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Gaza deaths under reported

Allan

Allan

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More than 64,000 dead according to a study. At the start of the conflict Hamas was estimated to have about 20,000 fighters which makes this an unjustifiable civilian toll.

CNN — The number of people killed in Gaza is significantly higher than the figure reported by authorities in the enclave, a peer-reviewed study by researchers from a leading health research university in the UK has found.

According to findings announced by the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (LSHTM) and published in The Lancet journal, there were an estimated 64,260 “traumatic injury deaths” in Gaza between October 7, 2023 and June 30, 2024. The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza put the figure at 37,877 at the time.
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NatMorton said:
What ratio would make it justifiable, in your opinion?
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Israel's currently sitting at around WW2 levels of civilian to combatant casualty ratios (~60% of all deaths are civilian). That is, a war that included a genocide, multiple famines, and two nuclear weapons. For a comparable situation, the civilian death rate in the Russian invasion of Ukraine is around 12%.
 
spud_meister said:
Israel's currently sitting at around WW2 levels of civilian to combatant casualty ratios (~60% of all deaths are civilian). That is, a war that included a genocide, multiple famines, and two nuclear weapons. For a comparable situation, the civilian death rate in the Russian invasion of Ukraine is around 12%.
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Were the Axis powers or the Ukrainians using their citizens as human shields?
 
spud_meister said:
Good point, Israel's use of human shields definitely contributes to the disproportionate number of civilian deaths.
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Paywall, so I can't judge whether the story is likely to be legitimate.

Are you trying to claim that Hamas has not been building military installations under schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings or merely trying to deflect the conversation away from that fact?
 
NatMorton said:
Paywall, so I can't judge whether the story is likely to be legitimate.
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NatMorton said:
Are you trying to claim that Hamas has not been building military installations under schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings or merely trying to deflect the conversation away from that fact?
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I simply don't believe that is a justification for genocide. After all, Israel's largest military base is in a residential neighbourhood in Tel Aviv, using your logic, I'd have to conclude every rocket attack on the city is perfectly legitimate.
 
spud_meister said:



I simply don't believe that is a justification for genocide. After all, Israel's largest military base is in a residential neighbourhood in Tel Aviv, using your logic, I'd have to conclude every rocket attack on the city is perfectly legitimate.
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We're not discussing genocide. We're discussing why a war in Gaza might have an unusually high civilian casualty rate: a topic you brought up.

My explanation is that Hamas has built its military installations in, around, and among civilian buildings. I would further add that this is by design, as Hamas sees civilian casualties as a benefit, not a cost. They find their deaths useful in convincing some in the west that theirs is the just cause. Please explain why I should not believe this to be true.
 
London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (LSHTM) what the **** is that.

I mean what kind of study is that.
 
By fair election the Palestinian voted for the home grown terrorist organization Hamas to lead in Gaza.

The Palestinian people made they're bed, now they have to sleep in it.
 
Allan said:
More than 64,000 dead according to a study. At the start of the conflict Hamas was estimated to have about 20,000 fighters which makes this an unjustifiable civilian toll.



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Allan said:
More than 64,000 dead according to a study. At the start of the conflict Hamas was estimated to have about 20,000 fighters which makes this an unjustifiable civilian toll.



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The LSHTM is notoriously anti Israel. Their 'study' will be so skewed as to be worthless.
 
NatMorton said:
We're not discussing genocide.
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Yes we are
NatMorton said:
My explanation is that Hamas has built its military installations in, around, and among civilian buildings. I would further add that this is by design, as Hamas sees civilian casualties as a benefit, not a cost. They find their deaths useful in convincing some in the west that theirs is the just cause. Please explain why I should not believe this to be true.
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That would be a good explanation, if civilian deaths only happened at "military installations in, around, and among civilian buildings", however, we have ample evidence of the murder of civilians taking place in residential streets or refugee camps, as well as the aforementioned use of human shields. There's also the deliberate targeting of aid workers and children. And the denial of food and medical aid to civilians.
 
Allan said:
More than 64,000 dead according to a study. At the start of the conflict Hamas was estimated to have about 20,000 fighters which makes this an unjustifiable civilian toll.



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Not only that, but Hamas isn’t having any trouble replacing its losses.

As it turns out, mass murdering civilians and using them as human shields tends to lead to them wanting to join the group fighting back against the occupying forces.

Who could have predicted that? 🙄
 
NatMorton said:
Were the Axis powers or the Ukrainians using their citizens as human shields?
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The IDF has made extensive use of human shields during the conflict, as its own soldiers have freely reported.
 
beancounter said:
If you can't finish a war, don't start one.

And don't go crying to the international community when you've misjudged your opponents resolve, and you find yourself in over your head.
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Hmm. Does that mean America should stop crying about 9/11? After all, it definitely “started” the war, and definitely underestimated Al Qaeda’s resolve.

And then America quickly found itself in over its head in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Gee, starting to see the problem with your narrative yet?
 
NatMorton said:
Then why aren't Israeli civilian deaths also disproportionately high?
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Because the Palestinians don’t have an Air Force which has been conducting large scale indiscriminate bombings for a year.

Israel has already killed more civilians in a single year than Hamas has in its entire existence.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because the Palestinians don’t have an Air Force which has been conducting large scale indiscriminate bombings for a year.
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Then of what relevance is your claim about Israel using human shields? It does not appear that those shields are needed.

Tigerace117 said:
Israel has already killed more civilians in a single year than Hamas has in its entire existence.
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The lesson there is that Hamas should be careful whom they choose to wage war against.
 
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