have mostly been silent except for a few local reports. Media in South Carolina: ...

theconservativetreehouse.com

I say we now deport them if they still won't vaccinate. It is not a choice.

 

[NatMorton]

Employees have the right to keep their medical information confidential and private.

Let's test that with an extreme example. Does an employee in the workplace have the right to keep confidential and private their status of being infected with the highly contagious (and very lethal) Ebola virus?

 

[iguanaman]

Employees have the right to keep their medical information confidential and private. But employers also have the right to know about their employees' illness or disability, and have the right to seek medical information in order to provide appropriate accommodation. So how does not having a flu shot or a CoVID vaccine relevant to accommodating the employee's disability?

Well I agree HIPPA laws per se would not prohibit an employer from asking employees about their vaccination status. However, as you stated in post # 210:

If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated, that is not a HIPAA violation, and employees may decide whether to provide that information to their employer.

Now if an employee is demanding the employer accommodate some disability, then they may be required to provide tp provide medical information about their disability. But not getting Flu or COVID shot is not something an employee is required to give an employer. Now if the employer is a hospital, clinic, or nursing home I think they should be able to require employees to get vaccinated.

As noted above the employer can ask but the employee can refuse divulge health information unless they are asking for some accommodation based on their disability or health status.

Employees have the right to keep their medical information confidential and private.

Unless they want an abortion in Texas. Right?

 

[iguanaman]

There are several fully FDA approved COVID vaccinations so that is not accurate. I think there is plenty of precedent o support a vaccination mandate going all the way back to Jacobson v Massachusetts.

The truth is vaccinations for deadly contagious diseases has NEVER been a choice here. Where that is coming from I do not know. It sounds like Russian propaganda to me. Vaccinations like for covid are not ever a choice.

 

[Logophile]

The vaccination issue is little different. And yes, as an employer I have every right to ask why performance has suffered just as I have a right to ask if an employee poses a health risk to the workplace.

Thank you for acknowledging that employers are violating no legal obligation if they mandate COVID vaccinations as a condition of employment.

I never said that, Nat. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between my words and your gross assumptions, but you've made a mistake. And frankly, manufacturing words that a poster didn't post isn't kosher. So, I'll leave it at that. Thanks!!

 

[NatMorton]

I never said that, Nat. I'm sorry you can't see the difference between my words and your gross assumptions, but you've made a mistake. And frankly, manufacturing words that a poster didn't post isn't kosher. So, I'll leave it at that. Thanks!!

I didn't quote you, so you can hardly ding me for misquoting you.

But by acknowledging no law was broken in my ditch digger hypothetical you have acknowledged there is nothing illegal about an employer mandating a job requirement that an employee can only meet by undergoing what you called "bodily intrusion." Logic dictates you've agreed with my original assertion, unless you want to amend your answer to that last hypothetical. Do you?

 

[Logophile]

I didn't quote you, so you can hardly ding me for misquoting you.

But by acknowledging no law was broken in my ditch digger hypothetical you have acknowledged there is nothing illegal about an employer mandating a job requirement that an employee can only meet by undergoing what you called "bodily intrusion." Logic dictates you've agreed with my original assertion, unless you want to amend your answer to that last hypothetical. Do you?

Nat, it's apples and oranges. You're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Let me explain. Your ditch digger isn't performing his job. By your own admission, that's your condition for firing him. Your unvaccinated worker IS ostensibly performing his job. You just don't like the fact that he is not altering his physical state to suit you. Your first example is a question of job related duty that cannot be fulfilled. The second is an arbitrary demand that is a coercive. Thanks!!

 

[Callen]

The second is an arbitrary demand

Meant to ensure a highly contagious disease dies not infect large numbers of employees and impacting productivity and profits.

 

[iguanaman]

Nat, it's apples and oranges. You're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Let me explain. Your ditch digger isn't performing his job. By your own admission, that's your condition for firing him. Your unvaccinated worker IS ostensibly performing his job. You just don't like the fact that he is not altering his physical state to suit you. Your first example is a question of job related duty that cannot be fulfilled. The second is an arbitrary demand that is a coercive. Thanks!!

A workers job is not to endanger others in the workplace. Not in million years. The unvaccinated must be isolated as pariahs. They are killing the vaccinated too.

CDC: Unvaccinated 5 times more likely to get COVID-19​

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...unvaccinated-5-times-more-likely-get-covid-19

 

[Logophile]

Meant to ensure a highly contagious disease dies not infect large numbers of employees and impacting productivity and profits.

Yet it ensures nothing. Therein lies the problem. Thanks!!

 

[iguanaman]

Yet it ensures nothing. Therein lies the problem. Thanks!!

It is the best we can do and that is important when lives are at stake. No vaccine is 100% and yet we have eliminated large outbreaks of dozens of diseases thru mass vaccination and we can do it with covid because of THIS...

CDC: Unvaccinated 5 times more likely to get COVID-19​

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...unvaccinated-5-times-more-likely-get-covid-19

 

[Callen]

it ensures nothing

That is not true. It isn't fool proof but it is much better than rampant spread of an unchecked disease proven to be much more serious amongst the unvaccinated. But you will believe what you want....and the business community will do what they need to do and the courts will agree with them. Just think then we can change from this subject to judicial over reach. A change would be welcome.

 

[BlueTex]

Let's test that with an extreme example. Does an employee in the workplace have the right to keep confidential and private their status of being infected with the highly contagious (and very lethal) Ebola virus?

Or and even more common example: Does an employer have the right to subject me to drug testing?

 

[NatMorton]

Nat, it's apples and oranges. You're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Let me explain. Your ditch digger isn't performing his job. By your own admission, that's your condition for firing him. Your unvaccinated worker IS ostensibly performing his job. You just don't like the fact that he is not altering his physical state to suit you. Your first example is a question of job related duty that cannot be fulfilled. The second is an arbitrary demand that is a coercive. Thanks!!

No, you're still not getting it. Being vaccinated is no less a job requirement that digging holes at a certain pace provided that I, the employer, declare it to be so.

You're simply denying the employer the right to define what is an what is not a job requirement. Why would you ever want to give government that kind of control?

 

[BlueTex]

Nat, it's apples and oranges. You're trying to make a connection that isn't there. Let me explain. Your ditch digger isn't performing his job. By your own admission, that's your condition for firing him. Your unvaccinated worker IS ostensibly performing his job. You just don't like the fact that he is not altering his physical state to suit you. Your first example is a question of job related duty that cannot be fulfilled. The second is an arbitrary demand that is a coercive. Thanks!!

As an employer, can I subject and employee to a drug test and terminate their employment based on the results of that drug test?

 

[NatMorton]

As an employer, can I subject and employee to a drug test and terminate their employment based on the results of that drug test?

I think he thinks you'll run afoul of the UN Human Rights Council.

 

[Callen]

I love it. Covid has moved the right from employer rights to employee rights and to pro union. Good job Joe!

 

[Ethel2]

And so the vaccine zealots are now lamenting:

A week ago the whole Internet loved Southwest and American, lovely airlines that disobeyed Texas Governor Greg Abbott’s order to let employees go unvaccinated against Covid. We regret to inform you these airlines did not, in fact, disobey Abbott. As Tim O’Brien points out, these airlines — which claimed to give President Joe Biden’s mandate order precedence over Abbott’s counter-order — apparently think the word “mandate” means “gentle suggestion.” They’re encouraging employees to seek exemptions and keeping them on the job while they await a decision. This is not exactly in keeping with the spirit of a mandate.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Lol!! Yes, even American Airlines is not willing to give up its best. Thanks!!

Wrong again.
AA is a government contractor and MUST follow your President’s requirement that ALL government contractors MUST require their employees to be vaccinated. It’s not a request. You want to be a government contractor you MUST follow their rules. I suspect it’s the same with ALL airlines that are government contractors:

“
American Airlines told employeeson Friday that it would require all U.S.-based employees and some international crew members to be vaccinated.

In a letter to employees signed by the company’s chief executive and presidents, American said the move was necessary because of its status as a government contractor. Last month, President Biden announced that employees of government contractors would be required to be vaccinated, with only limited exceptions.”

 

[Logophile]

As an employer, can I subject and employee to a drug test and terminate their employment based on the results of that drug test?

Was that a condition of his employment?? Thanks!!