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From whence do the ethical values of atheists derive?

smallvoice said:
Well, you certainly adhere to the liberal thought pattern. You don't have anything "right".

You think that killing a fetus is okay on demand?I just want to make sure that I'm getting it right.
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Ummm.....you are the one back there who said that it was fine to kill a fetus in certain conditions.
 
Social conditioning combined with reason and empathy. I don't need ancient books that promote murder and slavery to have a strong code of morals and ethics.
 
watsup said:
Ummm.....you are the one back there who said that it was fine to kill a fetus in certain conditions.
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You don’t have a problem with doing it on demand, so what’s your point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
watsup said:
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.
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I haven't dug through the entire thread, but it's a shame such a reasonable and rational question got bogged down so quickly in biblical moralism. So, I'm going to, instead, give my personal response to the initial query:

I believe nearly all of us are born with inherent empathetic impulses. I make exception for those who are legitimately defective in that department (a rarity, I assert). As someone has noted, studies have hinted that empathy/right and wrong are instinctual traits. Therefore, most of our ethical tendencies are the result of "nurture". Most of us grow up in generally ethical environments. Some are based upon religious tenets, and much are not. We live in a world of laws and relationships. Those also influence our development.

Most antisocial behavior is a consequence of one's developmental conditions. I believe most of it becomes fixed early in our development. Some of it is the result of an ethically ambiguous environment, or particularly strong formative events - abuse, neglect and such. But even in these environments most people still exhibit a discernable "moral compass".

Most of us in our adolescent years search for meaning and relevance in our lives, as we seek independence from our parents. Some find it in religious observance, others in other social constructs - law, philosophy, science. I was "raised" a Methodist, but outgrew the paternal and directive tenets of "faith". I found my touchstone in the law, and moral philosophy, which allowed me to shed the trappings of religious observance and focus on the ethical principles that undergird them (and many religions). I've found the tenets of ethical humanism to be most profound and instructive.
 
NWRatCon said:
I haven't dug through the entire thread, but it's a shame such a reasonable and rational question got bogged down so quickly in biblical moralism. So, I'm going to, instead, give my personal response to the initial query:

I believe nearly all of us are born with inherent empathetic impulses. I make exception for those who are legitimately defective in that department (a rarity, I assert). As someone has noted, studies have hinted that empathy/right and wrong are instinctual traits. Therefore, most of our ethical tendencies are the result of "nurture". Most of us grow up in generally ethical environments. Some are based upon religious tenets, and much are not. We live in a world of laws and relationships. Those also influence our development.

Most antisocial behavior is a consequence of one's developmental conditions. I believe most of it becomes fixed early in our development. Some of it is the result of an ethically ambiguous environment, or particularly strong formative events - abuse, neglect and such. But even in these environments most people still exhibit a discernable "moral compass".

Most of us in our adolescent years search for meaning and relevance in our lives, as we seek independence from our parents. Some find it in religious observance, others in other social constructs - law, philosophy, science. I was "raised" a Methodist, but outgrew the paternal and directive tenets of "faith". I found my touchstone in the law, and moral philosophy, which allowed me to shed the trappings of religious observance and focus on the ethical principles that undergird them (and many religions). I've found the tenets of ethical humanism to be most profound and instructive.
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Thoughtful.
 
smallvoice said:
Well, you certainly adhere to the liberal thought pattern. You don't have anything "right".

You think that killing a fetus is okay on demand?I just want to make sure that I'm getting it right.
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As long as it's the woman making her own choice, and it's before viability. or after viability and medical issues.
 
Everyone has an internal moral compass. Everyone knows right from wrong except those with mental illness like sociopaths and psychopaths. You don't need religion for that.

There are plenty of bad people sitting on the front row at your church. Many of those evangelicals are certainly not following Jesus teachings. Selfish self centered racist snobs.. How can they while supporting someone like trump?
 
rickc said:
Everyone has an internal moral compass. Everyone knows right from wrong except those with mental illness like sociopaths and psychopaths. You don't need religion for that.

There are plenty of bad people sitting on the front row at your church. Many of those evangelicals are certainly not following Jesus teachings. Selfish self centered racist snobs.. How can they while supporting someone like trump?
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Sociopath = Trump. Cares only about one person in the entire world.
 
watsup said:
Sociopath = Trump. Cares only about one person in the entire world.
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Considering he knew how deadly the covid 19 was, and he urged people NOT to wear makes, make the pure psychopath, not sociopath.
 
rickc said:
Everyone knows right from wrong except those with mental illness like sociopaths and psychopaths. You don't need religion for that.
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They usually know right from wrong too. They just don't feel guilt.
 
Fred C Dobbs II said:
That's what CS Lewis said and gave several examples of how we were created that way, and all very sensible.
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We were 'created" through billions of years of evolution, and "God" has nothing at all to do with it.
 
watsup said:
The evidence of science in this regard is indeed impressive.
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Indeed, and the advancements in quantum physics, mechanics and biology is very impressive but one doesn't exclude the other.
 
watsup said:
...from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.
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In case no one has mentioned it, philosophers have discussed that issue for a few centuries. Many of the ideas developed by religiously inclined philosophers and theologians are often adapted by secular ethicists. On the religious side, this includes Laozi, Siddhartha, Plato and Kant (to name very few). On the secular side we have Kǒng Qiū (or "Confucius" to many Westerners), Aristotle, Hume, Mill, Bentham, Rawls, Parfit (to name a very few).

The Blackwell Guide to Ethical Theory gives a pretty good overview of contemporary ethics.

Kenan Malik's The Quest for a Moral Compass is a good history of ethics over the centuries.
 
NWO_Spook said:
Social conditioning combined with reason and empathy. I don't need ancient books that promote murder and slavery to have a strong code of morals and ethics.
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The word strong is relative. I'm 100% sure that my moral and ethical codes are stricter than yours and that I would not consider those of yours strong at all.
 
Valery said:
The word strong is relative. I'm 100% sure that my moral and ethical codes are stricter than yours and that I would not consider those of yours strong at all.
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Well, you have absolutely no idea whether that is true or not and your opinion is entirely subjective. For one, I possess the strength of character to not make such an assumption about another person, whereas you lack the same and have no problem denouncing the morality of others without even knowing them. What kind of person does that?
 
Valery said:
The word strong is relative. I'm 100% sure that my moral and ethical codes are stricter than yours and that I would not consider those of yours strong at all.
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Strict and strong are very different concepts. That sounds very moralistic and judgmental of you, actually.
 
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