GE Workers in Ohio and South Carolina Walk Out To Protest Vaccination Mandate

[Callen]

. If they took the time to listen to their own doctors the vast majority of them would already have been vaccinated.

Trust me on this one, they are already vaccinated. The numbers of well educated people who are not vaccinated is very low. In fact as noisy as some may be very small numbers comparatively speaking will walk away from good jobs.

"It is a tale , Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."

 

[Ethel2]

Trust me on this one, they are already vaccinated. The numbers of well educated people who are not vaccinated is very low. In fact as noisy as some may be very small numbers comparatively speaking will walk away from good jobs.

"It is a tale , Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."

Maybe they are vaccinated in Canada but by definition the covidiots are not vaccinated here. That’s who we are talking about-the selfish jerks who are holding the normal people here hostage.

 

[Callen]

they are vaccinated in Canada but by definition the covidiots are not vaccinated here. That’s who we are talking about-the selfish jerks who are holding the normal people here hostage.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. My point is that the majority of those vocally "opposing" vaccine mandates like all the engineers Gbg3 supposedly knows , the police unions etc are all likely mostly vaccinated themselves but just oppose the notion of a mandate. Seattle police are a good example....they were protesting the uploading of their vaccine status and wanting vaccines to be part of the bargaining process. There was never any discussion about not wanting to be vaccinated.

ETA Canada is at almost 88% of those eligible with at least their first shot. I think 83% fully vaccinated. That is what can happen when vaccines aren't politized.

 

[cpwill]

Well that's a better explanation. But since employers don't give the vaccine, I still don't see why it has anything to do with reporting to OSHA.

Because employers are already required to report those events, including the impacts of things like mandated vaccines.

Except for COVID, because they don't want bad news getting out, so, they decided to make an exception.

But be that as it may, when OSHA comes out and explains in full, in writing, why they are not including this, it is hardly being dishonest or hiding anything. Do you think people have a burning desire to know how many of their coworkers had a serious reaction to the vaccine? Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE ANTIVAXXERS TRYING TO CONVINCE EVERYONE NOT TO TAKE THE SHOT.

Or people trying to weigh risk. Regardless, if one side insists that information relevant to such a decision and discussion can't be out there because that might not help my argument, then that entity is no longer a trustworthy presenter of information.

 

[cpwill]

More avoidable economic damage caused entirely by covidiots.
And the end result will be a safer workplace and fewer deaths in the nation.
All damage can be avoided if the covidiots did the right thing and held up their end of the social bargain.

The unvaccinated don't go away simply because they cease working for large employers, nor does disagreeing with you (and me!) about the vaccine mean that someone is an idiot.

The damage in this case, however, is being done by the mandate. Biden and the Democrats will own it, especially if they keep acting like dismissive uncaring jerks

 

[MaryP]

Because employers are already required to report those events, including the impacts of things like mandated vaccines.

Except for COVID, because they don't want bad news getting out, so, they decided to make an exception.




Or people trying to weigh risk. Regardless, if one side insists that information relevant to such a decision and discussion can't be out there because that might not help my argument, then that entity is no longer a trustworthy presenter of information.

The information is out there and it is no secret. It is collected by VAERS and reported on by CDC and there are many articles about it.

 

[Ethel2]

The unvaccinated don't go away simply because they cease working for large employers, nor does disagreeing with you (and me!) about the vaccine mean that someone is an idiot.

The damage in this case, however, is being done by the mandate. Biden and the Democrats will own it, especially if they keep acting like dismissive uncaring jerks

No, the damage is absolutely being done by the selfish jerks who refuse to hold up their end of the social bargain. Schwarzenegger calls them schmucks.
And they are.
They need to be banned from nearly everywhere, treated like the pariahs they are.

 

[cpwill]

No, the damage is absolutely being done by the selfish jerks who refuse to hold up their end of the social bargain. Schwarzenegger calls them schmucks.
And they are.
They need to be banned from nearly everywhere, treated like the pariahs they are.

What a thick bubble yours must be.

 

[cpwill]

The information is out there and it is no secret. It is collected by VAERS and reported on by CDC and there are many articles about it.

Information about it - and infection rates as well - is incomplete and imperfect because reporting is incomplete and imperfect.

If Trump had actually decided to stop the government from recording cases of COVID on, say, federal land and facilities (such as military bases) explicitly because he wished to reduce people's awareness of the incidence of COVID cases and cause the number of recorded cases to be smaller, I feel fairly confident that folks in favor of this mandate would have exploded with rage and indignation.

But, because now it's about a health concern that you wish to minimize... well... I mean, other information is out there.....

 

[MaryP]

The unvaccinated don't go away simply because they cease working for large employers, nor does disagreeing with you (and me!) about the vaccine mean that someone is an idiot.

The damage in this case, however, is being done by the mandate. Biden and the Democrats will own it, especially if they keep acting like dismissive uncaring jerks

President Biden rose five notches in my book by mandating everyone he legally could. No one who holds it against him would have ever voted for him or any Democrat, anyway. It's just one more thing you will add to the list of what you see as his 'failures.' All the states that have mandated vaccines and companies that got the ball rolling by doing it themselves are all heroes in my book.

No one is acting like a dismissive, uncaring jerk except the antivaxxers. They had plenty of time to see that no one was going to start sprouting a third eye from taking the vaccine, do their 'research, and realize it is saving lives. A lot of them.

 

[Ethel2]

What a thick bubble yours must be.

It’s all good.
Covidiots will come around-or get infected. And increasingly they will have the privileges afforded to normal people withdrawn.
They will cave.

 

[MaryP]

Information about it - and infection rates as well - is incomplete and imperfect because reporting is incomplete and imperfect.

If Trump had actually decided to stop the government from recording cases of COVID on, say, federal land and facilities (such as military bases) explicitly because he wished to reduce people's awareness of the incidence of COVID cases and cause the number of recorded cases to be smaller, I feel fairly confident that folks in favor of this mandate would have exploded with rage and indignation.

But, because now it's about a health concern that you wish to minimize... well... I mean, other information is out there.....

No, the information is out there, it is not 'other' information. It is THE information and if it is incomplete and imperfect, it is because it is ongoing. The NICS data base has glaring missing data, too, but somehow we accept and rely on it, don't we? Nothing is complete and perfect in this world. That is one lame excuse.

 

[cpwill]

President Biden rose five notches in my book by mandating everyone he legally could. No one who holds it against him would have ever voted for him or any Democrat, anyway.

People who are vaccinated themselves can also oppose mandating it for others, and will certainly be willing to do so when that mandate begins negatively impacting their lives. If Republicans were smart and capable of enforcing discipline on their members to make reasoned and nuanced arguments, they would ride this issue in 2022 and 2024. They aren't, so, we will probably get a lot of performative jackassery from them, instead.

It's just one more thing you will add to the list of what you see as his 'failures.'

No, I think this was a policy mistake. Failures tend to come in the form of results - in this case, it will be the resultant economic damage and continued politicization of this virus and the response to it.

No one is acting like a dismissive, uncaring jerk except the antivaxxers.

This is sadly not the case. Heck, you were literally accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist .

The "Our Patience Has Run Out" and "You Are All Acting Like Children" approach is going to backfire, politically. It only fails to jar the ears of those who are already firmly in the bubble.

They had plenty of time to see that no one was going to start sprouting a third eye from taking the vaccine, do their 'research, and realize it is saving lives. A lot of them.

I concur that the vaccines are a good step forward, and save lives, and that we've had plenty of time to demonstrate that short term effects are very rare.

 

[cpwill]

No, the information is out there, it is not 'other' information.

There is indeed different buckets of information. Studies from Kentucky v studies from Massachussetts v studies from across multiple states v studies from Israel, v studies from the U.K., or European continent, etc.

Reporting of COVID cases we know is incomplete not only because it is ongoing, but because reporting is incomplete. Plenty of people get COVID and just stay home. Plenty of others get it and are asymptomatic.

It is THE information and if it is incomplete and imperfect, it is because it is ongoing. The NICS data base has glaring missing data, too, but somehow we accept and rely on it, don't we? Nothing is complete and perfect in this world. That is one lame excuse.

It is not an excuse. It is an argument for why we shouldn't start cutting off streams of information because we don't like them, and, more specifically, in this case, it is an argument for why cutting off those streams of information because we don't like them makes it very hard for us to convince others to trust us.

If you were shopping for a used car, and the salesman on the lot said that you weren't allowed to drive or ride in the car pre-purchase, explicitly because you might get the impression that the car had mechanical problems, but you should trust him anyway on it... would you buy it? Or - even if he would have turned out to be right and the car would have been fine - would his refusal to allow you to observe the information yourself have caused you not to trust him?

 

[911Sparky]

I think your right as a business owner is to demand it of people you are interviewing, so that they know that it is a prerequisite for the job to be vaccinated. They are not already dependent on your employ and can walk away. But bear in mind, it is discrimination. I do not think you have right to fire anybody that is already in your employ because they will not submit to your demand to physically alter them. That is a human rights violation not to mention a breach of agreement. Your employees may be utterly dependent upon the income you provide to support their families, and your attempt to alter them physically or fire them is an attempt at coercion and blackmail, potentially trying to starve them into submission. That is a violation of universal human rights. Thanks!!

Unless you are under a union contract, you can be fired if your employer doesn't like the color of your shirt. As Nat Morton stated above, as long as you are not discriminated against as one of a protected class, you have no guarantee of a job. If I were in business today every employee would be vaccinated or replaced.

 

[MaryP]

It’s all good.
Covidiots will come around-or get infected. And increasingly they will have the privileges afforded to normal people withdrawn.
They will cave.

And unfortunately, there are a whole lot of people like cpwill who are vaccinated and feel no heat, who will continue to throw out all the stumbling blocks and excuses they can think of to encourage people to stay unvaccinated. Government is lying, the dangers are hidden, etc etc.

It's very discouraging.

 

[cpwill]

It’s all good.
Covidiots will come around-or get infected. And increasingly they will have the privileges afforded to normal people withdrawn.

This is almost certain to not work, but raise political conflict to new heights.

 

[Ethel2]

And unfortunately, there are a whole lot of people like cpwill who are vaccinated and feel no heat, who will continue to throw out all the stumbling blocks and excuses they can think of to encourage people to stay unvaccinated. Government is lying, the dangers are hidden, etc etc.

It's very discouraging.

Nearly everyone can be convinced to get vaccinated if it hurts their wallets enough.
Surcharges on all health and life insurance premiums
Extra taxes on public transportation

It can happen

 

[Ethel2]

This is almost certain to not work, but raise political conflict to new heights.

I don’t care about political conflict
I only care about controlling the pandemic

Whatever it takes

 

[cpwill]

And unfortunately, there are a whole lot of people like cpwill who are vaccinated and feel no heat,

I got COVID after I got vaccinated. I certainly felt heat I also work in a place where the vaccine is mandated. Friends of mine are set to potentially lose jobs over this. A buddy of mine who had already had COVID had a violent reaction to the first Pfizer shot. turns out that reaction to the vaccine is actually not uncommon. He sure as hell doesn't want to get the second. He's a federal worker, will the federal government allow him to have only one shot?

There are doctors who recommend precisely that approach:

According to Dr. Eddie Stenehjem, Infectious Diseases Physician at Intermountain Healthcare, there is some observational data that those who’ve had COVID-19 get pretty symptomatic after their first dose of the COVID-19 shot.​

​

On the other hand, “most people that haven’t had COVID-19, take the first shot, no problem,” he says. “Don’t react, maybe have a sore arm. And then their second shot, they can be symptomatic with fevers, chills, kind of feeling rundown.” He says this happens because, for those who’ve had COVID-19, that first shot is really their booster shot, so that’s the shot that they tend to become symptomatic from. And that’s completely normal, Dr. Stenehjem says.​

​

“There is some data and a lot of people talking about this – if you’ve had COVID-19 – that you may only need one shot of Pfizer and Moderna because that’s truly your booster shot. We don’t have any good clinical data on that. That’s work that’s in progress, but that is something that may come to fruition… that people who’ve had COVID only necessary only need one shot that acts as your booster,” he explains.​

....But because we want everything to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, even if it isn't, rather than recognizing complexity and uncertainty, and because this is now a political football, we can't allow solutions that are actually better for individuals. Probably they'll make him get another shot to keep his job - not because it's better for him, but because the policy isn't nuanced or wise.

who will continue to throw out all the stumbling blocks and excuses they can think of to encourage people to stay unvaccinated.

I actively encourage actual unvaccinated people in my life to get vaccinated. These are my friends.

Government is lying, the dangers are hidden, etc etc.

Well, to be fair, it would be an easier case to make if government medical bureaucrats would stop being deceptive assclowns in public.

 

[cpwill]

I don’t care about political conflict
I only care about controlling the pandemic

Whatever it takes

Whatever it takes?

Nuke the entire planet. That'll end COVID toot sweet

If, however, you don't, actually, mean that (and, I suspect you do not), then you're gonna have to deal with trade-offs, and policy designed for the real world is usually more effective than policy designed to appeal to highly-online or highly-bubbled groupthink circles.

 

[MaryP]

There is indeed different buckets of information. Studies from Kentucky v studies from Massachussetts v studies from across multiple states v studies from Israel, v studies from the U.K., or European continent, etc.

Reporting of COVID cases we know is incomplete not only because it is ongoing, but because reporting is incomplete. Plenty of people get COVID and just stay home. Plenty of others get it and are asymptomatic.



It is not an excuse. It is an argument for why we shouldn't start cutting off streams of information because we don't like them, and, more specifically, in this case, it is an argument for why cutting off those streams of information because we don't like them makes it very hard for us to convince others to trust us.

If you were shopping for a used car, and the salesman on the lot said that you weren't allowed to drive or ride in the car pre-purchase, explicitly because you might get the impression that the car had mechanical problems, but you should trust him anyway on it... would you buy it? Or - even if he would have turned out to be right and the car would have been fine - would his refusal to allow you to observe the information yourself have caused you not to trust him?

I don't know about you, but I was talking about reporting adverse effects to OSHA. It is already reported to VAERS and you are right there are many studies and reports on them from all over the world. So why would not having that information duplicated by OSHA be a deal breaker? Your comparison is ridiculous. There is more information on Covid and the vaccines than any one person could ever absorb. There is also plain old common sense and personal experience, which is that most of the people screaming about vaccines have already been vaccinated against other diseases during their lifetimes. And they didn't die or have children with two heads.

 

[Hamish Howl]

This is a growing trend in America. People are pushing back. Over 750 walkout in protest

In other news, 750 new job openings.

 

[Hamish Howl]

ou don't, actually, mean that (and, I suspect you do not), then you're gonna have to deal with trade-offs,

Yeah? Why?

 

[cpwill]

Yeah? Why?

Well, not least because we live in the real world