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Gary Johnson: On the Issues: Would you vote for him?

You can't be serious, but if you are...

Here is how:

Voting for someone who has no chance is a nice gesture, but not going to achieve your desired result... Namely elect someone with the most ideas/values you embrace.

You're Libertarian... Grrrreat... I line up close to Milton Friedman, and the person and party closest to that has a guy named Trump as their nominee.

You vote for Mr. Invisible, and you're costing the candidate who has the chance to employ the most ideas you support... Your vote.

In essence, you're giving Criminal Hillary, someone who is far from compatible with Libertarian beliefs your support... By denying Trump your vote. I'd encourage that all day long if I were Criminal Clinton.

Now, if you were a Leftist... I'd say vote for the Greenie or Communist... Why? Because you're costing Criminal Hillary a vote.

When I decide to not vote for Trump I am not doing anything for Clinton nor am I doing anything for Trump. I'm simply saying that I refuse to offer my support for a man that I personally find contemptible. Not voting for someone is simply not offering them your support in winning the office they are running for. Now, if I decide to vote for another candidate I would be negatively impacting his chances, but only in so much as offering my assistance to an opposing candidate. All the other candidates in the field will have the same amount of votes they would have had if I did nothing at all.
 
What if neither candidate has ideas/values one embraces? Are they still "taking a vote" from the rich kid?

That's not reality.

Then you need to do a bit more homework.
 
No I wont be voting for him. ALl things considered he isnt horrible lol

That being said since I dont think Trump has a shot at winning Im voting 3rd party though just haven't decided who yet
 
When I decide to not vote for Trump I am not doing anything for Clinton nor am I doing anything for Trump. I'm simply saying that I refuse to offer my support for a man that I personally find contemptible. Not voting for someone is simply not offering them your support in winning the office they are running for. Now, if I decide to vote for another candidate I would be negatively impacting his chances, but only in so much as offering my assistance to an opposing candidate. All the other candidates in the field will have the same amount of votes they would have had if I did nothing at all.

If you vote for Mr. Invisible because that is what you believe in, you're throwing your vote away by not voting for the candidate who has a shot to implement the type of society you prefer.

You are scoring one for Criminal Hillary.

If I were Criminal Hillary, I'd wish for many just like you. The more the better. Criminal Hillary understands this too, as her Felonious Husband never got over 50% of the vote and won thanks to Perot.
 
That's not reality.

Then you need to do a bit more homework.

It is reality. I will not vote for Trump nor Hillary, neither can be trusted, neither has a platform that resembles mine. As such, I'm voting for Johnson, who does have a political platform that resembles mine.
 
If you vote for Mr. Invisible because that is what you believe in, you're throwing your vote away by not voting for the candidate who has a shot to implement the type of society you prefer.

Yeah, except Trump isn't going to do that.
 
It is reality. I will not vote for Trump nor Hillary, neither can be trusted, neither has a platform that resembles mine. As such, I'm voting for Johnson, who does have a political platform that resembles mine.

Knowing full well that Trump is closer to Mr. Invisible than Criminal Hillary could ever be... Even in her best days of deceit.

Your is just a throw away vote... And Criminal Hillary thanks you.
 
No, you're describing people doing things they'd rather do than the work it takes to educate themselves on the process. I'm busy; I'm pressed for time. I can do it. Everyone else can, too. It, after all, affects their daily lives.

But they don't want to.

Tell me: what's your workable, practical solution for motivating enough people to give enough time and passion about the political process such that their awareness would override the two party system, entrenched lobbyists and mass propaganda funded in the range from tens to hundreds of millions of dollars (and even more than that once _all_ limits on money in politics are rescinded)?

No, it can; you simply don't want it to.

But twice, you've said the government will have to "divorce" itself from "law." No idea what you mean by this, but if you mean criminal law enforcement, that's not something I'm even talking about. It's one of the silly things people bring up when they try to argue against libertarians. No one -- no one -- is talking about shutting down law enforcement or the courts.

Nobody argued for that.

No one said a thing about the "wholesale destruction of government." You should probably learn what libertarian philosophy is before you speak against it.

It cannot happen in the foreseeable future because, as stated, there simply isn't the political or popular will to effect these reversions/devolutions. If you can provide me with data to the contrary I would be happy to change my perspective on the matter.

Second, by divorce itself from the creation and enforcement of law, I mean precisely that. You may not argue for it specifically, but the fact is that the ability to fashion and enact law clearly has substantial economic ramifications which in turn means that in order to prevent that power from incentivizing the subversion of government, you would either have to eliminate or severely curtail its ability to draft law _or_ eliminate or severely curtail the ability of private actors to subvert the government. The decision for me is a rather obvious one.

I am unfortunately very familiar with the tenants of the Libertarian philosophy; the only iteration that has ever made an iota of sense is the one that advocates for the minimum government necessary, but that is of course highly subjective.


I don't have a clue what you think you mean by this. Go ask 50, 100, 500, people if they, using these words, "support the wholesale elimination of government subcontracting"; all of them will stare at you blankly. This is some canard you've pretty much made up wholesale. No one cares. Whatever you mean by it.

I.e. government contracts that provide employment for tens of millions via various industries and infrastructure. I'm sure you'd find broad support against wasteful pork barrel spending, myself included, but that is not what I am referring to; there is government spending on such things that yields clear material benefits (the internet for example, infrastructure spending in general, etc).

There was never a "wild west" of such things. Besides, you said it can't happen, and even here, you admit it did.

Yes, there was indeed a wild west where you had literal snake oil salesmen and people pushing radium, cocaine and moonshine as miracle cures when drugs and medical supplies for example, were completely unregulated. Never is a long time, but can reversion to such a backwards state occur in the foreseeable future? Absolutely not. The support factually is not there.

But you're STILL arguing from the basis of what people want. Do you understand that you're doing this? I don't see that you do.

Yes, because people clearly do _not_ want mass deregulation and a government that cannot make or enforce laws.

You're arguing "we must give the government vast power in order to keep power from falling to a small group of elite." Try thinking about that for more than five minutes.

No, quite contrary to your strawman, I'm arguing we institute laws that prevent a small group of elite from suborning democratic governments which put stringent limits on lobbying and campaign finance, and reduce the dependency of political parties on private money; laws that have been shown to work in the rest of the first world.
 
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Knowing full well that Trump is closer to Mr. Invisible than Criminal Hillary could ever be... Even in her best days of deceit.

Your is just a throw away vote... And Criminal Hillary thanks you.

No he's not. Trump is a corporate blowhard looking to be viewed as some form of super hero. He's one step away from making a propaganda film of him riding around on a white horse while people around him shower him with adoration.

he's not going to do any of the things I'd like to see. He's a threat to the Republic and a national embarrassment.

So throw out whatever ridiculous propaganda you want, but there's nothing positive or redeeming about Trump, he doesn't have a political platform that overlaps mine, he has no experience with elected office, he is too much of an egomaniac to listen to anyone, and so much an egomaniac that he'll think himself able to handle situations that he cannot. As bad as Hillary will be, Trump will be worse.
 
Tell me: what's your workable, practical solution for motivating enough people to give enough time and passion about the political process such that their awareness would override the two party system, entrenched lobbyists and mass propaganda funded in the range from tens to hundreds of millions of dollars (and even more than that once _all_ limits on money in politics are rescinded)?







It cannot happen in the foreseeable future because, as stated, there simply isn't the political or popular will to effect these reversions/devolutions. If you can provide me with data to the contrary I would be happy to change my perspective on the matter.

Second, by divorce itself from the creation and enforcement of law, I mean precisely that. You may not argue for it specifically, but the fact is that the ability to fashion and enact law clearly has substantial economic ramifications which in turn means that in order to prevent that power from incentivizing the subversion of government, you would either have to eliminate or severely curtail its ability to draft law _or_ eliminate or severely curtail the ability of private actors to subvert the government. The decision for me is a rather obvious one.

I am unfortunately very familiar with the tenants of the Libertarian philosophy; the only iteration that has ever made an iota of sense is the one that advocates for the minimum government necessary, but that is of course highly subjective.




I.e. government contracts that provide employment for tens of millions via various industries and infrastructure. I'm sure you'd find broad support against wasteful pork barrel spending, myself included, but that is not what I am referring to; there is government spending on such things that yields clear material benefits (the internet for example, infrastructure spending in general, etc).



Yes, there was indeed a wild west where you had literal snake oil salesmen and people pushing radium, cocaine and moonshine as miracle cures when drugs and medical supplies for example, were completely unregulated. Never is a long time, but can reversion to such a backwards state occur in the foreseeable future? Absolutely not. The support factually is not there.



Yes, because people clearly do _not_ want mass deregulation and a government that cannot make or enforce laws.

^^^
"It can't happen because I don't want it to, and I don't have the imagination to conceive how it could happen besides."


No, quite contrary to your strawman, I'm arguing we institute laws that prevent a small group of elite from suborning democratic governments which put stringent limits on lobbying and campaign finance, and reduce the dependency of political parties on private money; laws that have been shown to work in the rest of the first world.

Oh, right, because the "rest of the first world" doesn't have a smidgen of corruption in government, OR plutocracy.

Well, you're only going to see what you want to see, so I'll leave you to it.
 
OK, and if you feel that is the case, write in Mickey Mouse.

I think that Johnson can affect positive changes within the Republic, I do not think that is true of either Hillary or Trump. Johnson has the political platform that best matches mine and is the only candidate currently who I can give my consent and sovereignty to.

But Mickey Mouse cannot win and neither can Gary Johnson. He can't affect positive change on anything unless he wins the election, which we all know is not going to happen. And whether you "give your consent and sovereignty" to Hillary or Trump or not, one of them is going to wind up leading this nation for the next four years. You are going to live under their policies whether you like it or not. You don't get special dispensation to ignore the bad things they cause because you voted for someone else.
 
Knowing full well that Trump is closer to Mr. Invisible than Criminal Hillary could ever be... Even in her best days of deceit.

Your is just a throw away vote... And Criminal Hillary thanks you.

He's closer to Hillary than Johnson.
 
But Mickey Mouse cannot win and neither can Gary Johnson. He can't affect positive change on anything unless he wins the election, which we all know is not going to happen. And whether you "give your consent and sovereignty" to Hillary or Trump or not, one of them is going to wind up leading this nation for the next four years. You are going to live under their policies whether you like it or not. You don't get special dispensation to ignore the bad things they cause because you voted for someone else.

Yes know, it changes nothing. Johnson is the only candidate I can endorse, Hillary and Trump are toxic to the Republic and the freedom and liberty of The People.
 
Yes know, it changes nothing. Johnson is the only candidate I can endorse, Hillary and Trump are toxic to the Republic and the freedom and liberty of The People.

Fine by me, your vote changes nothing.
 
Gary Johnson on the Issues

Just wondering how many people would actually support him over the establishment candidates? Personally? I HATE Trump. As a republican, I just cannot bring myself to vote for him. He is a Democrat to me. And an authoritarian. Not something I want again in the presidency.

So I have posted this up with his record. Take a peak. Do you see yourself agreeing with him on his stances? Or do you have too much of a problem with his social or fiscal views? Or does he have to reach a certain amount in polls for you to consider him?


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.

I left the GOP probably 25 years ago, and have voted libertarian ever since. My goal isn't to get the specific libertarian elected, but to give hope to other people who feel trapped in a two-party system where self-interest seems to trump every thing else. I serve to be part of the "certain amount in polls" to get other people to believe.

Social Security is the lighting rod issue for me. Johnson is exactly like Trump and Clinton, neither of whom seem to grasp the size of the problem. Both of whom will do nothing.
 
He's closer to Hillary than Johnson.

Nice try, but Trump is closer to Mr. Invisible... And even Criminal Hillary knows it.

Again... You may as well call yourself a Criminal Hillary supporter, as that's who you're assisting.
 
No he's not. Trump is a corporate blowhard looking to be viewed as some form of super hero. He's one step away from making a propaganda film of him riding around on a white horse while people around him shower him with adoration.

he's not going to do any of the things I'd like to see. He's a threat to the Republic and a national embarrassment.

So throw out whatever ridiculous propaganda you want, but there's nothing positive or redeeming about Trump, he doesn't have a political platform that overlaps mine, he has no experience with elected office, he is too much of an egomaniac to listen to anyone, and so much an egomaniac that he'll think himself able to handle situations that he cannot. As bad as Hillary will be, Trump will be worse.

You're a Leftist... And you sound like one. So... It's nice you're voting for Mr. Invisible.

Good on ya mate.
 
Nice try, but Trump is closer to Mr. Invisible.

Hahahaha, no he's not. Trump will grow the government, grow our wars, grow big brother, grow pro-corporate subsidies and policies, etc. Hillary will do the same.
 
You're a Leftist... And you sound like one. So... It's nice you're voting for Mr. Invisible.

Good on ya mate.

Aww, is that all that's left in your tank? Just some "you're a leftist" blah blah blah, pointless partisan propaganda?

It is nice that I'm voting for Johnson, he's the only small government candidate out there.
 
Yeah, except Trump isn't going to do that.

Well... Your real choice is Trump or Criminal Hillary... And there is a massive difference.

One will implement more of your beliefs.

Either way... You're tossing your vote. I'm hoping you're a standard Leftist voter who's tossing it away.

Thems my type of Leftist. :)
 
Well... Your real choice is Trump or Criminal Hillary... And there is a massive difference.

One will implement more of your beliefs.

Either way... You're tossing your vote. I'm hoping you're a standard Leftist voter who's tossing it away.

Thems my type of Leftist. :)

Neither of them are interested in anything I believe.
 
Aww, is that all that's left in your tank? Just some "you're a leftist" blah blah blah, pointless partisan propaganda?

It is nice that I'm voting for Johnson, he's the only small government candidate out there.

Your post earlier sounded like an unhinged Leftist.

I'm happy you're voting for Mr. Invisible.
 
Your post earlier sounded like an unhinged Leftist.

I'm happy you're voting for Mr. Invisible.

So am I, he's the only small government candidate out there, and we need to reign in the government.
 
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