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Well, you don't get to equate little boys and girls to grown men and women as an argument. There is a differnce between boys and men. Boys are boys. Men are aware of their sexual desires. Openly gay means openly gay. We don't get to argue that they should be respected for their sexual preference and then claim that we should pretend that it makes no difference.It is a different topic. Boys grow up showing with boys and girls grow up showering with girls. Never the twain shall meet. I would have no hesitation in showering with a room full of lesbians. They're all girls, just like me.
Asking a woman to shower with a man is not the same thing.
Why are showers segregated by gender, what is the reason or purpose of this?
It is a different topic. Boys grow up showing with boys and girls grow up showering with girls. Never the twain shall meet. I would have no hesitation in showering with a room full of lesbians. They're all girls, just like me.
Asking a woman to shower with a man is not the same thing.
I would guess it starts with mom, dad, the school board......
What are you asking?
Why are showers segregated by gender, what is the reason or purpose of this?
Come on, Goshin. I think you might be thinking over the idea but I don't believe you're sold on it.
How does a woman/woman or man/man showering together in any way equate to a woman and a man showering together?
I really don't want to derail Redress' thread. It's a good one. I'll join you in another thread on this topic if you want to start one.
Whaddya say?
:wink2:
What is to distrust when the problem is not known? If you don't know about something, you can't be afraid/paranoid/homophobic/etc.Wouldn't distrust come with having to hide it, and lie about it?
Rumors don't spread. Soldiers live their lives and move on. Nobody gives a **** until the problem is KNOWN.I would rather have people be able to be out in the open, than have to hide it, and have rumors about people spreading.
Until you can understand what goes on in the mind of a combat killer, I don't think 90% of the combat soldiers I have worked with give a **** what type of experience homosexuals can "share" with them.The fact is that true acceptance of others, and having shared experience's bring unity.
Its not nonsense to those who you want to impose your sense of "fair" and "politically correct" nonsense on. Im not so sure how this difference will help society as a whole either.Also, why would someone being gay bring distrust about them? This fallacy that all gay people can't wait to get in the shower with heterosexuals so they can gawk at them is nonsense. Being truthful is the best policy, and allowing gays to openly serve, will not only help our military, but our society as a whole.
Come on, Goshin. I think you might be thinking over the idea but I don't believe you're sold on it.
How does a woman/woman or man/man showering together in any way equate to a woman and a man showering together?
I really don't want to derail Redress' thread. It's a good one. I'll join you in another thread on this topic if you want to start one.
Whaddya say?
:wink2:
Double standard?
I'm just asking questions...
At what high schools? The ones in San Fransisco and Massachusetts? No offense but wasn't the last time you were in high school was the 1950s or 1960s? So how would you know what went on in the high schools or high school locker rooms in the last 30 years?
How would a coed shower and coed room sharing be different than heterosexuals and gays showering and sharing rooms together?
It is irrelevant to this discussion as people have mentioned before.
See, this is why I'd rather wait until the Pentagon finishes their studies on the subject. We need to KNOW if this is going to cause readiness problems of some kind before we go messing with the organization that protects the nation.
If the Joint Chiefs figure they can handle it, and the troops don't have a problem with it, fine. I'm just saying let's be sure we aren't opening a big can of "OH CHIT I didn't know THAT would happen!" before we do this.
Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?
Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?
Hmmm.
I'd like to see figures on just how many gays in the military we're talking about....
...vs how many military personnel would have a major problem with repealing DADT and might end their career early over it?
If the former number is 1% and the latter is 30%, there could indeed be a readiness issue.
First and foremost the military has to be able to fight well; all issues of fairness or equality come FAR behind that question.
Caveat: I have no idea what those percentages would be... I just think we ought to know before we do anything.
I would like to see a poll with this question asked of the military vets of this forum.
What are we supposed to do? Hide LGBT people under the rug, pretend they don't exist. If they live on base are they supposed to hide their partners? Are they supposed to not have a love life? It's hard to keep this stuff hidden.What is to distrust when the problem is not known? If you don't know about something, you can't be afraid/paranoid/homophobic/etc.
Rumors don't spread. Soldiers live their lives and move on. Nobody gives a **** until the problem is KNOWN.
Its not nonsense to those who you want to impose your sense of "fair" and "politically correct" nonsense on. Im not so sure how this difference will help society as a whole either.
What are we supposed to do? Hide LGBT people under the rug, pretend they don't exist. If they live on base are they supposed to hide their partners? Are they supposed to not have a love life? It's hard to keep this stuff hidden.
You're looking at the situation from the unknowing straight solider perspective. Why not take a look at the situation from the shoes of the gay soldier. Living in fear of being found out, trying to hide your personal life, being afraid of being attacked by some homophobe who finds out. Thats what DADT does.
Oh, and I find it disturbing you called homosexuality a "problem"
It's not "political correct" nonsense. It's equality, having the same rights for all is something we should strive for. It will help society because people will look at these soldiers,and see people from all walks of life. White, black, asian, Native American, gay, straight, woman, and men, and people will see that we aren't so different. We're all blood, and flesh, and if those people can fight for our country, then their all right. It's a trickle down effect of acceptance.
Like I've said before, the problem is with the homophobes. NOT the LGBT soldiers.
I think gays should be allowed to serve, but we should keep DADT. why is it so important to disclose one's sexual orientation?
What are we supposed to do? Hide LGBT people under the rug, pretend they don't exist. If they live on base are they supposed to hide their partners? Are they supposed to not have a love life? It's hard to keep this stuff hidden.
You're looking at the situation from the unknowing straight solider perspective. Why not take a look at the situation from the shoes of the gay soldier. Living in fear of being found out, trying to hide your personal life, being afraid of being attacked by some homophobe who finds out. Thats what DADT does.
Oh, and I find it disturbing you called homosexuality a "problem"
It's not "political correct" nonsense. It's equality, having the same rights for all is something we should strive for. It will help society because people will look at these soldiers,and see people from all walks of life. White, black, asian, Native American, gay, straight, woman, and men, and people will see that we aren't so different. We're all blood, and flesh, and if those people can fight for our country, then their all right. It's a trickle down effect of acceptance.
Like I've said before, the problem is with the homophobes. NOT the LGBT soldiers.
your star,
Your position is idealistic. If there is one place we should refrain from idealism it is in the military.
because proponents don't actually care about whether gays are serving or not; they care about making a political point and using the military to do it.
your star,
Your position is idealistic. If there is one place we should refrain from idealism it is in the military.
because proponents don't actually care about whether gays are serving or not; they care about making a political point and using the military to do it.
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