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funding for religious schools

weaver2 said:
Have you visited some of America's fundamentalist church schools? They are intolerant, anti-woman, anti-democracy, anti-science, and pro-theocracy.
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Do they teach that apostates should be sentenced to death? Do they advocate the stoning of women who have been raped? Do any of their pupils go on to be terrorists who kill random fellow citizens?

But even if the answer to these question is NO imo they should be closed.
 
TheParser said:
But if you come to the States, expressing such opinions publicly will get you in BIG trouble.
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Oh dear. I thought free speech was allowed in the US - some of our fellow DPers often boast about the First Amendment.
 
Gateman_Wen said:
Like catholicism.
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Thankfully Catholicism - and the rest of Christianity - is but a pale shadow of the cruel and dangerous cult it used be. It is no longer a serious threat to 'Western' values such as tolerance, democracy and freedom.
 
aociswundumho said:
Of course they do, and if leftists don't want government funding religious schools, then parents who choose to send their kids to a religious school should have the option to opt out of the government-run school system entirely - which includes them paying no taxes towards government-run schools.
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So, if there's something I don't want to pay for, I should opt out and not have to pay for it?

Stop and think about the ramifications for a moment....
 
Sweden said:
Islam is doctrinaire, intolerant, anti-women and anti-democracy. Children should be protect from indoctrination by this unjust and cruel legal system and political program posing as a 'religion'.
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Wrong, you have no right to seize people’s children and strip them of their identity.
 
Sweden said:
Thankfully Catholicism - and the rest of Christianity - is but a pale shadow of the cruel and dangerous cult it used be. It is no longer a serious threat to 'Western' values such as tolerance, democracy and freedom.
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The secularists and their selfish infertile lifestyle will be near extinct in 50 years. The quiverful adjacent cult in Finland who’s name escapes me right now is the only group in Finland having babies
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Wrong, you have no right to seize people’s children and strip them of their identity.
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I have never seized anyone's children. Honestly. That may be a common occurrence in Seattle, for all I know, but not in any place I have lived.
 
Sweden said:
I have never seized anyone's children. Honestly. That may be a common occurrence in Seattle, for all I know, but not in any place I have lived.
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You advocate for it, state provided public schools are simply a soft seizure of children.
 
Sweden said:
Oh dear. I thought free speech was allowed in the US - some of our fellow DPers often boast about the First Amendment.
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I think that they refer to the theory that the First Amendment allows you to stand up in the park and voice your opinion.

Of course, if you do, some people listening to you might chase you out of the park -- or worse.

And if you have the money, you can start your own newspaper or magazine -- if anyone will buy it.

But they explain that the First Amendment does NOT mean a website or a print newspaper is obligated to let you use it to express your opinion.

In the real world, people learn very fast what they can say in public and what they had better not say.

To be fair, that is the situation in every country.

Can you imagine what would happen to someone in China who spoke in a park about democracy? And I am guessing that in Sweden, one could get in trouble if s/he spoke unkindly about immigrants.
 
Sweden said:
Thankfully Catholicism - and the rest of Christianity - is but a pale shadow of the cruel and dangerous cult it used be. It is no longer a serious threat to 'Western' values such as tolerance, democracy and freedom.
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Maybe not in Sweden...
 
EMNofSeattle said:
You advocate for it, state provided public schools are simply a soft seizure of children.
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In your opinion. In mine laws obliging all children to attend school, passed in all civilised countries in the 19th century, were a great advance. Higher education maybe somewhat over-rated but basic primary education is not.
 
Sweden said:
In your opinion. In mine laws obliging all children to attend school, passed in all civilised countries in the 19th century, were a great advance. Higher education maybe somewhat over-rated but basic primary education is not.
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People are more miserable when they are given secular education
 
I believe the families and children had a choice to go to a non-religious school, no? I find it easier to forgo all religious affiliation to not make it appear as if the government will support a certain religion, and ensure any discrepancies between funding/requirements will not be caused by such. However, if they want to give funding to all religious schools unbiasedly then sure but... it gets complicated. Are the schools forbidden from getting alternative sources of funding from churches/parishes? Because it seems hard to divorce themselves from that. If not forbidden, how do we determine what amount is appropriate for such alternately/additionally funded schools as opposed to ones without? Is the state/federal funding money allowed to be spent on religious aspects of the school?

I have to think that children should have basic education. I personally don't feel kids are so bad off necessarily in non-religious schools. No one particular "way of thinking / world view" is mandated is public school. They get the educating job done, even if not perfectly. I think the way it is/was is fine. But if families do want religion or want a religious view to be the undertone of the school, and to be encouraged and taught, then I suppose they can. I just want to make it fair for everyone paying.
 
ChocoChipCookie said:
I believe the families and children had a choice to go to a non-religious school, no? I find it easier to forgo all religious affiliation to not make it appear as if the government will support a certain religion, and ensure any discrepancies between funding/requirements will not be caused by such. However, if they want to give funding to all religious schools unbiasedly then sure but... it gets complicated. Are the schools forbidden from getting alternative sources of funding from churches/parishes? Because it seems hard to divorce themselves from that. If not forbidden, how do we determine what amount is appropriate for such alternately/additionally funded schools as opposed to ones without? Is the state/federal funding money allowed to be spent on religious aspects of the school?

I have to think that children should have basic education. I personally don't feel kids are so bad off necessarily in non-religious schools. No one particular "way of thinking / world view" is mandated is public school. They get the educating job done, even if not perfectly. I think the way it is/was is fine. But if families do want religion or want a religious view to be the undertone of the school, and to be encouraged and taught, then I suppose they can. I just want to make it fair for everyone paying.
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That’s not true at all. Most public schools for example teach that all human beings are fully equal, and they most not teach that one religion is true, or that homosexuals engage in acts which are unequal to opposite sex couples. If you observe differences in behavior between different ethnic groups and speak out loud about it you can be disciplined. Schools do teach a world view. You may believe the correct worldview, fair enough, but that’s still a way of looking at the world
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That’s not true at all. Most public schools for example teach that all human beings are fully equal, and they most not teach that one religion is true, or that homosexuals engage in acts which are unequal to opposite sex couples. If you observe differences in behavior between different ethnic groups and speak out loud about it you can be disciplined. Schools do teach a world view. You may believe the correct worldview, fair enough, but that’s still a way of looking at the world
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The not teaching about a religion or other such things I don't know count though as they are specifically not taught I think? I more so had thought of the equality of human beings and the politeness/niceties of not speaking out loud about behavior differences as by products of having so many different people in one place in order to keep the peace, not necessarily mandated points by the school? But you are right, that is a worldview that is taught.
 
Sweden said:
Do they teach that apostates should be sentenced to death? Do they advocate the stoning of women who have been raped? Do any of their pupils go on to be terrorists who kill random fellow citizens?

But even if the answer to these question is NO imo they should be closed.
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Okay, the “Party” from “Oceania,” the freedom depriving, thought police from your illiberalism is exactly why the freedoms enumerated in the 1st amendment exist.

Careful, religious zealots seize power as the “Party” in “Oceania” and your freedom to write the above is suddenly criminal. After all, thought police, illiberalism sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
 
aociswundumho said:
Get government out of education, everyone pays for their own shit, and the entire problem goes away.
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Everyone pays when the government does education. Whats your problem?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
People are more miserable when they are given secular education
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The happiest people in the world live where education is secular. The most miserable people in the world live where education is religious.
 
Grand Mal said:
The happiest people in the world live where education is secular.
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The happiest people where polls are taken and people self report being happy are a handful of outlier countries in the north of Europe. And in any event people in Nordic countries still practice a wierd quasi Christian LARP where they have all the shops closed on sundays and baptize everyone into the state church.
Grand Mal said:
The most miserable people in the world live where education is religious.
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That’s not true at all.
 
weaver2 said:
Have you visited some of America's fundamentalist church schools? They are intolerant, anti-woman, anti-democracy, anti-science, and pro-theocracy.
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Sounds really based.
 
aociswundumho said:
Get government out of education, everyone pays for their own shit, and the entire problem goes away.
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And if people are too poor to send their kids to school, they can send them to work in unregulated factories and sweatshops and brothels like in the good ole free market days, right?
 
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