Gabby Giffords: Expanding Background Checks Only the ‘First Step’

[Bucky]

So you are FOR imposing the new Jim Crow laws.
Shame on you....

(so glad I could use that line)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4181

We already tax guns.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Personally, we need a federal database and registry. Tax those individuals that buy guns and use that money for gun safety.

We pay taxes when we purchase firearms. What would be the justification for an additional tax?

Edit - Nevermind. I see you’ve already supplied your socialist reply.

 

[TurtleDude]

We already have in law a $750 million excise tax on the import of guns and ammunition.

Handguns are taxed at 10%
Other guns are taxed at 11%



https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4181

Are you saying that is unconstitutional?

they should be but the R-P tax is designed to fund natural resources.

 

[Rucker61]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4181

We already tax guns.

So why do we need more taxes on guns? Why didn't the bill simply reallocate those existing tax revenues?

Because the new taxes are meant to discourage the lawful purchase and use of firearms and ammunition? Why on earth would a 50% tax on ammo be suggested for any other reason? Do criminals care how much ammo costs?

 

[Chillfolks]

We pay taxes when we purchase firearms. What would be the justification for an additional tax?

Charging people extra to exercise the rights he doesn't like is the justification.

 

[VanceMack]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4181

We already tax guns.

But YOU want to impose an additional and onerous tax...one that will be punitive especially to lower income individuals. Why would you think you could get away with an unconstitutional attack on lower income individuals, many of whom happen to be minority?

 

[VanceMack]

use that money for gun safety.

What specifically does that even mean and what specific problem do you think you will solve???

 

[Bucky]

But YOU want to impose an additional and onerous tax...one that will be punitive especially to lower income individuals. Why would you think you could get away with an unconstitutional attack on lower income individuals, many of whom happen to be minority?

We can create a hardship exception.

A lower income individual would barely suffer a prick from such a tax. Stop making things up.

 

[Bucky]

What specifically does that even mean and what specific problem do you think you will solve???

Gun safety and training, what do you need clarification on??? It is in the name.

 

[VanceMack]

Gun safety and training, what do you need clarification on??? It is in the name.

Thats blather. It means nothing.

 

[VanceMack]

We can create a hardship exception.

A lower income individual would barely suffer a prick from such a tax. Stop making things up.

Ah...so now you are discriminating.

 

[Bucky]

What specifically does that even mean and what specific problem do you think you will solve???

Vance,

It seems pretty common sense that you would need some sort of training before being issued a gun license.

 

[Bucky]

Ah...so now you are discriminating.

creating a hardship exception for people without the means to pay is discrimination?

That's just stupid. That like saying food stamps is discrimination.

 

[VanceMack]

Vance,

It seems pretty common sense that you would need some sort of training before being issued a gun license.

Bucky...there is a 240 year history of gun ownership in this country with currently some 120-130 million gun owners owning over 300 million firearms with no statistically measurable problems. Your 'common sense' rhetorical bull**** is just that. MOST people get gun training from their families and friends. those that want it get it. You cant mandate and legislate gun safety.

I know your tendency. I implore you...JUST THIS ONCE. Stop. THINK. Realize that all you are doing is talking out of your ass fabricating a non solution for a non problem and just admit it. Its OK. No one will think the worse of you. Hell...you might even rise up a notch or two in the view of others for once.

 

[iguanaman]

which is stupid since the the vast majority of damages from firearms misuse are perpetrated by people who cannot and do not buy guns legally. The registry is unconstitutional when applied to such people anyway.

its like taxing people who don't drink for the damage caused by drunk drivers

Where do you think criminals get their guns? Most guns used in crime were sold "legally" in strawman purchases or come from illicit FFL dealers. Gun registration would virtually eliminate those sources

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

 

[Bucky]

Bucky...there is a 240 year history of gun ownership in this country with currently some 120-130 million gun owners owning over 300 million firearms with no statistically measurable problems. Your 'common sense' rhetorical bull**** is just that. MOST people get gun training from their families and friends. those that want it get it. You cant mandate and legislate gun safety.

I know your tendency. I implore you...JUST THIS ONCE. Stop. THINK. Realize that all you are doing is talking out of your ass fabricating a non solution for a non problem and just admit it. Its OK. No one will think the worse of you. Hell...you might even rise up a notch or two in the view of others for once.

You are
C
R
A
Z
Y

Gun ownership isn't some sort human entitlement... everything has regulation.

You need training before you are given a driver's license.

Using a gun isn't equivalent to using your penis.

 

[VanceMack]

You are
C
R
A
Z
Y

Gun ownership isn't some sort human entitlement... everything has regulation.

You need training before you are given a driver's license.

Using a gun isn't equivalent to using your penis.

I didnt have much hope but I thought it would be worth a shot.

 

[TurtleDude]

Where do you think criminals get their guns? Most guns used in crime were sold legally in strawman purchases or come from illicit FFL dealers. Gun registration would virtually eliminate those sources



https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

I guess you are ignorant of this fact-the original purchaser fills out a form 4473 and the ATF can find that out. Yet straw purchasers are almost never prosecuted. SO lets enforce laws we have rather than passing more just so you gun banners will pretend you have done something (when your real goal is harassing honest owners)

 

[iguanaman]

Bucky...there is a 240 year history of gun ownership in this country with currently some 120-130 million gun owners owning over 300 million firearms with no statistically measurable problems. Your 'common sense' rhetorical bull**** is just that. MOST people get gun training from their families and friends. those that want it get it. You cant mandate and legislate gun safety.

I know your tendency. I implore you...JUST THIS ONCE. Stop. THINK. Realize that all you are doing is talking out of your ass fabricating a non solution for a non problem and just admit it. Its OK. No one will think the worse of you. Hell...you might even rise up a notch or two in the view of others for once.

The Sandy Hook shooters mother purchased her AR-15 legally and was not even informed that keeping a firearm in a household with a mentally unstable young male is very dangerous. Don't you think we can at least deal with that problem?

 

[Bucky]

I didnt have much hope but I thought it would be worth a shot.

You are equating using a gun as some sort of right, which it isn't. You think a person should not be legally required to have gun training in order to get a gun license.

It is as almost you are equating a person being able to use a gun to a person being able to have sex. But guess what? There are laws against rape and incest. A person cannot just arbitrarily have sex with anyone they want.

Using a gun isn't some sort of codified right.

 

[iguanaman]

I guess you are ignorant of this fact-the original purchaser fills out a form 4473 and the ATF can find that out. Yet straw purchasers are almost never prosecuted. SO lets enforce laws we have rather than passing more just so you gun banners will pretend you have done something (when your real goal is harassing honest owners)

It requires effective State laws to prosecute straw purchasers since Federal laws are rarely enforced. In Arizona for instance it was proven in "Fast and Furious" that State prosecutors could rule that gun buyers may resell their guns in the parking lot of the gun store despite signing form 4473.

A new study from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found that prosecutions in Pennsylvania for violating the state’s straw purchase law increased by nearly 16 times following the 2012 passage of a law requiring a mandatory minimum five-year sentence for individuals convicted of multiple straw purchase violations. So-called straw purchases involve a prohibited person, such as someone with a criminal record, enlisting the aid of another person to buy the firearm on their behalf.

In Maryland, prosecutions for background check violations decreased by nearly half following the 2006 Chow v. State of Maryland decision that concluded that temporary gratuitous loans of firearms, where no money changed hands, were not ‘transfers.’ Following this decision, state prosecutors had to prove that a firearm recovered from someone other than the registered purchaser had been permanently transferred, not merely loaned.

https://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2018/prosecuting-background-check-and-straw-purchase-violations-depends-on-state-laws.html

 

[Tom Horn]

I still have one unexplained question about her. What the hell was an 8 year old girl from Maryland doing hanging out at a taco stand with this witch for?

 

[Rucker61]

You are equating using a gun as some sort of right, which it isn't. You think a person should not be legally required to have gun training in order to get a gun license.

It is as almost you are equating a person being able to use a gun to a person being able to have sex. But guess what? There are laws against rape and incest. A person cannot just arbitrarily have sex with anyone they want.

Using a gun isn't some sort of codified right.

It is in the United States.

 

[zsu2357]

We have more than enough gun laws.

But,but I was under the impression that just one more gun law was worth it,if it just saved one child's life? After all look at all the children that were saved by the NFA of 1934. Oooo of note also the Gun Control Acts of 68 and 86. They did nothing.

 

[Rucker61]

We pay taxes when we purchase firearms. What would be the justification for an additional tax?

Edit - Nevermind. I see you’ve already supplied your socialist reply.

From the Bill:

"(A) Thirty-five percent of such amounts shall be available for community-oriented policing services grants for the hiring and rehiring of additional career law enforcement officers under section 1701(b) of title I of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (42 U.S.C. 3796dd(b)). States using funds for school resource officers shall include training, protections, and monitoring to ensure that school resource officers are used to improve school safety and climate, and promote positive reform in student suspensions, expulsions, and referrals to the juvenile or criminal justice systems.

(B) Thirty-five percent of such amounts shall be available for the Project Safe Neighborhoods, as authorized by the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2017 (Public Law 115–31), 131 Stat. 135, 203.

(C) Ten percent of such amounts shall be available for the Centers for Disease Control National Center for Injury Prevention and Control for purposes of research on gun violence and its prevention.

(D) Five percent of such amounts shall be available for the National Criminal History Improvement Program authorized under section 302(c) of title I of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (42 U.S.C. 3732(c)).

(E) Five percent of such amounts shall be available for the NICS Act Record Improvement Program authorized under section 301 of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (18 U.S.C. 922 note).

(F) Five percent for the Community-Based Violence Prevention Field-Initiated Research and Evaluation Program of the Department of Justice.

(G) Five percent of such amounts shall be available for the Secretary of Education to provide directed grants and technical assistance to schools eligible for or receiving grants under part A of title I of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to develop and implement comprehensive, evidence-based local or regional strategies (such as positive behavior interventions and supports, social and emotional learning, and restorative justice programs) to improve school climate, reduce the use of exclusionary school discipline, and decrease the number of youth entering the juvenile and criminal justice systems."